Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[Gandalfs Beard]

An awesome thing happened to me the other day, I got drunk and I tripped over on the footpath, being the dimwitted fool that I am, and was very embarrased. Then someone called Jesus and I a drunkard and said we were possessed by the devil.

After that I decided that there should be a 2 drink maximum at the local pub. This was a very difficult law and left me unpopular.

Then I turned coca-cola into mountain Dew (or as the 911 truthers call it, Mountain Jew) and raised some zombies from the dead. It was no big deal though, in fact it was quite tedious and boring, and nobody was interested.

Long story Short, I then became a demi-god (see if I was making this up, id claim to be a full god) and you should all bow to me and do my bidding. This is of course contrary to my previous held belief in no god, but hey im willing to let that belief go.

Only Kooky Moonbat RIGHT WING Anti-Illuminati/Freemason, Anti-Immigrant, Anti-Jewish Banker, Anti ET, Protocols of the Elders of Zion Spewing, Birther/Secret Socialist Muslim Believing 9/11 "Truthers" (nee Alex Jones, Ahmedinejad et al) call it "Mountain Jew".

Those that are simply skeptical of the "New Testament" Lies, Pseudo-science, and Holes in the Tin-foil Hat Official Conspiracy Theory just call it DOC.

Please do not conflate the two.

GB

 

[Rincewind]

Hi DOC,

Is it my turn yet?

I'm still waiting - fairly patiently - for the evidence about the Martyrs....

Thank you...

 

[A Lurker]

I'm down with Fi on this one unless Doc or his buds come up with something truly new.

I've got to admit, I've checked out of this thread myself now; I opened the last page to just make sure I wasn't going to commit the same sin of ignoring anything someone had said recently, only to see that DOC is back to referencing Shelby Foote and the Civil War again. He literally only has maybe 10 arguments he keeps using again and again; this thread really needs to be locked, and a Moderated one opened, to prevent him just endlessly abusing all decent standards of public discourse.

And I just want to say that, this weekend my tolerance for your personal dishonesty finally just broke DOC. You've been given plenty of opportunity to treat others with respect, but your narrow minded behaviour morally sickens me. I see in turn that, having asked how Harry Potter influenced the world, you have changed the question yet again, asking who has been Martyred for it... whilst ignoring all the Islamic martyrs. If someone points that out, you'll just change your argument again to say that this doesn't count, because it wasn't done for Christ. Someone will then point out Jesus Christ is the second holiest person in Islam, so yes they were, but you'll say...

... but frankly, who cares what you say any more? If your Christ is anything like you, he's a repetitive bore who doesn't acknowledge anything or anyone in the world except that which inflates his own sense of ego. And that Pride is one of the 7 Deadly Sins, remember? What you write is not holy, not in the slightest; The only saints here in this thread are those who've responded to your endless repeating of the same discredited points with equally endless patience, and with far more respect than your lying and disrespect towards them deserves. It's not as if we can't even predict what your response to this post would be; You'll either just ignore it completely, or say "Another post that attacks DOC, with no relevant content." But there is, it's mostly in paragraph 3. Just yet another lie for Christ...

So goodbye Doc. I'd declare I was putting you on ignore, but you'd just proclaim it as "ignoring Christ" and use it to further fuel your own sense of religious superiority, further emotionally and spiritually dragging us all down into the gutter. So understand this; I'm abandoning you not because you are holy, not because you've "won" in any sense... but because prolonged contact with your debating style just infects all around it, and makes them feel dirty and pathetic in turn. I'm abandoning this thread because removing DOC's voice will make me feel better. And if there is a Jesus, I'll pray that he's a much, much better man than you are... but you'd better pray that he's not.

 

[bikerdruid]

is doc on another 'research sabbatical'?

 

[Agatha]

No, he's recycling his nonsense claims elsewhere. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6373672#post6373672

 

[DOC]

Look Doc, we been up in this biotch for more than two years, if you don't have anything new, why don't we shut her down?

Another skeptic who wants this thread shut down, that encourages me. You need to seriously ask yourself why, and take some quiet time to think about that.

And new information does come out periodically. For example this new post shows many things about the bible that many people have never really thought about.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6344362#post6344362

And the information about important NT figure Caiaphus' ossury being found, and also the passage in Peter that admits to there being unjust servant/slave owners are relatively new information. If the speed of the new information that comes out is too slow for you then just don't come into the thread, it's very simple.

