Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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RoseMontague said:
I don't see it as a problem. You can even see the cars parked outside from the window. This picture it appears would just be a straight on throw.

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_383964c98eb37e68a9.jpg[/qimg]
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Photo angles are not always an adequate indicator of measurement (perspective). Obviously, it would be more accurate to have a photo taken from driveway to window (or opposite), measurements of distance from porch to window, driveway to window, width of driveway in comparison to where corner lines up with window, etc.

Has this been brought up in either of the appeals as to contradict the break-in staging?
 
RoseMontague said:
Katody marked the entry window with a blue arrow. Hanging down from the tip of the roof looks to me to be about 7 feet or so, maybe 349689 meters (but i am not so good with metrics).
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Thank you. It's the other window then. It seems like with the aid of a rope, someone could have hung from the gable to the left and walked himself to either wall, pulled the rock out of a pocket and smashed in the window.

Any rock climbers in the crowd?
 
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christianahannah said:
Photo angles are not always an adequate indicator of measurement (perspective). Obviously, it would be more accurate to have a photo taken from driveway to window (or opposite), measurements of distance from porch to window, driveway to window, width of driveway in comparison to where corner lines up with window, etc.

Has this been brought up in either of the appeals as to contradict the break-in staging?
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The appeals don't make a very strong case (going by memory) regarding this. They brought up Filomena's earlier statement about glass being in the middle and under the clothes as well as on top and they also cover her different statements on the shutters (open, one closed and one open, and closed but not tight). In addition they talk about Raffaele's previous non criminal history of break-ins (but don't address how that is possible-LOL). The expert they used (the one that did the video) was pretty much trashed in court. This Hendry guy would have been a better choice (or anyone with a forensics and engineering background).
 
Justinian2 said:
Thank you. It's the other window then. It seems like with the aid of a rope, someone could have hung from the gable to the left and walked himself to either wall, pulled the rock out of a pocket and smashed in the window.

Any rock climbers in the crowd?
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With his arm length he might have been able to reach the sill with his tip toes. Again, I am not the best judge of distances here.
 
RWVBWL said:
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Hello Danceme,
I just wanted to bring this up as another possible way that the glass might have come to be found in Miss Kercher's bedroom, for Postal Police Officer Battistelli was the first and only person, IIRC, to go into both rooms right when Miss Kercher was found.

I would think with a lot going on and 4 or more people in such a small area Officer Battistelli probably wouldn't have even noticed if he had a piece of glass on his shoe bottom. Heck, he might never even have stepped on it. But he could have...

One thing though, that I have a hard time trying to believe is that this police officer CAN NOT remember going into Miss Kercher's bedroom and lifting up the duvet and seeing her face. It directly contradicts what Luca Altieri said.

Officer Battistelli, when testifying, denied that he entered Miss Kercher's room. How many murders has this guy, a Postal Police Officer, been the first police officer onto the scene?
Yet he says that he didn't enter that room, lift the duvet and see Miss Kercher's face. Hmmm.
Who wouldn't remember seeing her face?

Why would he deny this?
Just because he was not supposed to and his boss would get mad?
Or maybe did he something else besides just look at her...
Heck, I wonder, did he pick up the bra clasp?
Isn't there DNA of a few other unidentified people on it?
Wouldn't that be something if his DNA is also on that bra clasp?
Hmmm...
RWVBWL

PS-So does anyone know off the top of their head if Postal Police Officer Battistelli also recieved a medal for a job well done?
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The bra clasp was found under the pillow which was under Meredith so it is doubtful that Battistelli picked it up.
 
