Split Thread SAIC, ARA and 9/11 (split from "All 43 videos...")

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But I have a gruesome fact for you, jammonius: when you set people aflame with jet fuel, the burn! I would have to do some research (the kind done to figure out how they pulled off Auschwitz), but am fairly certain that the average human releases more energy simply by burning to ashed than the most advanced DEW of our time can unleash on a target!
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Yeah, I went down that road...

I flipped a little through Wikipedia and also googled food calorie tables to come up with the following numbers for 1 human adult:

Average weight: about 70kg
Body containsm, on average, about
25% fat - 17,5kg
40% muscles - 28kg
14% bones - 9.8kg
21% rest - 14,7kg (skin, organs blood...)
57% water - 39.9kg

From a table of food calories I get the following ebergy contents, in kilo-Joules per gram:
bacon: 33kJ/g
lean meat (muscle): 5kJ/g
I made the following assumptions:
bones: 0kJ/g
rest: 3kJ/g (it's organic matter, after all)

Do the math: That's 7,62*108 Joules of energy per person


Alright, when a human body burns, you need to cook off the water first, to make it burn. How much energy must we subtract for that? Let's see...
To heat 1 gram of water by 1°C: 4.18J
Bodies are already at 36°C, so to heat body water to 100°C (boiling point), we need
64°C * 39900g * 4.18J/g/°C = 10.674.048J
In addition, we need to add energy to transition water from liquid to steam, and need for that
40.657 kJ/mol or, since 1mol of water is 18g, 2.259kJ/g
That's 39900g * 2.259kJ/g = 90.134.100J
To boil off the water of an average adult, that's a total of 10.674.048J + 90.134.100 J = 100.808.148J


This gives us a net chemical energy per human body of
7,62*108J - 1.01*108J = 6,61*108 Joules

Compare this to the capacities and capabilities of the most advanced high-energy DEW in the arsenal of the MIC today:
Power: on the order of 5MW
Can shoot pulses of 5s duration
= Releases energy amount of 5.000.000W * 5s = 2.5*107 Joules
(1J = 1W*s)



jammonius: Your best DEW can direct an amount of energy at a target that is about 4% of the energy you get from burning 1 human body.

But there were more than 2000 people who burnt to bones in the event!
This alone released 50.000 times as much energy as the most advanced high-energy DEW can!
 
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Yeah, I went down that road...

I flipped a little through Wikipedia and also googled food calorie tables to come up with the following numbers for 1 human adult:

Average weight: about 70kg
Body containsm, on average, about
25% fat - 17,5kg
40% muscles - 28kg
14% bones - 9.8kg
21% rest - 14,7kg (skin, organs blood...)
57% water - 39.9kg

From a table of food calories I get the following ebergy contents, in kilo-Joules per gram:
bacon: 33kJ/g
lean meat (muscle): 5kJ/g
I made the following assumptions:
bones: 0kJ/g
rest: 3kJ/g (it's organic matter, after all)

Do the math: That's 7,62*108 Joules of energy per person


Alright, when a human body burns, you need to cook off the water first, to make it burn. How much energy must we subtract for that? Let's see...
To heat 1 gram of water by 1°C: 4.18J
Bodies are already at 36°C, so to heat body water to 100°C (boiling point), we need
64°C * 39900g * 4.18J/g/°C = 10.674.048J
In addition, we need to add energy to transition water from liquid to steam, and need for that
40.657 kJ/mol or, since 1mol of water is 18g, 2.259kJ/g
That's 39900g * 2.259kJ/g = 90.134.100J
To boil off the water of an average adult, that's a total of 10.674.048J + 90.134.100 J = 100.808.148J


This gives us a net chemical energy per human body of
7,62*108J - 1.01*108J = 6,61*108 Joules

Compare this to the capacities and capabilities of the most advanced high-energy DEW in the arsenal of the MIC today:
Power: on the order of 5MW
Can shoot pulses of 5s duration
= Releases energy amount of 5.000.000W * 5s = 2.5*107 Joules
(1J = 1W*s)



jammonius: Your best DEW can direct an amount of energy at a target that is about 4% of the energy you get from burning 1 human body.

But there were more than 2000 people who burnt to bones in the event!
This alone released 50.000 times as much energy as the most advanced high-energy DEW can!

I see you continue to try mightily to ignore the MIC's role in the furtherance of DEW and of PSYOPs, the causal factors in what transpired on 9/11. That is too bad.

I also note, for instance, that the fate of WTC3, the 22 story Marriott Hotel, remains a complete and abject mystery. Where did it go, posters, lurkers, victims family members? Neither ARA nor SAIC explained its disappearance in the NIST report.

It may well be that what we are here confronted with is best represented by Mark Twain who is said to have said:

"It ain’t what you don’t know that gets you into trouble. It’s what you know for sure and just ain’t so!"
 
That's because the MIC and their DEW's didn't play a role on 9/11.

OK, posters, lurkers and victims family members; hear this:

In the above quote of Sabretooth, we have the perfect denouement of the entire 9/11 debate; namely: Simple denial.

Inexplicable annihilation and undeniable financial gain (consisting in unquestioned, unlimited, unending funding for unquestioned, unlimited, unending $$ spending on warring) go unacknowledged, unexamined and unresolved by that denial.

Posters, lurkers and victims family members, you can continue to avoid the real and live with the emotional benefit of the unreal for just so long as you can.

good luck
 
OK, posters, lurkers, victims family members & dimwitted Truthers; hear this:

In the above quote of Jammonius, we have the perfect denouement of the entire 9/11 debate; namely: Simple denial.

Inexplicable annihilation and undeniable financial gain (consisting in unquestioned, unlimited, unending funding for unquestioned, unlimited, unending $$ spending on warring) go unacknowledged, unexamined and unresolved by that denial.

Truthers, you can continue to avoid the real and live with the emotional benefit of the unreal for just so long as you can. That DEW's don't exist according to this 2007 unclassified document:

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/ADA476320.pdf

Good luck proving that DEW's were used on 9/11!
 
Chewy's DEW pdf

OK, Chewy, thanks for the compliment of imitation of my post. Your post offers up for consideration the following document link:

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/reports/ADA476320.pdf

It is a 97 pg. 3.48meg unclassified military document on Directed Energy Weaponry (DEW).

It's title is:

"Defense Science Board Task Force on Directed Energy Weapons"

It is not all clear how you come to the conclusion DEW do not exist based on that title from that unclassified document.

I suppose that right here and right now we need to establish perspective on how to read unclassifed and/or declassified military documents. At the outset, let's be clear about the meaning of the words:

UNCLASSIFIED
DE-CLASSIFIED
CLASSIFIED
TOP SECRET


Taken as a whole, those words are, first and foremost, a clear and direct repudiation of a free nation, living in a democracy. What they actually stand for is this and only this:

The people of America can only know what a small group of people within the MIC want us to know about DEW.

That is freightening, could more of us but realize it. Nothing that is presented to us in the realm of "unclassified" can be accepted as true by definition. By definition what is unclassified is incomplete, limited and intentionally misleading.

The classification system is designed to decieve. That is the point.

Information that is declassified is considered innocuous, out of date, harmless and therefore useless. It, too, serves to deceive rather than inform, let alone illuminate.

Next up is classified information that is somewhat restricted, but not fully restricted. Its purpose is to enable those who have to work in furtherance of deployment or development know what they need to know. Yet, even there, the ultimate purpose consists mostly in deception as even people who know a bit don't know enough to figure out what is actually going on.

That is how 9/11 and other false flag operations can be carried out without resulting in sickness and depression among those who carryout such things.

Next is the top secret area and even there the existence of multiple layers of secrecy of compartmentalization and, therefore, deception continue apace, such that next to no one knows what's really going on.

It is within that context that Chewy's claim that DEW don't exist must be considered.

Even though this thread has now moved up to a count of several hundred posts, very few of them have actually sought to place the matter of the MIC and the dangers it poses to us in proper perspective. Many posters here continue to defend the MIC, even though the MIC exists in a context where the nefarious leadership within it can deceive us with impunity.

Therein lies the danger, posters.
 
Let me get this straight, jammy...

Just because there is no documentation and no proof that DEW's that contain enough energy to destroy WTC exists...that means they do exist and it proves your theory?
 
As ever, just a friendly reminder that no one has definitively ruled out Mothra.

Or sharks with lasers.
 
.......

Good luck proving that DEW's were used on 9/11!

You know, Chewy, the above portion of your post is highly intriguing. It is quite sad, really. It sounds almost as if you are reveling in the fact that little public information has been made available to us about speed of light weaponry (DEW) that could, conceivably, destroy the planet, for all we know.

It is as if you are taunting us in or inability to get to the truth about DEW and the deployment of such hideous weapons and of what caused the annihilation of the WTC complex on 9/11.

I think your priorities are a bit warped, but hey, I know most people around here whole heartedly agree with you and disagree with me; and, therein lies a real story. The nature of that story is the degree to which people willingly ignore, disregard and reject the Eisenhower admonition about the MIC, irrespective of the fact that we are told on almost a daily basis that we aren't allowed to know what is going on.

Most things involving weaponry are secret, especially DEW.

That should not be alright with you, Chewy and I am very sorry for you that it apparently is alright with you. :boggled:
 
As ever, just a friendly reminder that no one has definitively ruled out Mothra.

Or sharks with lasers.

I'm waiting for jammy to deep-six the DEW idea and switch over to saying that Bono and U2 planned 9/11 just so they could play a super-awesome and emotionally binding set of songs at the Superbowl in January...
 
Posters, lurkers and victims family members,

The degree of ridicule being heaped around here, irrespective of the plain as day need to focus on uncovering what the MIC hides from us is very telling. In addition to having to contend with the military classification system, we also have to overcome attempts to make it difficult to see what has been revealed about that system.

See, for instance:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6343394

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185933
 
I submit that this devotion to secrecy by the MIC is strong evidence against DEW's having been used on 9/11.

The best way to hide the existence and specific capabilities of a weapon system is to not use it. Using the system and then covering up afterward is an inferior plan when the goal is secrecy.

Would the mighty MIC choose an inferior plan when a superior one was available?

Of course not. The MIC, by not using directed energy weapons on 9/11 in any way whatsoever, made certain that the secrecy of the DEW capabilities would not be compromised.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 

Excaza,

If you're really interested in finding out about DEW, why don't you ask (yourself) the proper inquiries.

For instance, it is to be hoped that you know at least a little bit about the annual budget, publicly available and black ops, spent on DEW.

In joining in with the crowd that denies the existence of DEW you, and they, should at least have satisfied yourselves and posted up your proofs that not much money is being spent on such weaponry, but you have not done that. Instead, up til now, you've merely posted up bland, uninformed denials of DEW.

You and others are apparently in the same blissfully ignorant position with respect to DEW as you are with respect to, say, who financed 9/11. For ready reference concerning your not having the foggiest clue about who financed 9/11, let me remind you:

"To date, the U.S. government has not been able to determine the origin of the money used for the 9/11 attacks."

http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/911_TerrFin_App.pdf

pg 14/22

Permit me to suggest that in denying the existence of DEW, please inform yourselves a little bit on the amount of money annually spent on such nonexistent weapons and do not allow yourselves to be as ignorant about that as you are about who financed 9/11.

Put even more plainly, some of you should begin to at least pretend that you care a little bit about the degree of secrecy associated with the MIC, including its financing. After all, if you don't care, the MIC will simply continue to take more, demand more and do more false flag ops.

After all these pages in this thread, what has anyone, other than me, looked up concerning ARA and SAIC? Based on the posting, it appears very little has been ascertained, other than what I have provided.

I point blank told posters that "19 Arabs with boxcutters" is likely the literal truth of what destroyed the WTC; namely, 19 people with the requisite top secret clearance, of which at least one worked for ARA and where "boxcutters", like, say, the acyrnym "daisy cutters" is a nickname for the kind of DEW used to carryout the annihilation of the WTC. Yet, that post was assigned to AAH and no one even protested. That is telling.

Since you're curious enough to continue to ask me to go off on wild goose chases for you, what, exactly, is the state of your knowledge concerning MIC giants SAIC and ARA?

Surely you have some interest in what those companies do with so much of your public money, right? :boggled:
 
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My last observation was sent to AAH, but I think it was fair. "boxcutters" or "daisy cutters" as "acronyms" for DEW, which is itself an acronym, is ... to put it delicately, not well thought-out.
 
And the usual word salad non-answer. I'm so surprised. I don't get what's so hard about answering a direct question.
 
Ah, ha, at last, a post of substance that merits consideration and rebuttal. Thanks for posting that up, Myriad. Now, let's examine it, shall we:


I submit that this devotion to secrecy by the MIC is strong evidence against DEW's having been used on 9/11.

