Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris C]

English for me is a second language, or could be the third.
/snip
.

Sadly when we read the diaries of all 3 of the people standing convicted in this case, its seems everyone INTERPRETS them. If we read guede's letter, he clearly points out that its a lone attacker that kills Meredith. Yet people dont give this any weight. They try to point to Sollecito's and ignore Guede's.

 

[Chris C]

Guede wore a 46, Sollecito a 42.

Rudy wears an extra long shoe because the toe next to his big toe is longer.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/footprints-03.html

 

[Justinian2]

Yes but there were no less than 19 judges who sifted through the evidence of the almost one year long trial.
Those guys are actually sharp knives.

Appeal to authority?

Ever see that suspension bridge that fell apart because of wind generated oscillation? Those guys (designers) are actually sharp knives too.

The Massei report had the facts and was largely accurate until the conclusion. The conclusion was written without logical consideration of the facts. The conclusion seemed to be written to support the initial bias that AK and RS did the crime and should do the time.

The Massei report is a dichotomy; the conclusion is a non-sequitur.

 

[JREF2010]

There is a lot of doubt. Raffaele's appeal devotes 19 pages (175-194) to the problems in the prosecution's and judge's interpretation of this evidence. To me, it looks like Rudy's.

me too, looks like a wet, blood soaked, sock print.
the lack of the second toe matches Rudys foot, imo.

but as Mary said, is this a diversion?

If the bathmat print was found to be Rudys would it free Raffaele? probably not. Raffale already was cleared of the bloody tennis shoe print, and he's still in prison.

However if the bra clasp is found to be a misread in the lab, via convincingly being shown to be a incorrect interpretation of a noisy graph... or some form of contamination
Raffaele might be released.

 

[Chris C]

me too, looks like a wet, blood soaked, sock print.
the lack of the second toe matches Rudys foot, imo.

but as Mary said, is this a diversion?

If the bathmat print was found to be Rudys would it free Raffaele? probably not. Raffale already was cleared of the bloody tennis shoe print, and he's still in prison.

However if the bra clasp is found to be a misread in the lab, via convincingly being shown to be a incorrect interpretation of a noisy graph... or some form of contamination
Raffaele might be released.

If one goes free, I believe all will go free. However, in Rudy's case I think they will reprosecute him or give him time served. Though he will get a change of venue if they prosecute him again.

 

[Brooktrout]

I read Rudi Guede's diary for the first time today. It is clearly the product of a sad young man who has had difficulties in life with parental figures, friendship, and expectations about himself and others.

Did any part of his account involving visiting his friends both before and after the murder check out?

I was surprised at how deeply the sentimentality about his foster family, friends and former life, is mixed up with fantasy.

Clearly, there's something pathological at work here.

Also, at the time it was written, blaming this on Amanda Knox and Sollecito obviously had not dawned on him fully yet. He wonders aloud how Amanda could have slept in the murder scene house, for instance, something he clearly got from the press.

 

[Dan O.]

However if the bra clasp is found to be a misread in the lab, via convincingly being shown to be a incorrect interpretation of a noisy graph... or some form of contaminationRaffaele might be released.

How do you propose that contamination be proven? It is the responsibility of the DNA lab to show by following known and tested procedures that no contamination of any kind was a contributing factor in their result. When the lab fails to properly test for contamination, the suspects will generally go free as was the case with this serial killer suspect that evaded police for 15 years.

PS: look further for the rest of the story!

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Are you saying that some here believe Rudy did it because he was black?

This has always been a factor that shapes perception, and it is frequently invoked as an argument of convenience. But Guede was not targeted because of his race. He was targeted because of physical evidence. Let's summarize the physical evidence Guede left in the room where Meredith was killed:

- Bloody fingerprints
- Bloody shoe prints
- DNA inside Meredith's vagina
- DNA on two articles of her clothing and on her purse

Let's suppose no visible evidence had been present at the crime scene, that the only reason Guede became a suspect is because he happened to be in the neighborhood, and the only physical evidence was a single DNA trace on the victim's clothing, recovered weeks after he had been named as a suspect. In those circumstances, I would be inclined to question the evidence, and suspect that Guede might have been framed. Certainly it would be a murky case.

But it's not. We're not looking at one DNA trace. We're looking at a clear pattern of physical evidence proving that Guede murdered Meredith Kercher. His race is completely beside the point.

 

[Mary_H]

Let's suppose ... the only reason Guede became a suspect is because he happened to be in the neighborhood, and the only physical evidence was a single DNA trace on the victim's clothing, recovered weeks after he had been named as a suspect. In those circumstances, I would be inclined to question the evidence ....

Well, when you put it that way.....

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

How do you propose that contamination be proven? It is the responsibility of the DNA lab to show by following known and tested procedures that no contamination of any kind was a contributing factor in their result. When the lab fails to properly test for contamination, the suspects will generally go free as was the case with this serial killer suspect that evaded police for 15 years.

PS: look further for the rest of the story!

Contamination is random and unintended, so it can never be proven. But it is possible to evaluate whether sound practices were used in collecting and handling evidence. In this case, they were not. The most significant problems were that the investigators touched the evidence and did not change gloves between samples.

I find it interesting that the DNA of both Amanda and Meredith was found in Filomena's room, but Filomena's DNA apparently was not, because the only unidentified markers on the e-grams are extremely low (although some are present). The prosecution argues that this DNA proves Amanda went into Filomena's room after the crime. But why would Amanda leave her DNA and Meredith's DNA on the floor by doing that? If people leave DNA on the floor wherever they walk, why wasn't Filomena's DNA in the mix? If it was "mixed blood," why wasn't Amanda's DNA also found on the floor of Meredith's room, where a far greater number of samples were taken?

