Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[kmortis]

Are you suggesting that Twiler, whom Sir William Ramsay has called one of the most honest posters on the JREF forum, is fibbing? You have presented no evidence of this extraordinary claim.

And extraordinary claims require ordinary signatures.

Plus, Twiler's 12 posts in this thread are out there for all to read.

 

[DOC]

Let's see... Josephus only mentions what was believed about Jesus, and certainly not from a first person vantage.

Very few historians actually witness the events they write about. Shelby Foote never witnessed the Civil War but that doesn't mean he can't write a best seller about it.

He makes no mention of the apostles nor of Mary, etc.

And I know very little about the inner circle of Napoleon, also. But Josephus does write about John the Baptist, and the brother {cousin} of Christ, James.

Tacitus mentions Jesus even less. All that you can derive from Tacitus was that Christians existed and believed in Jesus...

Christus: Annals 15.44.2-8 by Roman Senator/Historian Tacitus

"Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome..."

 

[Resume]

Very few historians actually witness the events they write about. Shelby Foote never witnessed the Civil War

That's not gonna fly; we have Civil War daguerreotypes for crying out loud.

 

[Simon39759]

Very few historians actually witness the events they write about. Shelby Foote never witnessed the Civil War but that doesn't mean he can't write a best seller about it.

No... Because he uses (and reference) sources that did. If he relied on hearsay, as the writers of the NT did, he wouldn't be credible.

And I know very little about the inner circle of Napoleon, also.

Yes, and your personal ignorance proves what?

But Josephus does write about John the Baptist, and the brother {cousin} of Christ, James.

Josephus did write about John the Baptist and, it is possible that he also write about Jesus' brother, we can't be sure, some later Christian having messed with the text...

Christus: Annals 15.44.2-8 by Roman Senator/Historian Tacitus

"Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome..."

A pretty good evidence for the presence of Christians at Rome during the time of Nero.
Although, it is also possible that Tacitus got confused and the Jews were actually targeted, or targeted alongside Christians.
The distinction was not clear at the time, even for Jews and Christians themselves. And, certainly not for the Roman authorities. By the time of Tacitus' writing, Christians had rose has the primary current, and it is possible that Tacitus made a wrong assumption... It's a bit debated...

At any rate, it has little to do with the alleged existence of the alleged Christ half a century before, and even less to do with the magical narrative surrounding him.

 

[RoboTimbo]

"...Judaea, the first source of the evil..."

Admitting that Christianity is evil is a big step for you, DOC. But hey, if you're citing it as fact, it must be true, right? Is it ok with you if you refer to it as The Evil from now on?

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

Very few historians actually witness the events they write about. Shelby Foote never witnessed the Civil War but that doesn't mean he can't write a best seller about it.



And I know very little about the inner circle of Napoleon, also. But Josephus does write about John the Baptist, and the brother {cousin} of Christ, James.



Christus: Annals 15.44.2-8 by Roman Senator/Historian Tacitus

"Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome..."

You really don't get that every one of these arguments has been CATEGORICALLY refuted, do you????!!!

Not to mention that the Tacitus Quote you posted PROVES THE POINT that Tacitus can only confirm the existence of Christians, not of Christ. In other words, thanks for proving our point.

GB

 

[DOC]

DOC, as essentially a lurker to this thread (I may have posted once or twice), I'm inclined to think that using your evidence, Harry J. Potter is more truthier than Jesus H. Christ, don't think I'm being cute here 'cause I'm not, I've invested ten days of research in this.
My analyzation is this:

HJP wore specs; how embarrassing is that?
JHC didn't wear specs, did he?

HJP was born and lived in England, we know his place of birth, where he was raised (including the street name and number), how he was raised, his schooling and who he fell in love with.
JHC needed a special code written in the bible to give us cryptic clues as to who he fell in love with, be the recipient male or female.

HJP has changed the world, there are buildings, edifices and 'city size' parks in his honour that people of every faith flock to and queue for in their millions every year.
JHC can't boast the same 'homage' numbers as HJP.

I've actually seen, met and shook hands with HJP before he gave my daughter an autograph.
I used to talk to JHC, every single day, for years and years, but he was too full of himself to reply or even show his face, never mind respond. Maybe, that's why HJP is on the front page of 'Hello!' and JHC isn't.

HJP did indeed rid the world of evil.
JHC left it for us to deal with, and we don't got wands!!!

Have over 42 US presidents claimed the teachings of Harry Potter as their religion and has Harry Potter affected the name of the year in which you or your relatives were born (aka B.C. and A.D.). And have thousands of people been martyred (or would choose martydom) for their belief in Harry Potter.

 

[Resume]

Have over 42 US presidents claimed the teachings of Harry Potter as their religion and has Harry Potter affected the name of the year in which you or your relatives were born (aka B.C. and A.D.). And have thousands of people been martyred (or would choose martydom) for their belief in Harry Potter.

Appeal to authority; argumentum ad populum; hearsay, etc.

