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A Qur'an Got Burnt at 9/11 Mosque Protest

If you were living in this world or knew anything about creeping Islam in the West then you already have known these are happening. You did not have to ask me sources.
But here they are, anyway.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...xt-years-ramadan/story-e6frf7kx-1225924291675

Sherene Hassan, vice-president of the Islamic Society of Victoria, said she didn't support the dress restrictions.

"My preference would be that no dress code is stipulated," Ms Hassan said.

My God, just look at those Muslims, trying to Islamize the West!

No wonder I couldn't find it. It didn't say what you said it said

Skeptic and I have had multiple clashes here over our often extreme differences of opinion. There's not a whole hell of a lot we see eye-to-eye on. But he's completely right about what Thunder was saying in his now-exiled-to-AAH posts.

Gee. Muslims threatening violence for people insulting them. Strange thing, considering what a religion of peace Islam is.

*sigh*
 
The ban on skimpy clothes will apply between 6.15 and 8.15pm on August 21 next year, a time when the pool is closed to the public and normally used by a Muslim women's swimming group.

How can someone be mad when it's normally closed for a swimming group. The only thing they ask for in return is that you respect their beliefs! I don't find that offensive at all...
 
...

A New Jersey Judge said Muslim Husband can beat his wife to have sex because their religion allows it.

...

US Supreme court justice Brayers is not sure if we have freedom of speech to burn a quran.

I have a particular interest in law. Please provide more information.

I doubt the first happened at all.
 
The ban on skimpy clothes will apply between 6.15 and 8.15pm on August 21 next year, a time when the pool is closed to the public and normally used by a Muslim women's swimming group.

I find that odd. If it's closed to the public and normally used by a Muslim women's swimming group, why is the ban necessary? If all the Muslim women are covering up, a ban is redundant. If some Muslim women are covering up, and some Muslim women aren't, then the ban is not forcing non-Muslims to follow Muslim rules, but forcing some Muslims to follow the rules laid down by other Muslims, which I strongly disagree with. Exemptions to the Equal Opportunities Act shouldn't even be used to support members of one religious group over non-members, much less to support members of one subsect over another subsect of the same religion. As the article notes, that sets a dangerous precedent, so it's no wonder local Muslim groups aren't happy with the decision either.
 
I have a particular interest in law. Please provide more information.

I doubt the first happened at all.

It happened, though naturally the link provided put the worst spin possible on events.

A judge in New Jersey ruled that the husband had committed harassment and assault on his wife, but not sexual assault or criminal sexual contact because (as the judge said) the husband's religious beliefs meant that the required "criminal intent" under the law for those charges was not met (that is, that the husband didn't mean to knowingly commit sexual assault because he believed that what he was doing was not a sexual assault). The judge also declined to issue a restraining order, saying that since the husband and wife were now divorced and living apart, the likelihood of a repeat of the assault was low so a protection order was unnecessary.

It was appealed, and an appellate court overturned the judge, basically saying he not only was he completely wrong about the "criminal intent" requirement, but that he was incorrect to exempt the husband from the laws against sexual assault and criminal sexual contact because of the husband's beliefs (the appellate court ruled that simply knowingly committing the act itself was evidence enough of "intent", regardless of what the husband may have believed about the act). They also said the judge was wrong in his refusal of a protective order, since there would still be contact between husband and wife despite the divorce because of the fact that they had a child together, and given that the husband sexually assaulted her once already, she was right to be concerned and to want a protective order against him.

Here's the text of that appeals decision.
 
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Gee. Muslims threatening violence for people insulting them. Strange thing, considering what a religion of peace Islam is.

Here is the only actual part of the article that had Muslims "threatening violence":
Last week Spain's intelligence agency, the National Intelligence Centre (CNI), alerted the owners to threats being made online.
Intelligence chiefs warned owners they were being targeted by extremists who claim the disco is insulting to their religion.
Hackers broke into the nightclub's website and posted a video threatening 'a great war between Spain and the people of Islam' if the venue did not change its name.


From the rest of the article article:
Today the owners, said to include former Real Madrid goalkeeper Santiago Canizares, agreed to change the club's name after meeting with local Muslim leaders.

Moderate Spanish Muslims also called for the name to be changed.

Mohamed Ali, head of the Spanish Federation of Islamic Religious Entities said: 'Muslims pray towards Mecca and it is there that the prophet received the holy Koran.

'Calling a place for dancing and drinking by that name shows disregard to the feelings of Muslims.'

Some Muslims have also objected to the design of the club, which is adorned with minarets in the style of a mosque.

The local Islamic Federation of the Region of Murcia consulted lawyers who planned to sue the club for insulting the honour of their religion.

This week Iranian station Radio Islam described the name as 'insulting' and Dubai-based Arabic news channel Al Arabiya, the second largest in the Arabic world, said it 'insulted Spanish Muslims'.

Facebook pages have been set up demanding the name is changed.


Facebook pages and lawsuits? That's some serious violence right there.
 