 

[Elizabeth I]

Another skeptic who wants this thread shut down, that encourages me. You need to seriously ask yourself why, and take some quiet time to think about that.

Dang, I'm starting to think I'm psychic. Somehow I just knew you'd be doing a (completely unjustified) little victory dance when you read that.

 

[joobz]

Another skeptic who wants this thread shut down, that encourages me. You need to seriously ask yourself why, and take some quiet time to think about that.

This site is dedicated to logic, critical thinking and evidence.
You have only provided logical fallacies*, dishonesty** and NO evidence.
Why would you think your thread deserves to remain active?

* e.g., appeal to authority (Ramsay), appeal to numbers (List of presidents) and Special pleading (Martyr argument)

**You have insinuated to not have seen my post regarding modern biblical scholarship, and after presenting it, you have conveniently ignored it.


Note that I will not provide links to either of these points as they are clear in this thread. My guess is you will claim this is an "unevidenced" post, which would be further evidence of your dishonesty.

 

[Resume]

that encourages me.

I apologize to the forum, no, I apologize to the entire internet for encouraging this . . . person.

 

[zooterkin]

And new information does come out periodically.

Sometimes you just make it up. Do you think you could explain again where in the NT it says that Christians should worship on Sunday?

For example this new post shows many things about the bible that many people have never really thought about.

No, really, it doesn't. It lists a number of bible verses; they are not evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth.

And the information about important NT figure Caiaphus' ossury being found,

Which proves nothing. The bible mentions several people we know to have existed; this has absolutely no bearing on whether the miracles actually happened.

also the passage in Peter that admits to there being unjust servant/slave owners are relatively new information.

New in what sense, exactly? No-one had read it in the last two thousand years? Or had you only just read it for the first time?

 

[DOC]

This site is dedicated to logic, critical thinking and evidence.
You have only provided logical fallacies*, dishonesty** and NO evidence.

(bolding added)

This just demonstrates what I've said before, some skeptics are terrified to admit to one speck of evidence and I think that hurts the credibility of those skeptics as being unbiased.

I can see skeptics saying, well Doc, yes that is some evidence but it is not enough for me to believe, but to just come out and say that there is no evidence in the 2,150 posts I've presented in this thread is, in my opinion, definite evidence of a closed mind.

 

[DOC]

And new information does come out periodically. For example this new post shows many things about the bible that many people have never really thought about.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=6344362#post6344362

...No, really, it doesn't. It lists a number of bible verses; they are not evidence that the New Testament writers told the truth...

But the logical analysis of those verses can lead one to believe that they were not made up, which would definitely increase the probability that the NT writers were telling the truth.

 

[joobz]

(bolding added)

This just demonstrates what I've said before, some skeptics are terrified to admit to one speck of evidence and I think that hurts the credibility of those skeptics as being unbiased.

I can see skeptics saying, well Doc, yes that is some evidence but it is not enough for me to believe, but to just come out and say that there is no evidence in the 2,150 posts I've presented in this thread is, in my opinion, definite evidence of a closed mind.

If something is a logical fallacy, it isn't evidence. Plain and simple. You have yet to present anything that is actual evidence.

By the way, You ignored the evidence I presented again. Why are you so afraid to address this?

 

[joobz]

But the logical analysis of those verses can lead one to believe that they were not made up, which would definitely increase the probability that the NT writers were telling the truth.

again, this is NOT logically consistent. There are countless examples of fiction with facts written into it. That doesn't make the fiction any less fictional.

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

(bolding added)

This just demonstrates what I've said before, some skeptics are terrified to admit to one speck of evidence and I think that hurts the credibility of those skeptics as being unbiased.

I can see skeptics saying, well Doc, yes that is some evidence but it is not enough for me to believe, but to just come out and say that there is no evidence in the 2,150 posts I've presented in this thread is, in my opinion, definite evidence of a closed mind.

No DOC, the fact is you haven't presented any evidence that the NT authors told the Truth about Jesus Christ. You may have presented some evidence that other characters, artifacts, and places existed. You may have presented evidence that other people spout what they BELIEVE.

But mostly you just present logical fallacies. And nothing, absolutely nothing, that is actually evidence for the existence of, the divinity of, or the resurrection of, Jesus.

You still haven't addressed many arguments (including my own) that would definitively nip in the bud the claims of the OP:

To wit: If the Early Christians who wrote the NT, and other texts expunged from the NT, couldn't even agree on a "True" version or interpretation of the NT until the Council of Nicea, then how can one claim that the NT authors wrote the "Truth?"

