UN Panel: Gaza flotilla attack = war crime.

[Beerina]

Since you asked, the report claimed that Israeli blockade was illegal under international law, because there was a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

Ehm. What?

Last time I checked, the international law did not mandate unrestricted access to any place where a humanitarian crisis was taking place, wartime or not. Can you find the said law? At a minimum I'd require it to stipulate that no one may restrict access to a certain area (where Gaza would fit), for any reason and in any way, during war time.

It's hardly the only reason to seriously question the validity of the report. For instance, according to the article, the same body already blamed Israel before the investigation took place, so it is quite impossible to say it was impartial during the investigation.

McHrozni

IIRC, they had stopped a similar boat that was loaded with weapons recently.

It's easy to take it out of context...which is what I suspect some want to do for rhetorical purposes.

 

[bigjelmapro]

The comments are not mine. The itallicized part of the OP is all a quote from the Guardian article.

The first paragraph refers to the entire content of the panel's report.

The fourth paragraph is a specific quote from the report.

The report does conclude that torture took place (paras 178 to 182) and also that the passengers were treated inhumanely, by being compelled to urinate on themselves, for example.

The report made many swift conclusions on no evidence beyond that of eye-witness testimony, of which was conflicting in many regards.

You've obviously not read the actual report. I know, its long...

 

[McHrozni]

IIRC, they had stopped a similar boat that was loaded with weapons recently.

My point exactly. I realize why Hamas lovers would just love to see Israel blamed for war crimes over the blockade, but it's patently obvious to anyone with at least one brain cell that Israel is permitted to hold a naval blockade of an area whose ruling authority has announced an ethernal war against it. If the ship doesn't abide the blockade, bad things may happen to it. Doubly so if they want to prevent boarding. In fact, had Israel sunk the ship on the first sign of struggle, they'd be acting within legal bounds, I believe, as long as they'd pick up the survivors. A target that fights back is not a civilian target.

McHrozni

 

[Donal]

No I meant I wasn't aware that this was meant to be a recent discovery/[/quote]

Ok, now you are intentionally being obtuse.

Interesting strawman.

Are you using that word the same way EJ uses words like pogrom?

Everyone else in the region includes at the last count:

Several neighbouring countries.
Several non neighbouring countries.
An interesting selection of local rebel groups
An interesting selection of companies
Various bodies that have been recognised as the goverment of the DRC
Several intelligence agencies
Leopold II of Belgium

This admittedly doesn't set the bar for the UN very high but for the most part they appear to be achieving it.

Ummmm, you have an interesting concept of "peace keeping mission" which seems to include entities that don't care about either one or both sides of a conflict. As if subjugating the indigenous people so you can strip the area or arming one side to completely wipe out the other is even in the same ballpark as to what the UN was SPECIFICALLY CHARTERED TO DO!

Do you get that? This is their job and they are failing.

If you have a leaking pipe in your basement and your plumber muffs the job up, do you just throw your hands up and say "well, I didn't do any better, so I can't fault him"?

 

[JihadJane]

IIRC, they had stopped a similar boat that was loaded with weapons recently.

It's easy to take it out of context...which is what I suspect some want to do for rhetorical purposes.

Perhaps you could take the time to check whether or not your memory is serving you well.

 

[WildCat]

Perhaps you could take the time to check whether or not your memory is serving you well.

"This footage shows some of the weapons found on the Karin A. The Karin A vessel, loaded with weapons in Iran, bound for the Gaza Strip, sailed in the direction of Egypt with the intention of unloading its cargo in Egypt. Small fishing boats were meant to pick up the cargo and deliver it to the Gaza Strip. The ship, loaded with rockets, anti-tank rockets, and light arms, was seized on January 3rd, 2002 by Israeli Naval Commandos. There was 50 tons of weaponry on board the ship, which included 12 mile range Katyusha rockets, anti tank missiles, explosives and guns."

 

[SnakeTongue]

"This footage shows some of the weapons found on the Karin A. The Karin A vessel, loaded with weapons in Iran, bound for the Gaza Strip, sailed in the direction of Egypt with the intention of unloading its cargo in Egypt. Small fishing boats were meant to pick up the cargo and deliver it to the Gaza Strip. The ship, loaded with rockets, anti-tank rockets, and light arms, was seized on January 3rd, 2002 by Israeli Naval Commandos. There was 50 tons of weaponry on board the ship, which included 12 mile range Katyusha rockets, anti tank missiles, explosives and guns."

A video footage of 2002 published in Youtube in 2009.

No translation or date proof embed in the video.

Look like more a sales market... Are even signs in different languages.

IDF Productions, yeah!

 

[WildCat]

A video footage of 2002 published in Youtube in 2009.

