Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

Status
Not open for further replies.
quadraginta said:
Beats the heck out of me. How is that relevant to her alleged culpability under rare, unenforced, and unenforceable U.S. laws?

Withnail1969 apparently had some purpose in offering that comment on the subject. Are you going to help explain what that purpose was?
Click to expand...

No, I was not intending to link my two sentences together. In the first sentence, I was pointing out that it's moot as to whether Ms Capezzali might or might not have been open to prosecution in certain US states (although, for what it's worth - as I wrote earlier - I agree with you that she couldn't have been prosecuted anywhere for the circumstances she describes).

In my second sentence, I was asking a question which I think is more relevant to examining Ms Capezzali's reliability and credibility. Why do you think she chose to reveal her knowledge of the "scream of death" on Italian television, rather than telephoning the police station and having a couple of officers come to her apartment?
 
London John: "second, the reference to Colonel Hall's wife was a reference to the TV show Fawlty Towers, one of whose episodes featured a character called Colonel Hall. I suspected that the poster calling him/herself Colonel Hall might well have taken his/her user name from that character."

L.J. your humour is obviously lost on most people here. The character from Fawlty Towers was in fact Major Gowen played by the late Ballard Berkely, (whose daughter Penny passed on his golf clubs to our officers mess).

For those who have a more solid grasp of military history, I am Colonel Hall, the ex-commanding officer of Fort Baxter. I currently reside in a rather well appointed army veteran's centre and am currently awaiting call-up for a top-secret foray into deepest Italy, which is being organised by honorary colonel Donald Trump.
 
Last edited:
Here's something interesting... according to Chris Mellas, Amanda does not know the Brazilian woman who has written a book called "Walking with Amanda" in which she claims to have befriended Amanda in prison.
 
colonelhall said:
London John: "second, the reference to Colonel Hall's wife was a reference to the TV show Fawlty Towers, one of whose episodes featured a character called Colonel Hall. I suspected that the poster calling him/herself Colonel Hall might well have taken his/her user name from that character."

L.J. your humour is obviously lost on most people here. The character from Fawlty Towers was in fact Major Gowen played by the late Ballard Berkely, (whose daughter Penny passed on his golf clubs to our officers mess).

For those who have a more solid grasp of military history, I am Colonel Hall, the ex-commanding officer of Fort Baxter. I currently reside in a rather well appointed army veteran's centre and am currently awaiting call-up for a top-secret foray into deepest Italy, which is being organised by honorary colonel Donald Trump.
Click to expand...

Ah no, Colonel Hall was a different character from Major Gowen. He and his wife only appeared in one episode of the show - as guests for Fawlty's infamous "Gourmet Night". But my apologies for misinterpreting the genesis of your user name, and best of luck with your upcoming incursion behind enemy lines. If it goes as well as "Operation Eagle Claw" in 1980, you'll be getting your Purple Heart in no time.... ;)
 
loverofzion said:
The police actually had no possible reason to suspect Patrick until Amanda brought him up in her accusation "He's bad...he's bad..."
Click to expand...

They didn't suspect Patrick, as such. They specifically suspected whomever had sent Knox the "see you later" text. Which, unfortunately for him, happened to be Patrick.

So I think most impartial observers will see this as the most likely way in which Patrick got dragged into the fiasco.

I do recognize there are some Guede defenders who find it useful to insist Knox's false confession was just another example of a calculated plan to frame a black man. But, considering the circumstances, if Patrick happened to be white, he still would have been the person Knox was coerced into accusing at that time.
 
leaks and myths

LondonJohn said:
Did the defence leak the bogus HIV-positive result and the list of previous lovers then?
Click to expand...

No, she leaked it herself, by writing it in her prison diary.
Anything a person in cautional custody does or keeps in their cell is not private.
After it got seized, anyone from the prison personnel, or the private prosecution lawyers entourage (like Pacelli) could have given it to Fiorenza Sarzanini.

Or, if that's not what you meant, what are you suggesting didn't happen? That Knox didn't get tested for HIV? That she didn't get told (incorrectly and without basic medical/ethical guidelines) that she was HIV-positive?
Click to expand...

You state arbitrarily of medical/ethical guidelines with no backing. You have no clue to say anything was incorrect, even less to say it was against medical deontology (which is not the same thing as guidelines by the way, and this further shows your ignorance). She was given a false positive. For what we know, this could be a correct result delivered by following fully correct and ethical medical procedure.

That she didn't get told (apparently without any counselling) to write down the names of all her previous sexual partners, together with whether condoms were used?
Click to expand...

Obviously I have the strongest doubts about this reconstruction, which seems to me quite made up, and looks more like a fictional travesty of what actually happens in such an occurrence. The patient is never asked to “write down the names of sexual partners”, even less to write all this information into a diary with full explanation. The patient only is suggested to contact previous partners at risk in order to communicate the warning.

The Capanne prison has a medical personnel of three appointed doctors and thirteen doctors working around 24/h in shifts, plus 9 paramedics. The names of all those doctors are known. If anyone of them ever orchestrated a deception or violated the patient’s rights this could have been easily addressed an found out: the doctor is known. And the doctor is a professional, there are organisms who could sanction any violation. Nobody had doubt on the doctor as far as I know and nobody (nor lawyer nor Amanda) ever complained with those organisms or about this doctor. Who are you to issue verdicts?