RoseMontague said:
With his arm length he might have been able to reach the sill with his tip toes. Again, I am not the best judge of distances here.
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This method of break-in would have given Guede multiple egress paths. Were the police to pull up outside, a quick exit from the back would have been possible. Wasn't there a car parked outside?
 
christianahannah said:
The bra clasp was found under the pillow which was under Meredith so it is doubtful that Battistelli picked it up.
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Does anyone ever take their pillow into the living room and lay down on the sofa and watch TV? The sofa where Raffaele probably sat when he visited. And then took it back to the bedroom where later it was pressed with force onto the bra clasp. Possible DNA transfer? (just sayin)
 
RoseMontague said:
Does anyone ever take their pillow into the living room and lay down on the sofa and watch TV? The sofa where Raffaele probably sat when he visited. And then took it back to the bedroom where later it was pressed with force onto the bra clasp. Possible DNA transfer? (just sayin)
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I guess anything is possible.

What kind of DNA would Raffaele have left on the couch that would have been transferred to the pillow? And if that happened (transfer of DNA from Raffaele to couch to Meredith's pillow to bra clasp), I definitely wouldn't want the pillow tested if I were Raffaele's attorneys.
 
christianahannah said:
The bra clasp was found under the pillow which was under Meredith so it is doubtful that Battistelli picked it up.
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Hi Christianahanna,
I thought that was the case, but was just throwing it out there.

Do you agree though that it is mighty odd that this police officer, (who I would bet doesn't see many murders, since he is from the Postal Police), lied and said that he DID NOT go into Miss Kercher's bedroom and check on her?
Very strange, and I would imagine his superiors probably knew of this lie before hand...
Hmmm...
RWVBWL
 
LondonJohn said:
Wearing gloves and dry shoes to break into a house through a window is indicative of an extraordinary attention to detail? Really?

As for the rest, what if....what if..... the intruder entered the flat believing that he would be able to look for valuables undisturbed for at least, say, half an hour, given that it was a public holiday and there was nobody at home.

What if he then decided to use the toilet - possibly as a result of having eaten a kebab earlier that evening, possibly as a reaction to the adrenaline rush of the entry into the house, possibly as a subliminal form of territory marking?

What if one of the occupants of the house unexpectedly arrived back while the intruder was sitting on the toilet?

What if the intruder decided not to flush so as not to alert the newly-returned occupant to his presence?

What if the intruder tried to sneak quietly out of the front door, but found that it had been locked shut by the returning occupant?

What if a confrontation between the intruder and the occupant then took place, perhaps triggered by the intruder's demands for a key to be able to unlock the front door?

What if this confrontation then quickly escalated into a violent sexual assault, with the intruder wielding a knife and stabbing the occupant in the neck when she resisted?

What if this new turn of events completely changed the mindset of the intruder? What if he was now far less concerned with undertaking a methodical search of the cottage for valuables and cash? What if he was now chiefly concerned with cleaning his murder victim's blood from himself and getting away from the scene?

What if the intruder had blood on his hands, arms and clothes, and went to the small bathroom to wash himself? What if he removed a shoe to wash his trouser leg, then stepped in a blood/water mix pooling in the bowl of the bidet and then stepped onto the bathmat?

What if he then replaced his shoe(s) and returned to the murder room to take the phones, keys and credit cards? What if he then inadvertently stepped in the victim's blood on his way out, but was too focussed on getting away from the house to stop to clean up any more?
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Hi LondonJohn,
I would like to add something to this theory line that you forgot to mention, for it is kinda bugging me when I think of Rudy Guede being the 1 who stabbed Miss Kercher to her death.

After stabbing her, why the heck would Rudy have gone into the bathroom and grabbed towels to try to "save her", as he has said he did, and the evidence seems to prove?
Hmmm...
RWVBWL

PS-I am starting to really, really wonder if Rudy Guede did stab Meredith Kercher to her death.
But I do know that at some point after she was stabbed, he was inside of her house...
 
christianahannah said:
I guess anything is possible.

What kind of DNA would Raffaele have left on the couch that would have been transferred to the pillow? And if that happened (transfer of DNA from Raffaele to couch to Meredith's pillow to bra clasp), I definitely wouldn't want the pillow tested if I were Raffaele's attorneys.
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LOL,
Maybe he was sweating?

You have taken it to the next logical step, have you not (and I did not)?

Regarding my post................Never mind.
 