I think what happened is that the investigator swabbed Filomena's floor after taking other samples in Meredith's room and Amanda's room, and the DNA was on his or her gloves rather than the sample. There's no proof, and there never will be. But, after watching the sample-gathering process on the video, one can certainly not exclude this as a possibility.

 

[Chris C]

How do you propose that contamination be proven? It is the responsibility of the DNA lab to show by following known and tested procedures that no contamination of any kind was a contributing factor in their result. When the lab fails to properly test for contamination, the suspects will generally go free as was the case with this serial killer suspect that evaded police for 15 years.

PS: look further for the rest of the story!

Actually the defenses is attacking the bra clasp on a few levels.

Mainly they want proof its even Sollecito's DNA. Their claim that its only a partial profile is well founded. There is also evidence to suggest that it was below the normal amount and should have been tested using LCN. The defense wants LCN dna testing to prove it was even Sollecito profile.
After all, they where already stretching the limits of LCN testing when they decided to override the the min standards on the knife. However they wouldn't LCN test the sample to see if they could get better than a partial profile.

 

[Chris C]

Maybe someone can help me with this reasoning.
When the investigators used luminol on the floor and it reacted, they decided to test it with TMB to verify. However, when they tested the knife using TMB and it didn't react, they decided to not test the knife using luminol.

Now why would the lab not test the knife using Luminol. Apparently a TMB test is sufficient to decide whether there is blood or not on the Knife. Yet its not sufficient for the floor.
Or would the luminol react with the metal in the knife blade? If so, why didn't they use a different test.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Maybe someone can help me with this reasoning.
When the investigators used luminol on the floor and it reacted, they decided to test it with TMB to verify. However, when they tested the knife using TMB and it didn't react, they decided to not test the knife using luminol.

Now why would the lab not test the knife using Luminol. Apparently a TMB test is sufficient to decide whether there is blood or not on the Knife. Yet its not sufficient for the floor.
Or would the luminol react with the metal in the knife blade? If so, why didn't they use a different test.

I think TMB is regarded as a more accurate test, but the procedure is different and it is usually performed in a lab setting (by adding it to liquid in which the sample has also been soaked). Luminol is a field test, but it reacts with many substances.

 

[colonelhall]

Hi Mary,

I've been away for a while. Since hearing that you are really a man, I have had some personal issues to deal with. The army chaplain has been helping me with these and I am now feeling more able to resume our relationship, albeit on a very different footing.

 

[Justinian2]

If one goes free, I believe all will go free. However, in Rudy's case I think they will reprosecute him or give him time served. Though he will get a change of venue if they prosecute him again.

I totally cannot understand this conclusion. There was ample evidence to convict Guede. Even if the prosecution was forced to give up a bloody fingerprint, a footprint and his DNA in MK's Vagina, it's likely that they could still successfully prosecute him. Under fasttrack, he probably got the best result he could get.

 

[Dan O.]

Now why would the lab not test the knife using Luminol. Apparently a TMB test is sufficient to decide whether there is blood or not on the Knife. Yet its not sufficient for the floor.
Or would the luminol react with the metal in the knife blade? If so, why didn't they use a different test.

Yes, Luminal reacts with metal, specifically iron such as in steel.

 

[Dan O.]

I totally cannot understand this conclusion. There was ample evidence to convict Guede. Even if the prosecution was forced to give up a bloody fingerprint, a footprint and his DNA in MK's Vagina, it's likely that they could still successfully prosecute him. Under fasttrack, he probably got the best result he could get.

Who would ask for a new trial? To seek a new trial against Guede as a lone attacker, the prosecutor would have to admit that they were wrong in the first trials. I've seen very few instances of prosecutors admitting they were wrong, even after convictions are overturned by higher courts.

Rudy cannot seriously hope to get a better deal in a new trial. Even if Rudy were in fact innocent, he would have already squandered his credibility by falsely accusing Amanda and Raffaele. Nobody is going to believe his "bushy haired stranger did it" story now.

 

[Katody Matrass]

I think a discussion with me is worth only in case are able to conclude, after reading the text, that “Meredith” is the only possible meaning and the text is univocal, with no possibility of a writer’s mistake between the “Amanda” and “Meredith”, independently from the writing skills of the author. You ought to draw the conclusion that there is no possibility the author meant “Amanda” in the aforementioned text. I have compelling arguments to support this but I am not providing them here, you have to be able to see them alone and decide by yourself there is an unequivocal answer.

I wonder what it is with that colpevolisti's fixation. I personally cannot see any difference, no matter which girl was it that Raffaele fantasized in his diary about pricking with the knife it won't make the ToD problem go away, it won't conjure evidence for a clean-up or a fake break-in nor will it fix the rest of botched forensics.

I also thinlk yous hould apologize - to Meredith's memory - for having denied the offence included in Sollecito's writing.

 

[Maya C]

I don't accept that anyone writing anything in prison expects that it won't be read. Prison officials read everything, period. I don't think any of the three are that naive to think otherwise.

I also have a hard time believing Raffaele was referring to Amanda when he wrote about pricking her hand. He is trying to explain why Meredith's DNA was found on a knife that came from his apartment. How would an accidental prick to Amanda result in Meredith's DNA? By all accounts, Raffaele seems an intelligent young man.

To all, have a wonderful day. I'm off for an extended weekend with the man I love. No phones, no electricity, just the beautiful Hudson Valley, and us. I think I'm in Heaven.

 

[Mary_H]

Hi Mary,

I've been away for a while. Since hearing that you are really a man, I have had some personal issues to deal with. The army chaplain has been helping me with these and I am now feeling more able to resume our relationship, albeit on a very different footing.

LOL, colonel! You can relax, it was all a joke; I am as feminine as ever. No arm wrestling here, just mental gymnastics.