But even if the list were the result of a deception orchestrated with a conspiracy of police and doctors, even in this – absurd – case, still there would be no reason to think this could be done in order to produce a leakage. The only reason would have been investigative, to identify the names of Amanda’s lovers in the convincement that one of them was the murderer. Surely the compelling reason for such a conspiracy, for an investigator, could be only one: to secretly obtain names, not to leak them. The leakage could not possibly be the motive for the police to have these names, their interest would be obviously oriented toward Amanda’s partners to investigate them themselves, not to give them to the press.

That the list found its way into Italian media because it was part of a text in a diary speaking about her case, and everything like a diary written by a person in custody and under investigation in Italy always would find the way to the media. This is the rule, it is structural, with guilty, with innocents, this is just a factual media priviledge in investigations, this is no prosecution’s decision and has nothing to do with prosecution's nor investigators strategies.
 
colonelhall said:
Ah! The Gourmet Evening.
"Start!. Start, you vicious bastard!"
Click to expand...

Haha yeah. My sister actually bought me for Christmas some years ago a die-cast model of Basil's red Austin 1100 car complete with miniature Basil figurine holding the branch and preparing to strike the car :D
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
Here's something interesting... according to Chris Mellas, Amanda does not know the Brazilian woman who has written a book called "Walking with Amanda" in which she claims to have befriended Amanda in prison.
Click to expand...
Guess the Knox/Mellas clan doesn't like what was written is all that means.
 
tronic said:
How does this forum think the scratch on the neck of Amanda Knox shown in photographs, made firstly outside the house the morning after the crime and secondly by Perugia police when she was arrested 6 days later got there?
Click to expand...


Is this what that "scratch" looked like 6 days later?



It's a hickie.


ETA: it looks like you were asking this same question in your first post back in July.


PS: welcome back to JREF.
 
Last edited:
lane99 said:
They didn't suspect Patrick, as such. They specifically suspected whomever had sent Knox the "see you later" text. Which, unfortunately for him, happened to be Patrick.

So I think most impartial observers will see this as the most likely way in which Patrick got dragged into the fiasco.

I do recognize there are some Guede defenders who find it useful to insist Knox's false confession was just another example of a calculated plan to frame a black man. But, considering the circumstances, if Patrick happened to be white, he still would have been the person Knox was coerced into accusing at that time.
Click to expand...
"Coerced into accusing" has been ruled out I'm afraid.
After less than two hours of being questioned as a witness Amanda offered this version up to the police officers.
 
Machiavelli said:
No, she leaked it herself, by writing it in her prison diary.
Anything a person in cautional custody does or keeps in their cell is not private.
After it got seized, anyone from the prison personnel, or the private prosecution lawyers entourage (like Pacelli) could have given it to Fiorenza Sarzanini.
Click to expand...


Do you think Amanda was informed that the diary might go public? Do you think there is any truth to the rumors that the defendants' lawyers instructed them to keep prison diaries?

You state arbitrarily of medical/ethical guidelines with no backing. You have no clue to say anything was incorrect, even less to say it was against medical deontology (which is not the same thing as guidelines by the way, and this further shows your ignorance). She was given a false positive. For what we know, this could be a correct result delivered by following fully correct and ethical medical procedure.
Click to expand...


Could be. But why was she being tested for HIV? Did she give informed consent to being tested?

Obviously I have the strongest doubts about this reconstruction, which seems to me quite made up, and looks more like a fictional travesty of what actually happens in such an occurrence. The patient is never asked to “write down the names of sexual partners”, even less to write all this information into a diary with full explanation. The patient only is suggested to contact previous partners at risk in order to communicate the warning.

The Capanne prison has a medical personnel of three appointed doctors and thirteen doctors working around 24/h in shifts, plus 9 paramedics. The names of all those doctors are known. If anyone of them ever orchestrated a deception or violated the patient’s rights this could have been easily addressed an found out: the doctor is known. And the doctor is a professional, there are organisms who could sanction any violation. Nobody had doubt on the doctor as far as I know and nobody (nor lawyer nor Amanda) ever complained with those organisms or about this doctor. Who are you to issue verdicts?
Click to expand...


This is good information to have. Why do you think the doctor(s) stood by and let the information be released, without publicly protesting a violation of Amanda's right to medical privacy?

That the list found its way into Italian media because it was part of a text in a diary speaking about her case, and everything like a diary written by a person in custody and under investigation in Italy always would find the way to the media. This is the rule, it is structural, with guilty, with innocents, this is just a factual media priviledge in investigations, this is no prosecution’s decision and has nothing to do with prosecution's nor investigators strategies.
Click to expand...


How can it be a rule while also having nothing to do with strategies? What is the goal of the rule?
 
Col. Hall, I do hope the machinations of a certain Sgt. Bilko will not interfere with your mission.
 
Withnail1969 said:
Yes, because waiting for a store to open to buy bleach very early in the morning is a great way to avoid attracting any attention when cleaning up a crime scene, especially when you already have 2 bottles of bleach.
Click to expand...
Maybe the pair needed a new mophead?

They both certainly seemed to go out of their way to go on about the mop's importance in that bloody night.
 
LondonJohn said:
Knox may have known that Laura was well out of town, but did she know what Filomena's planned movements were for the morning of the 2nd November? I don't think so. Why might Knox not have thought that Filomena could return to the house at any time that morning?
Click to expand...
Perhaps because of the nature of the holiday weekend; there was no school and there was no work apparently.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom