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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Katody Matrass said:
I have no idea how strong the belief of some of them is, but Mignini reportedly is a devout catholic, shouldn't he be the first to confess :)?
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Just maybe, he doesn't have anything to confess, in which case it's Amanda that should be the first to confess and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that. There are two sides to this you know.
 
Matthew Best said:
So they didn't just stop halfway through the movie to eat apple crumble, they made it as well.

How long does it take to make apple crumble? You might have to add that time to the 123 minutes duration of the film (while taking off the duration of the end credits as not many people sit through those in their homes) to get the time the meal finished. That would make it even earlier than Kevin's original estimate and put the time of death earlier also.
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Glad you caught that beauty.

If you use stomach content calculations endorsed and certified by some learned authors here: Meredith was dead before she got home.

Stomach contents don't lie. Hers was a complete, to the last drop untravelled chyme.
 
Solange305 said:
I don't know either, but it was enough to bother Meredith, that's the point I was trying to make.
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Noted - the clumsy segue from "I don't know either" to "but [I know] it was enough to bother Meredith".

You don't KNOW any such thing because there is NO first-hand, contemporaneous record of her saying or writing anything of the sort.

There is only the court testimony, two years after she died, of two of her British frends who were summoned as prosecution witnesses. Both were still naive, impressionable young women who were undoubtedly coached for the purpose:-

".... Robyn, Sophie; in hindsight, can you remember anything Meredith said that might have implied ill-will was growing between them? Little things that might not have seemed important at the time .....".

And me personally, I am no Amanda. I do not or have never slept with men on the first night of meeting them (we know of one for sure, Raffaele, so I don't think it's a stretch to assume she did it with other men).
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like any attractive, intelligent and gregarious young woman, if she wasn't actually beating them off with a stick, it's safe to assume that Amanda was never short of propositions by men wanting to bed her on sight (particularly at university), but we DO actually know that despite this, her grand total of lovers by the time she was thrown in jail at the age of 20 was seven (and we only know this, of course, thanks to the despicable behaviour of her captors).

Of course, that isn't to say that your modest virtue, in the face of undoubtedly the same temptation as Amanda, isn't admirable.

I would never hate a woman for doing so, or think badly of her (although I would think it's not a smart idea, and that maybe she has self esteem issues) [LOL], but I do look at a person's character as a whole, and there seem to be many negatives in Amanda's character.
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So, you have been able to judge Amanda's "character as a whole"? That's nice. Can you do that with everyone you read about?

However Missy, as I've asked of your fellow water-carriers; instead of simply blessing us with your extraordinary insight, why don't you show us a verifiable source for a statement or testimony from someone who actually knows or is acquainted with her in which the "many negatives in Amanda's character" are even hinted at?

Of course, you can't, because there are absolutely NONE. In fact they unanimously (yeh, I can see loverofzion's pithy riposte coming) say precisely the opposite. Are you sriously expecting anyone to believe that you are able to perceive traits in a person you've never met which they've concealed completely from their own family, friends and peers for their entire life? This, presumably, from reading the press? Can you perhaps see how ridiculous that is?

There is NO basis in reality for the absurd (and frankly rather nasty) surmises about AK's character that you and others make, they are real only in your minds, which might be revealing of someone's character, but it surely isn't Amanda's.
 
katy_did said:
No, they were not. Massei presented a reconstruction of the crime which ruled out the prosecution's argument that ruled out Meredith's body had been moved "quite some time" after death, and as Mary_H pointed out, the T.O.D. was calculated on the presumption that her body was covered shortly after death. Presumably, the evidence presented in the closed sessions of the trial was not convincing.
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That may be. I simply don't know. I am not willing to go through the tedious task of google translating Micheli again (didn't save it the first time) but perhaps someone else has the applicable section already. It was discussed several times on PMF and if I remember correctly the lividity showed she had lain somewhat face down or sideways for a period of time. Either way I don't have a cite.

Kevin_Lowe said:
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Assuming the girls' testimony is accurate there simply isn't much wiggle room in there. I don't think Raffaele's defence attorneys can have done the math - possibly they assumed it was a 90 minute movie, not a 123 minute movie? In any case, a pizza-eating time of 18:00 to 18:30 is plausible, but 19:00 just doesn't work. You can't start watching a 123 minute movie at 19:00, watch it all, and then leave at 20:45.
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That's a lot of presumption of utter incompetance there Kevin. Do you honestly think the defense are simply guessing, unlike you for instance?

Chris C said:
I think its tragic what happened to Meredith. However why do you think Meredith's situation is more concerning, its not like you can change the past?
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Wow, callous or what? I think not responding at all would have been better than that.
 