That's right DOC, the Early Christians from Day 1 fell roughly into 3 camps, the Strict Monotheists that denied Jesus' divinity (Arians), the Monist/Dualist Mystics that posited a spark of divinity not only for Jesus but for everyone (Gnostics), or those who would eventually become Trinitarians positing the Exclusiveness of Jesus' divinity (Catholics).

But I know if you were to admit, or acknowledge that this is true, you would have no basis at all for your Thesis.

GB

 

[JPL]

(bolding added)

This just demonstrates what I've said before, ...
the 2,150 posts I've presented in this thread is, in my opinion, definite evidence of a closed mind.

Finally, something I can agree with! (sorry, was that quote mining?)

 

[X]

(bolding added)

This just demonstrates what I've said before, some skeptics are terrified to admit to one speck of evidence and I think that hurts the credibility of those skeptics as being unbiased.

I can see skeptics saying, well Doc, yes that is some evidence but it is not enough for me to believe, but to just come out and say that there is no evidence in the 2,150 posts I've presented in this thread is, in my opinion, definite evidence of a closed mind.

Actually, if you go back a few (okay, maybe more than a few) pages and read c.j. 23's posts, you'll find that he made several good points which were accepted by the majority of skeptics here.

He did this be providing evidence for his claims, and by demonstrating knowledge and understanding of the subjects he addressed.

In other words, he did his research, and it showed.
Oh, and he's a Christian. You really should read his posts carefully, and compare them to yours. While you do so, consider why it might be that c.j. 23 is respected and considered credible while your are mocked. Maybe you'll understand understand why the only credibility being hurt in this thread is yours.


You by contrast, in your 2,150 posts, have demonstrated only ignorance. Ignorance of history, ignorance of religions, ignorance of your own holy book, the Bible and a stubborn determination to remain as ignorant as possible.

The arguments you have brought fourth have been fallacious, dishonest, factually incorrect, asinine, based on old and outdated arguments, or any combination thereof.

Further, you misunderstand the mindset of skeptics.

Skeptics are not terrified to admit new evidence. We just ask that the evidence actually be evidence. Evidence must be verifiable, factual, and not floating in a putrid sea of fallacy. You have failed to understand this concept and have provided nothing worthy of the name.
Your pet definition of evidence as "something useful in making a decision" is useless. Anything can be used in making a decision. But let me ask you something:
Do you care, DOC, if the evidences you use to make decisions are correct?
Skeptics do.
And you have failed to provide anything we would consider evidence.

But go ahead, dance your victory jig, DOC.
You'll be the only one.

 

[RoboTimbo]

But the logical analysis of those verses can lead one to believe that they were not made up, which would definitely increase the probability that the NT writers were telling the truth.

Would the same type of logical fallacies that you have presented for The Evil* apply as evidence for other, non-evil reglions as well?





* DOC cited a quote that Christianity is The Evil in this post.

 

[Garrette]

(bolding added)

This just demonstrates what I've said before, some skeptics are terrified to admit to one speck of evidence and I think that hurts the credibility of those skeptics as being unbiased.

I can see skeptics saying, well Doc, yes that is some evidence but it is not enough for me to believe, but to just come out and say that there is no evidence in the 2,150 posts I've presented in this thread is, in my opinion, definite evidence of a closed mind.

I can't remember if this is my first post in this thread, but it will be my last.

DOC: You are assuming information remains in its initial state; you are wrong.

If I investigate a robbery and find a set of fingerprints belonging to a known robber at the scene of the crime, then those fingerprints are evidence (but not proof) that this person did it. But when I later find out that the robber, in his new and legitimate guise as dishwasher repairman, left those fingerprints during a house call a week ago, and has an impeachable alibi for the time of the robbery, then those fingerprints are no longer evidence of his guilt. Even if I never solve the crime, those fingerprints are not evidence. At all. Period.

The things you continue to raise here either never were evidence for what you claim or have been shown not to be since their first presentation (before this thread) and so no longer are.

You have presented no evidence for the truth of the NT.

And that is enough of my time wasted, as I am sure you will find a way to rationalize this away and ignore the truth. I'd love to be wrong, though.

 

[tsig]

.
To be fair, the veggies were *way* overboiled and had lost most of their texture and taste...
.

I dunno. Aberhaten is a jerk. He was over at my place last night and all he did was winge about the meal that he insisted I cook for him. What a wanker.



Well he brought my do g back to life and it was a miracle because I don't have a dog!