Split Thread SAIC, ARA and 9/11 (split from "All 43 videos...")

[jammonius]

Making an exception to my rule about ignoring jammonius, just to see if any logic at all can penetrate:

jammonius, "daisy cutter" is a nickname, not an acronym (note the spelling). "Acronym" means that the initials of the word stand for something. From one online definition - "a word formed from the initial letters of the several words in the name."

DEW is an acronym for Directed Energy Weapon.

nickname ≠ acronym

Well done, Carlitos. Thank you for your clarifying post. It adds greatly to the thread. I, on the other hand, had been quite confused about nicknames versus acronyms.

 

[BigAl]

Well done, Carlitos. Thank you for your clarifying post. It adds greatly to the thread. I, on the other hand, had been quite confused about nicknames versus acronyms.

Not to be confused with initialisms .

 

[Myriad]

Ah, ha, at last, a post of substance that merits consideration and rebuttal. Thanks for posting that up, Myriad. Now, let's examine it, shall we:


That proposition is fine as far as it goes, but it does not go far enough. It may be true that DEW and especially the type used on 9/11 has not been put on display often, but "seldom" is not the same as "never." In fact, there is at least one other candidate event that has come to my attention. In 2004, there was an event in North Korea that was never fully explained. A train mysteriously exploded there that resulted in a degree of devastation that was never explained, and barely even revealed.

That event was a candidate for the type of DEW used to destory the WTC.

So, the point here is that the security of the secrecy of the kind of DEW used on 9/11 is equally explained by its infrequent use as it is by the proposition that it can never be used. After all, Myriad, the public has only a very short capacity of memory of events, right? Accordingly, infrequent use and use when only absolutely necessary can have the same effect of guarding of secrecy as can no use at all.

One other factor here, and there are many other factors worthy of consideration, is that weapons with hideously destructive capacity also have to be used infrequently simply for safety's sake. One can imagine that only a very, very few people have necessary security clearance to activate the kind of DEW used on 9/11. More frequent use could require more people to have the capability to operate the gizmos. Put it this way, we wouldn't want, say, some rogue Lt.Col. doing a Dr. Strangelove imitation on us, would we?

Recently, the 1960's classic movie "Fail Safe" aired on the free movie channel. That movie and Dr. Strangelove were similar. Fail Safe might actually be a better and more accurate metaphor for the concern for guarding the secrecy of and limiting the use of the kind of DEW involved in 9/11.

Here's a rhetorical query for you, Myriad: Can such weaponry destroy planet Earth if activated long enough and powerfully enough? I quickly add here that I do not know and am not suggesting that DEW have the capacity of, say, the 'death ray' in the movies.

The ultimate problem here is that because of MIC secrecy, we simply do not know.



I agree. However, the exception proves the rule. I also think that were it not for the calling of public attention to the proof that DEW destroyed the WTC on 9/11, that the weapon(s) might have already been used for other purposes. One candidate event that fits that description is the wanton destruction of Iran's nuclear plant at Beswhar.

It has been rumored for years that an attack on that facility would occur, yet, it still stands. I here submit that the best way to destory it would be with the same weapon used to destroy the WTC. But, if that were to happen, the telltale signs would be too apparent. And, tying this back into the suspected use in North Korea, Iran is not nearly as isolated as is North Korea and use on a train in the former country is not the same as use on a well known, iconic, nuclear plant in the latter country.

So, Myriad, it appears our thought pattern here does have some overlap. You say "never" and I say "seldom."



OK, good rhetorical inquiry, one supposes. However, I do question whether your attempt to defend the MIC by suggesting it is not as powerful as I (and before me and more effectively than me, Eisenhower) claimed it to be is appropriate. You should not defend the MIC, given what has transpired in the USA, including the false flag op of 9/11, the endless wars and war crimes since then and the bankrupting of the country. Those are serious events, Myriad.



Your conclusion does not follow, as I have explained. However, your thought process certainly adds to the quality of the discussion and I, for one, am grateful for it.

Ah, I think we're finally getting somewhere.

Though I am not aware of any WTC witnesses stating they heard the sound of a DEW, there were several who stated that the collapsing buildings sounded like a train. This testimony is a solid, immutable part of the historical record.

And now you point out that a train was mysteriously "destroyed" several years later in North Korea. What if this is not coincidence? Let's consider the very likely possibility that what really happened is that an unknown weapon sent the train several years back in time, to drop it on the World Trade Center on 9/11.

Were any of the thousands of trained forensic investigators who sifted through the rubble looking for Korean trains, or even briefed on what Korean train parts might look like? Very doubtful!

Be that as it may, I stand by what I said about secrecy for a DEW weapon. The moment a weapon system, any weapon system, is used (or otherwise announced), people start working out how to counter it. For a DEW they would analyze what type of energy it directs and at what wavelength, and how it physically affects a target, so as to figure out how materials might be made to absorb or reflect its effects. They would work out its likely power requirements, as part of figuring out how big it has to be, which affects where it is located and/or how it moves around, which is vitally important to know if you want to figure out how to destroy it. They would work out how much it would cost to build, to as to get a rough idea of how many of them exist and how long they would take to replace if destroyed. You have shown that you do not care about these concerns, but that doesn't change the fact that every military planner in the world would care a great deal. Every weapon system has weaknesses, and finding those weaknesses would become the #1 or #2 priority everywhere. (In the cases where it's #2, #1 would be duplicating its capabilities.)

So, once used, the new secret weapon system will never be as effective again. The first pilot in WWI to successfully mount a machine gun on a plane ruled the skies -- for the couple of weeks it took for other pilots and their engineers and mechanics to figure out how to mount machine guns on their planes. Thanks to the secret Manhattan Project, the US had strategic superiority after WWII, for the couple of years it took for the USSR to build a strategic deterrent force.

If someone secretly had a DEW capable of destroying skyscrapers, it would be used for winning a war (as with the atomic bomb), not starting one. It would be used to do something decisively valuable that could not be done any other way. Starting a war isn't difficult and would not require such an enormous sacrifice. It would be like cutting a swatch from the Mona Lisa to patch a pair of overalls.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[Oystein]

I see you continue to try mightily to ignore the MIC's role in the furtherance of DEW and of PSYOPs, the causal factors in what transpired on 9/11. That is too bad.

No, jammonius, I am taking it directly from your (Boeing YAL-1A) and Dr. Wood's (THEL) research results into the capabilities and capacities of the DEW, both as of recent years (ca. 2007 to today).
If you want to claim that mircaulously the MIC has increased the capacity of its weaponry by a factor of 100.000 and more, you ought to present liiiittle bit of proof.

So far, you are dwelling deep inside the realm of fantasy and fiction.

...
It may well be that what we are here confronted with is best represented by Mark Twain who is said to have said:

"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure and just ain’t so!"

I could not have said it better, kudos to Mr. Clemens!
If only you would heed the wisdom yourself that you bring to the table, jammonous

 

[Oystein]

As ever, just a friendly reminder that no one has definitively ruled out Mothra.

Or sharks with lasers.

Chuck Norris.
Blofeld and Dr. No
China or North Korea

But I still maintained it was the bulldozing industry with help from the Girl Scouts of America. Their capabilities and capacities have not been looked into. If they were magically increased 100.000-fold, boy, that would be an alliance you don't want to mess with!

 

[Oystein]

I'm waiting for jammy to deep-six the DEW idea and switch over to saying that Bono and U2 planned 9/11 just so they could play a super-awesome and emotionally binding set of songs at the Superbowl in January...

If the MIC can magically increase their DEW capacities by a factor of 100.000, retroactively even, then I am sure Super Bowl XXXVI was played in front of the entire population of this earth, seated in the Louisiana Superdome.
The Patriots beat the Rams 2.000.000 : 1.700.000.

 

[Oystein]

Posters, lurkers and victims family members,

The degree of ridicule being heaped around here...

...is well deserved.

 

[Sabretooth]

Chuck Norris.
Blofeld and Dr. No
China or North Korea

But I still maintained it was the bulldozing industry with help from the Girl Scouts of America. Their capabilities and capacities have not been looked into. If they were magically increased 100.000-fold, boy, that would be an alliance you don't want to mess with!

NSFW - Girl Scouts

 

[Oystein]

Excaza,
...
In joining in with the crowd that denies the existence of DEW ...

No one denies the existence of DEW. They exist as prototypes. Test device under development.
Thankfully, you and Dr. Judy Wood have posted up the current status of the research into the most advanced and most capable high-energy DEW programs today: The Boeing YAL-1A, and the Northop Grunman THEL.

We know pretty well their capacities: They can melt a few ounces of steel.

You and others are apparently in the same blissfully ignorant position with respect to DEW ...

The only one in a blissfully ignorant position with respect to DEW here is you, jammonius. You are a blissfully ignorant of the capacities of the most advanced high-energy DEW prototypes in the arsenal of the MIC today.
These are 5 orders of magnitude away from your delusions.