Solange305 said:
Well, finally a topic I have some experience on!
I don't know if Amanda and Raffaele did coke, I haven't seen anything regarding that yet. I do know that what happens after that hour of happiness, or once the coke runs out, is really ugly. It is the worst, most horrible feeling you can imagine. You aren't comfortable in your own skin, you feel like you'd rather die that sit there without any coke. It's an indescribable feeling. I can see someone coming off of coke (called as being on a "downer") killing someone or becoming violent. So although I have no reason to think that happened in this case, I don't think your assertion is correct that coke has no relation to violence.
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:eye-poppi
 
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piktor said:
Glad you caught that beauty.

If you use stomach content calculations endorsed and certified by some learned authors here: Meredith was dead before she got home.

Stomach contents don't lie. Hers was a complete, to the last drop untravelled chyme.
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Second best post I've read today, Moore's canning slightly tops it. This is why so many state that you shouldn't use stomach contents to try and determine TOD.
 
piktor said:
Glad you caught that beauty.

If you use stomach content calculations endorsed and certified by some learned authors here: Meredith was dead before she got home.

Stomach contents don't lie. Hers was a complete, to the last drop untravelled chyme.
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As far as stomach contents go, I refer you to page 115 of the Massei report, Piktor. Dr Lalli is quite clear that there was fibrous vegetable matter and cheese (possibly mozzarella) in her stomach at the time of her death.

It's funny how much PMF lore is directly contradicted by the Massei report.

As far as the idea that "Meredith was dead before she got home" goes, that is purely the invention of PMF posters. I gave a recap a few posts back (#8100), you can scroll up and read that if you want to get the actual story.

Danceme said:
That may be. I simply don't know. I am not willing to go through the tedious task of google translating Micheli again (didn't save it the first time) but perhaps someone else has the applicable section already. It was discussed several times on PMF and if I remember correctly the lividity showed she had lain somewhat face down or sideways for a period of time. Either way I don't have a cite.
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As Piktor just demonstrated, what's discussed or held to be true on PMF often has absolutely no relationship with reality.

I'm not saying everything that gets said there is wrong. Just enough of it that you should always, always check your facts before repeating something just because you heard it over there.

That's a lot of presumption of utter incompetance there Kevin. Do you honestly think the defense are simply guessing, unlike you for instance?
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I've been quite unimpressed with both the defence and the prosecution(s) in this case. Both have conspicuously failed to join some fairly obvious dots at times.

If you think about it for a moment, there's simply no way Meredith could have eaten at 19:00, then looked at photos, then watched a 123 minute movie, with a break for apple crumble, and left at 20:45, or even 21:00 as originally claimed. I mean, unless you think she had a TARDIS or something we can be pretty goddamned sure that didn't happen.

If the defence say it did, then they're just plain wrong on that point. A primary school child could do the math on that one.

I realise that it's a guilter trope to hold up both the defence and prosecution as infallible or nigh-infallible sources of truth, so that when all else fails you can shout "But the court found that she did it so she must have done it!". But really in this case I don't think you can sell it. The defence on this point just plain dropped the ball, and anyone who can do sums can prove it for themselves.
 
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Thank you Kevin for all your hard work re stomach contents. I was wondering if you could run that by me again, as I was having a bit of trouble with the maths. The way I readit, she was already dead before she got home. Where did I go wrong?

Perhaps the apple crumble did for me!
 
slander

JREF2010 said:
Unfortunately, I think they will slap her with more time. The Judge dislikes her and has her mind made up obviously, there will be no surprise Matteini thinks Amanda is a murderer and even more so part of the "Perugia team" against the three outsiders.
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I don't know the legal details, but I think it's not like the judge choses only between she is guilty of slander or they are guilty of "smacking". If there is an option of not punishing anyone, it will go that way. It's obvious that judge will never go against the medal-awarded police, but slapping more years on Amanda for slander would look too vindicative and create a bad image of Perugian judiciary.
 
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"How long does it take to make apple crumble? You might have to add that time to the 123 minutes duration of the film"

Has anyone seen the film? Is it any good? Should I rent it? Or would I be forced to fast forward the dull bits?
 
colonelhall said:
Thank you Kevin for all your hard work re stomach contents. I was wondering if you could run that by me again, as I was having a bit of trouble with the maths. The way I readit, she was already dead before she got home.
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I would refer you to post 8100, in particular these words:

Either way, the most likely time of death is the earliest one consistent with her being attacked in her home, and any later time of death is less probable than that.
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