No translation or date proof embed in the video.

Look like more a sales market... Are even signs in different languages.

IDF Productions, yeah!

It was big news at the time... maybe you were still a small child in 2002?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1819635.stm

The United States says Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has accepted responsibility for an attempt to smuggle arms on board a ship intercepted by Israel last month.

Until now, Mr Arafat had denied any knowledge of the affair, which cast a shadow over US efforts to implement a ceasefire between the two sides.

...Mr Arafat's comments came in a letter to US Secretary of State Colin Powell.

"He [Arafat] wrote me a letter three days ago on the Karine-A, accepting responsibility - not personal responsibility, but as chairman of the Palestinian Authority," Mr Powell told a Congressional committee.

Is that enough evidence for you ST?

 

[Stout]

Has anybody actually read the 56 page report of this UNHRC?

<snip>
The slew of assumptions and retrospective reasoning in this report are too many to post here. I don't quite understand how one could make some concrete conclusions based on such a lack of solid evidence.

Yes, clearly the mission was unfamiliar with law enforcement/military matters and is writing from an idealised, ivory tower perspective rather than basing their assumptions on any real world experience.

 

[JihadJane]

Yes, clearly the mission was unfamiliar with law enforcement/military matters and is writing from an idealised, ivory tower perspective rather than basing their assumptions on any real world experience.

Thanks for your content-free summary!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WildCat:

This footage shows some of the weapons found on the Karin A. The Karin A vessel, loaded with weapons in Iran, bound for the Gaza Strip, sailed in the direction of Egypt with the intention of unloading its cargo in Egypt.

In what way was this boat similar to the Freedom Flotilla?

2002 isn't recent.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

'Jewish boat activists: Israel treated us harshly'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/29/AR2010092901811.html

'UN panel backs critical Gaza flotilla raid report'

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...s-critical-gaza-flotilla-raid-report-1.316406

 

[Thunder]

Karin A..compared to a boat full of Jewish activists? wow.

that's like comparing Auschwitz to the Gaza Strip.

 

[WildCat]

In what way was this boat similar to the Freedom Flotilla?

Who said it was? The freedpm flotilla wasn't there to smuggle arms. Its aim was to end the blockade, so others (Iran, Syria) can send arms to Hamas.

2002 isn't recent.

Has Hamas stopped seeking weapons since then?

 

[SnakeTongue]

It was big news at the time... maybe you were still a small child in 2002?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1819635.stm

I was a young man dacing in rave parties and working with computers, enjoying life in Brazil and not really interested in Middle East conflicts.

Is that enough evidence for you ST?

Yes.

Let me ask you something: what the Israel government did with such weapons? Did the government destroyed, sold or used?

 

[Thunder]

Let me ask you something: what the Israel government did with such weapons? Did the government destroyed, sold or used?

probably gave them to racist settlers.

 

[Elind]

So no substantial rebuttal then? Just an adhom?

The UN Human Rights Council needs rebuttal?

Have you ever looked at the membership?

You need a rebuttal in the ass.

 

[JihadJane]

The UN Human Rights Council needs rebuttal?

Have you ever looked at the membership?

You need a rebuttal in the ass.

Any comments on the actual content of their report?

(I know this is a lot to ask. Sorry )

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Uganda rejects UN report on war crimes in Congo

*** The report covers the conflicts in Congo between 1993 and 2003 and chronicles hundreds of atrocities involving outside forces.

...

But in a letter to the UN, made public yesterday, Uganda's foreign affairs minister, Sam Kutesa, dismissed the report as "a compendium of rumours deeply flawed in methodology, sourcing and standard of proof". ***


Sound familiar?

 

[danrush]

The UN is worthless. We should send those people back to the old League of Nation's building at the Hauge and turn the UN into low rent housing.

 

[JihadJane]

The UN is worthless. We should send those people back to the old League of Nation's building at the Hauge and turn the UN into low rent housing.

Hi danrush.

Is there anything in the UN panel's report (pdf) that you actually disagree with?

 

[danrush]

Hi danrush.

Is there anything in the UN panel's report (pdf) that you actually disagree with?

I disagree with the UN's existance. They haven't stopped any of the 830 world conflicts since their inception. And when will they address the Arabian use of the Palestinains as their bullet catchers?

Gaza is an Arab run Treblinka for the Palestinians.

 

[JihadJane]

I disagree with the UN's existance. They haven't stopped any of the 830 world conflicts since their inception. And when will they address the Arabian use of the Palestinains as their bullet catchers?

Gaza is an Arab run Treblinka for the Palestinians.

Whether or not you agree with the UN's existence is irrelevant to the question of whether you disagree with anything in this particular report.