Or more to the point: Your blissfully ignorant delusions are 5 orders of magnitude removed from reality.

You try to lift 25.000 tons.
You try to make a snail race 300 miles in half an hour.
You try to seat the earths population in one football stadium.
You hope that a dime will buy you a nice new car.

You are deluded, jammonius.

Post up your evidence that the MIC has magically improved their DE capacities by more than 5 orders of magnitude.

Or shut up.

 

[excaza]

How does one "hear" DEW? Light doesn't make noise.

 

[Sabretooth]

How does one "hear" DEW? Light doesn't make noise.

Of course it does...haven't you watched Star Wars? That Death Star made all kinds of racket...in the vacuum of space!!!

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Of course it does...haven't you watched Star Wars? That Death Star made all kinds of racket...in the vacuum of space!!!

I was a witness to the demolition of the Death Star. Luke Skywalker was blazing a trail in that trench in his X-Wing fighter & shot some photon torpedoes into that 3 meter shaft. Then a few seconds later that massive sphere of destruction blew up.

Of course I could use Truther logic & say that the Death Star is like the Pentagon & that the photon torpedoes were cruise missles & that 3 meter hole was caused by the missile entering the building. Now I'm gonna go crazy just thinking that up. AHHHH! LOL!

 

[excaza]

Jammonious, was the laser beam from space as wide as the towers?

 

[Sabretooth]

I was a witness to the demolition of the Death Star. Luke Skywalker was blazing a trail in that trench in his X-Wing fighter & shot some photon torpedoes into that 3 meter shaft. Then a few seconds later that massive sphere of destruction blew up.

Of course I could use Truther logic & say that the Death Star is like the Pentagon & that the photon torpedoes were cruise missles & that 3 meter hole was caused by the missile entering the building. Now I'm gonna go crazy just thinking that up. AHHHH! LOL!

There's no way those photon torpedoes blew up that WHOLE space station! The rebels must have laced the skeleton structure with thermite...and kerosene...and suck-charges.

 

[jammonius]

Ah, I think we're finally getting somewhere.

Though I am not aware of any WTC witnesses stating they heard the sound of a DEW, there were several who stated that the collapsing buildings sounded like a train. This testimony is a solid, immutable part of the historical record.

Myriad, are you sure you want to go down the path of 'sound' as evidence? If so, you will be in for quite an awakening.

While there are, indeed, some valid and validly documented witnesses who describe hearing a "roar' and some who used the descriptor "train," most were surprised by the sound they heard, no matter how they described it.

Mainly, they were described at how quiet it was. Many used the words "eerie," "eerie silence," "strangely quiet" or variations on that theme to describe the sound. In fact, when the descriptions got a little too specific and a little too close to describing the effects of DEW and when all else failed, the testimony of valid witnesses was simply redacted and hidden from us. Set out below is the example of EMS Chief Walter Kowalczyk:

"I kept hearing the sound of -- I guess i t ' s t h e
sounds of s i l e n c e . But it wasn't s i l e n c e ; it was
a cloud j u s t coming down on us."

See: http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110095.PDF

pg. 10-22

For redactions in Chief Kowalcyzk's statement, see pgs. 9/22, 19/22, 20-22/22

And now you point out that a train was mysteriously "destroyed" several years later in North Korea. What if this is not coincidence? Let's consider the very likely possibility that what really happened is that an unknown weapon sent the train several years back in time, to drop it on the World Trade Center on 9/11.

Were any of the thousands of trained forensic investigators who sifted through the rubble looking for Korean trains, or even briefed on what Korean train parts might look like? Very doubtful!

I'm sorry, Myriad, I'm not able to fathom what you're getting at in the above. Would you care to come again, differently? Thanks

Be that as it may, I stand by what I said about secrecy for a DEW weapon. The moment a weapon system, any weapon system, is used (or otherwise announced), people start working out how to counter it. For a DEW they would analyze what type of energy it directs and at what wavelength, and how it physically affects a target, so as to figure out how materials might be made to absorb or reflect its effects. They would work out its likely power requirements, as part of figuring out how big it has to be, which affects where it is located and/or how it moves around, which is vitally important to know if you want to figure out how to destroy it. They would work out how much it would cost to build, to as to get a rough idea of how many of them exist and how long they would take to replace if destroyed. You have shown that you do not care about these concerns, but that doesn't change the fact that every military planner in the world would care a great deal. Every weapon system has weaknesses, and finding those weaknesses would become the #1 or #2 priority everywhere. (In the cases where it's #2, #1 would be duplicating its capabilities.)