RoseMontague said:
I agree. I think the defense teams made some major mistakes both in what they did as well as what they did not do.
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Hi Rosemontague,
I agree 100%!
I also wish that Amanda Knox dressed more conservatively for ALL of her court appearances, and I hope she does so in the future...
RWVBWL
 
RWVBWL said:
Hi Rosemontague,
I agree 100%!
I also wish that Amanda Knox dressed more conservatively for ALL of her court appearances, and I hope she does so in the future...
RWVBWL
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In her last appearance this June I thought she was dressed very appropriately.

What she does in court, though, is damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't. If she is grave that can be misinterpreted as non-caring, without emotion, etc. If she cries she is putting on a show. I don't think she gets a fair representation on that count.
 
Justinian2 said:
This method of break-in would have given Guede multiple egress paths. Were the police to pull up outside, a quick exit from the back would have been possible. Wasn't there a car parked outside?
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Now that you mention it, he could have gone to the lower roof where that other window was and hung down and swung over from there. That would be 4 different methods of entry. Watching that video Charlie provided there are probably more.
 
RWVBWL said:
Hi LondonJohn,
I would like to add something to this theory line that you forgot to mention, for it is kinda bugging me when I think of Rudy Guede being the 1 who stabbed Miss Kercher to her death.

After stabbing her, why the heck would Rudy have gone into the bathroom and grabbed towels to try to "save her", as he has said he did, and the evidence seems to prove?
Hmmm...
RWVBWL

PS-I am starting to really, really wonder if Rudy Guede did stab Meredith Kercher to her death. But I do know that at some point after she was stabbed, he was inside of her house...
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There's a law of logic that says that the simplest solution is the correct solution. Two stabbers? Two murderers? Three murderers?

Solving engineering problems, I encounter false solutions all the time. I have to sometimes weed through dozens of likely possibilities before the real one emerges. Ya, an engineer is wrong all the time. That's why engineers don't rush to judgments or accept nebulous theories. They test, test, and test some more. Even when engineers have the correct solution, they try to understand the theory and why the other solutions didn't work.

I know engineers. Engineers are good friends of mine. Massei is NO engineer!

(Replace the word engineer with JFK and you have a famous quote.)
 
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RWVBWL said:
Hi Christianahanna,
I thought that was the case, but was just throwing it out there.

Do you agree though that it is mighty odd that this police officer, (who I would bet doesn't see many murders, since he is from the Postal Police), lied and said that he DID NOT go into Miss Kercher's bedroom and check on her?
Very strange, and I would imagine his superiors probably knew of this lie before hand...
Hmmm...
RWVBWL
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I have to admit I would think it strange if someone didn't at least step into the room upon finding Meredith.

I have doubts, (if he did indeed step into the room), that he went as far as the wardrobe to lift up the duvet. It would have been difficult not to have stepped in blood around Meredith and track it outside.

I am not exactly sure how far up or down the duvet was covering Meredith or the view from the door. It is very possible the officer was able to view the situation adequately from his position (right inside the door).
 
RoseMontague said:
LOL,
Maybe he was sweating?

You have taken it to the next logical step, have you not (and I did not)?

Regarding my post................Never mind.
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Don't say never mind Rose. I am glad we can discuss possibilities.

There are legitimate questions about this case on both sides. It helps to discuss those questions and determine what is possible and what is not.
 
christianahannah said:
In her last appearance this June I thought she was dressed very appropriately.

What she does in court, though, is damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't. If she is grave that can be misinterpreted as non-caring, without emotion, etc. If she cries she is putting on a show. I don't think she gets a fair representation on that count.
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Hi ChristianaHannah,
I agree with you completely...
I was just reading on Seattle PI that there will be a new judge for the appeals trial.

Candace Dempsey writes:
"Judge Sergio Matteini Chiari will preside, assisted by second judge Massimo Zanetti. In an odd twist, both are civil judges, not criminal."

Link:
http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/221712.asp

Interesting that the judges are civil, not criminal judges...
RWVBWL
 
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