That proposition is fine as far as it goes, but it does not go far enough. It may be true that DEW and especially the type used on 9/11 has not been put on display often, but "seldom" is not the same as "never." In fact, there is at least one other candidate event that has come to my attention. In 2004, there was an event in North Korea that was never fully explained. A train mysteriously exploded there that resulted in a degree of devastation that was never explained, and barely even revealed.

That event was a candidate for the type of DEW used to destory the WTC.

So, the point here is that the security of the secrecy of the kind of DEW used on 9/11 is equally explained by its infrequent use as it is by the proposition that it can never be used. After all, Myriad, the public has only a very short capacity of memory of events, right? Accordingly, infrequent use and use when only absolutely necessary can have the same effect of guarding of secrecy as can no use at all.

One other factor here, and there are many other factors worthy of consideration, is that weapons with hideously destructive capacity also have to be used infrequently simply for safety's sake. One can imagine that only a very, very few people have necessary security clearance to activate the kind of DEW used on 9/11. More frequent use could require more people to have the capability to operate the gizmos. Put it this way, we wouldn't want, say, some rogue Lt.Col. doing a Dr. Strangelove imitation on us, would we?

Recently, the 1960's classic movie "Fail Safe" aired on the free movie channel. That movie and Dr. Strangelove were similar. Fail Safe might actually be a better and more accurate metaphor for the concern for guarding the secrecy of and limiting the use of the kind of DEW involved in 9/11.

Here's a rhetorical query for you, Myriad: Can such weaponry destroy planet Earth if activated long enough and powerfully enough? I quickly add here that I do not know and am not suggesting that DEW have the capacity of, say, the 'death ray' in the movies.

The ultimate problem here is that because of MIC secrecy, we simply do not know.

The best way to hide the existence and specific capabilities of a weapon system is to not use it. Using the system and then covering up afterward is an inferior plan when the goal is secrecy.

I agree. However, the exception proves the rule. I also think that were it not for the calling of public attention to the proof that DEW destroyed the WTC on 9/11, that the weapon(s) might have already been used for other purposes. One candidate event that fits that description is the wanton destruction of Iran's nuclear plant at Beswhar.

It has been rumored for years that an attack on that facility would occur, yet, it still stands. I here submit that the best way to destory it would be with the same weapon used to destroy the WTC. But, if that were to happen, the telltale signs would be too apparent. And, tying this back into the suspected use in North Korea, Iran is not nearly as isolated as is North Korea and use on a train in the former country is not the same as use on a well known, iconic, nuclear plant in the latter country.

So, Myriad, it appears our thought pattern here does have some overlap. You say "never" and I say "seldom."

Would the mighty MIC choose an inferior plan when a superior one was available?

OK, good rhetorical inquiry, one supposes. However, I do question whether your attempt to defend the MIC by suggesting it is not as powerful as I (and before me and more effectively than me, Eisenhower) claimed it to be is appropriate. You should not defend the MIC, given what has transpired in the USA, including the false flag op of 9/11, the endless wars and war crimes since then and the bankrupting of the country. Those are serious events, Myriad.

Of course not. The MIC, by not using directed energy weapons on 9/11 in any way whatsoever, made certain that the secrecy of the DEW capabilities would not be compromised.

Respectfully,
Myriad

Your conclusion does not follow, as I have explained. However, your thought process certainly adds to the quality of the discussion and I, for one, am grateful for it.

Respectfully,
jammonius
 
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My last observation was sent to AAH, but I think it was fair. "boxcutters" or "daisy cutters" as "acronyms" for DEW, which is itself an acronym, is ... to put it delicately, not well thought-out.

Daisy cutter is, in fact, an acyrnym or nickname for a particular kind of bomb.

See: "BLU-82"

I'm suggesting that "boxcutter" works the same way; namely, as an unknown nickname for the type of DEW used to destroy the WTC.

Certainly, Carlitos, if a building is a "box" then what happened to the WTC buildings fits the description of their having been "cut".

I don't think it necessary to dwell upon this overmuch. One either gets it, one supposes, or one doesn't. :p
 
Daisy cutter is, in fact, an acyrnym or nickname for a particular kind of bomb.
Making an exception to my rule about ignoring jammonius, just to see if any logic at all can penetrate:

jammonius, "daisy cutter" is a nickname, not an acronym (note the spelling). "Acronym" means that the initials of the word stand for something. From one online definition - "a word formed from the initial letters of the several words in the name."

DEW is an acronym for Directed Energy Weapon.

nickname ≠ acronym
 

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