Actually, you presume far too much. Further, I'm not sure what interest(s) you are seeking to advance. In some respects, the above can be interpreted as a justification for MIC secrecy. For instance, goodness knows that if $billions are spent seeking an advantage in weaponry of one sort or another, the last thing one would want would be for one's adversaries to have the opportunity to counter that advantage by developing counter measures.

However, in the absence of your confirming that you are engaging in a defense of or an apology for the MIC, I will not presume that that is what you really mean.

So, Myriad, what do you really mean?

So, once used, the new secret weapon system will never be as effective again. The first pilot in WWI to successfully mount a machine gun on a plane ruled the skies -- for the couple of weeks it took for other pilots and their engineers and mechanics to figure out how to mount machine guns on their planes. Thanks to the secret Manhattan Project, the US had strategic superiority after WWII, for the couple of years it took for the USSR to build a strategic deterrent force.

If someone secretly had a DEW capable of destroying skyscrapers, it would be used for winning a war (as with the atomic bomb), not starting one. It would be used to do something decisively valuable that could not be done any other way. Starting a war isn't difficult and would not require such an enormous sacrifice. It would be like cutting a swatch from the Mona Lisa to patch a pair of overalls.

Respectfully,
Myriad

Your grasp of strategic consideration is useful but not determinative. For instance, it has been observed, I seem to recall, that the "shock & awe" resulting from the display of the hideously powerful DEW used on 9/11 could also serve to further the coverup. For instance, if China, Russia, Iran and/or North Korea did suspect DEW and did want to develop countermeasures to it, one way to do so would be to keep quiet about it so that the US would think its DEW apparatus would not be countered.

Secrecy begets secrecy and more secrecy, Myriad. Isn't that the key message of antiwar flicks like Dr. Strangelove and Fail Safe, afterall?

Respectfully,
jammonius

 

[excaza]

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Lyrandar]

I suppose that right here and right now we need to establish perspective on how to read unclassifed and/or declassified military documents. At the outset, let's be clear about the meaning of the words:

UNCLASSIFIED
DE-CLASSIFIED
CLASSIFIED
TOP SECRET

Yeah, you missed two separate layers: FOUO (For Official Use Only) and other controlled unclassified information - not classified, but not distributed to anyone that doesn't need it - and Secret level information directly below Top Secret. Also, the lowest level of classified information is more properly called Confidential.

This doesn't give me much confidence that you understand how the system in general works if you can somehow miss an entire level.

Taken as a whole, those words are, first and foremost, a clear and direct repudiation of a free nation, living in a democracy. What they actually stand for is this and only this:

The people of America can only know what a small group of people within the MIC want us to know about DEW.

*sigh*... the government likes to keep its secrets. Sometimes this is bad, but other times it allows us to keep our people safe. It is possible to take this too far and become paranoid about threats, but in many cases the government preventing secrets from reaching those threatening forces is exactly what prevents US citizens from dying. It's a necessary evil.

Your grasp of strategic consideration is useful but not determinative. For instance, it has been observed, I seem to recall, that the "shock & awe" resulting from the display of the hideously powerful DEW used on 9/11 could also serve to further the coverup. For instance, if China, Russia, Iran and/or North Korea did suspect DEW and did want to develop countermeasures to it, one way to do so would be to keep quiet about it so that the US would think its DEW apparatus would not be countered.

No, you've missed the point. Myriad's point wasn't that using it will make hiding it from the general public more difficult. The point was that it will make hiding it from other countries that will use the information against us more difficult. Wouldn't it be better to not use it at all, not give these other countries any reason to suspect and therefore not give them any reason to develop countermeasures?

In the end, the point of classified information is not to hide the government's actions from the populace, but to hide the government's actions from forces that could use that knowledge to attack the government and US society as a whole.

 

[Oystein]

This just occurred to me:

Maybe jammonius' delusions are 5 orders of magnitude removed from reality because is active brain is 5 orders of magnitude removed from a sane human brain? Instead of 1300ccm of functioning brain only 0.013ccm brain? That would be the brain of a small bird...

 

[Andy_Ross]

What happened to the aircraft if the didn't hit the towers? What happened to the crew and passengers?

 

[Oystein]

What happened to the aircraft if the didn't hit the towers? What happened to the crew and passengers?

In the real world, the flight from Boston to Los Angeles takes about 6 hours 20 minutes.
In jammo-world, which is 5 orders of magnitude removed from reality, it takes 72 years and 6 months. After 9 years, it has gone only 12.5% of the distance yet. A little east of Scranton, Western Pennsylvania, I'd say.