 

[carlitos]

Have over 42 US presidents claimed the teachings of Harry Potter as their religion and has Harry Potter affected the name of the year in which you or your relatives were born (aka B.C. and A.D.). And have thousands of people been martyred (or would choose martydom) for their belief in Harry Potter.

^^
You asked for it Welshdean!

Here DOC,

I have a couple of extra question marks I'm not using. Just copy and paste these the next time you need them. No charge!


? ? ? ?

PS - Your lying for Jesus routine is repugnant to this poster, just FYI.

 

[joobz]

Have over 42 US presidents claimed the teachings of Harry Potter as their religion and has Harry Potter affected the name of the year in which you or your relatives were born (aka B.C. and A.D.). And have thousands of people been martyred (or would choose martydom) for their belief in Harry Potter.

Have any of them denied the truth of Harry Potter?
If they didn't believe, why would they let the books become such wide selling successes.

 

[Lothian]

Very few historians actually witness the events they write about.

Christus: Annals 15.44.2-8 by Roman Senator/Historian Tacitus

"Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome..."

So rumour as opposed to fact.

 

[Fitter]

<snip> has Harry Potter affected the name of the year in which you or your relatives were born (aka B.C. and A.D.). <snip>

So the fact that I was born on a Wednesday proves that Odin existed.

 

[John Jones]

Very few historians actually witness the events they write about. Shelby Foote never witnessed the Civil War but that doesn't mean he can't write a best seller about it.

Is Shelby Foote the long-lost Evidence for why we know NT authors told the truth?

 

[Elizabeth I]

Look at my post-count, I am... (43 at the time of posting this)

Well, welcome, although I'm sure you have the sympathy of all here for falling into this Slough of Despond.

And I know very little about the inner circle of Napoleon, also.

But, you know, writers who were contemporaries of Napoleon knew about his inner circle and I'm sure some of them wrote about those acquaintances. I know about his wives Josephine and Maria Louisa. So, as someone pointed out, the fact that you are ignorant about that period in history shows nothing but that you are ignorant about that period in history. What's your point exactly?

But Josephus does write about John the Baptist, and the brother {cousin} of Christ, James.

And, again, the fact that no one seems to be quite sure whether the putative James was Jesus' cousin or his brother, added to the many other uncertain items from the story, does nothing to lend it credence.

 

[Lucian]

So the fact that I was born on a Wednesday proves that Odin existed.

Yes, for the love of Thor, YES!

 

[Resume]

Look Doc, we been up in this biotch for more than two years, if you don't have anything new, why don't we shut her down?

 

[bikerdruid]

A But Josephus does write about John the Baptist, and the brother {cousin} of Christ, James.

james is supposedly the brother of jesus.
why do you call him cousin?
hmmmm.....discrepancies in the bible, or it's interpretation....unheard of!!

 

[Fiona]

Look Doc, we been up in this biotch for more than two years, if you don't have anything new, why don't we shut her down?

This is a good question.

It has been amply demonstrated that DOC is happy to lie in defence of his position. I do not think that is debatable, really

It is perfectly clear that s/he has the patience to continue this to the end of time.

It is equally clear that DOC does not wish to engage with people who challenge what "counts" as evidence: and is wholly unwilling to make any statement about that (and I draw on the other thread in reaching this conclusion: for it is clearer there)

In face of all this I will make a proposal. Let us not continue to humiliate DOC. It is perfectly possible to argue that if s/he does not care whether s/he is humiliated or not then why should we? Get thee behind me Satan. In past times people went to Bedlam to view the mentally ill, for entertainment. That is not allowed now: and I am glad. I do not think that is a good way for us to behave. In saying that I freely admit the temptation. It obviously does DOC no harm, because s/he is oblivious. But I think it harms us.

In opposition to what I am suggesting I have heard it proposed that if we do not challenge these views then the other will run off to other boards and brag about how those sceptics could not answer them: given the length of this thread I hardly think that is a concern. If DOC's pals think they can add to what has been said ,then that let them come: if they read the thread the truth is obvious: and if they are as blind and wrong headed as DOC then what have we lost? Nothing so far: some time in the future, maybe

Do not get me wrong: the pleasure of being right is seductive: but ask yourself: is this a real opponent? I do not think so

 

[Resume]

I'm down with Fi on this one unless Doc or his buds come up with something truly new.

 

[atecom]

An awesome thing happened to me the other day, I got drunk and I tripped over on the footpath, being the dimwitted fool that I am, and was very embarrased. Then someone called Jesus and I a drunkard and said we were possessed by the devil.

After that I decided that there should be a 2 drink maximum at the local pub. This was a very difficult law and left me unpopular.

Then I turned coca-cola into mountain Dew (or as the 911 truthers call it, Mountain Jew) and raised some zombies from the dead. It was no big deal though, in fact it was quite tedious and boring, and nobody was interested.

Long story Short, I then became a demi-god (see if I was making this up, id claim to be a full god) and you should all bow to me and do my bidding. This is of course contrary to my previous held belief in no god, but hey im willing to let that belief go.