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Here is the only actual part of the article that had Muslims "threatening violence":

There's also this:
Intelligence chiefs warned owners they were being targeted by extremists who claim the disco is insulting to their religion.
Hackers broke into the nightclub's website and posted a video threatening 'a great war between Spain and the people of Islam' if the venue did not change its name.
 
I find that odd. If it's closed to the public and normally used by a Muslim women's swimming group, why is the ban necessary? If all the Muslim women are covering up, a ban is redundant. If some Muslim women are covering up, and some Muslim women aren't, then the ban is not forcing non-Muslims to follow Muslim rules, but forcing some Muslims to follow the rules laid down by other Muslims, which I strongly disagree with. Exemptions to the Equal Opportunities Act shouldn't even be used to support members of one religious group over non-members, much less to support members of one subsect over another subsect of the same religion. As the article notes, that sets a dangerous precedent, so it's no wonder local Muslim groups aren't happy with the decision either.[/Q

The ban is necessary because it's not in a closed group anymore and they don't know who will show up, but they still want the dresscode of their swimming group. I can agree with you that you shouldn't force someone to wear a specific clothing but then you have to take away the dresscode on certain nightclubs and accept that you can show up to court in a t-shirt.
 
I have a particular interest in law. Please provide more information.

I doubt the first happened at all.

A Muslim woman was denied a restraining order against her husband. He had beaten and raped her and all of it was medically documented. The judge had agreed with the crimes committed, but claimed that under Sharia law he could not issue the order because it was the man's religious right to beat and rape his wife. And this was AFTER they got divorced.

"The court believes that [defendant] was operating under his belief that it is, as the husband, his desire to have sex when and whether he wanted to, was something that was consistent with his practices and it was something that was not prohibited."

Luckily an appeals court overturned the ruling.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/08/05/advocates-anti-shariah-measures-alarmed-judges-ruling/
 
A Muslim woman was denied a restraining order against her husband. He had beaten and raped her and all of it was medically documented. The judge had agreed with the crimes committed, but claimed that under Sharia law he could not issue the order because it was the man's religious right to beat and rape his wife. And this was AFTER they got divorced.

"The court believes that [defendant] was operating under his belief that it is, as the husband, his desire to have sex when and whether he wanted to, was something that was consistent with his practices and it was something that was not prohibited."

That's not really an accurate summation. EDIT: And it's absolutely false that the judge said that "under Sharia law he could not issue the order because it was the man's religious right to beat and rape his wife". The original judge's ruling had nothing whatsoever to do with sharia, but with how the judge felt that the statutes as written by the legislature should be applied.

As noted in the appellate court decision, the original judge felt that the sexual assault statues required "criminal intent", and ruled that the defendant's religious beliefs meant that such intent was not present. He didn't say the Muslim man had the "right" to rape and beat his wife, but that his religious beliefs meant that his actions were assault, but not sexual assault under the strict definitions of the law (as that particular judge interpreted the sexual assault law, at least).

This court does not feel that, under the circumstances, that this defendant had a criminal desire to or intent to sexually assault or to sexually contact the plaintiff when he did. The court believes that he was operating under his belief that it is, as the husband, his desire to have sex when and whether he wanted to, was something that was consistent with his practices and it was something that was not prohibited.

The appellate court pointed out that such an interpretation was massively incorrect, of course, when they overturned his decision.

The trial judge found as a fact that defendant committed conduct that constituted a sexual assault and criminal sexual contact, but that defendant did not have the requisite criminal intent in doing so. His conclusion in this respect cannot be sustained. N.J.S.A. 2C:2-2c(3) establishes the principle that criminal statutes that do not designate a specific culpability requirement should be construed as requiring knowing conduct.

"A person acts knowingly with respect to the nature of his conduct or the attendant circumstances if he is aware that his conduct is of that nature, or that such circumstances exist . . . . [N.J.S.A. 2C:2-2b(2).]"

Defendant's conduct in engaging in nonconsensual sexual intercourse was unquestionably knowing, regardless of his view that his religion permitted him to act as he did.

As the judge recognized, the case thus presents a conflict between the criminal law and religious precepts. In resolving this conflict, the judge determined to except defendant from the operation of the State's statutes as the result of his religious beliefs. In doing so, the judge was mistaken.

...

Because it is doubtlessly true that the laws defining the crimes of sexual assault and criminal sexual contact are neutral laws of general application, and because defendant knowingly engaged in conduct that violated those laws, the judge erred when he refused to recognize those violations as a basis for a determination that defendant had committed acts of domestic violence.

In this context, we note, as well, the Legislature's recognition of the serious nature of domestic violence, the responsibility of the courts to protect victims of such violence and its directive that the remedies of the PDVA be broadly applied. See N.J.S.A. 2C:25-18, quoted at length earlier in this opinion. The Legislature's findings and declaration provide an additional basis for the rejection of the judge's view of defendant's acts as excused by his religious beliefs, and for a recognition of those acts as violative of New Jersey's laws.

In addition, that reasoning, legally (and morally) flawed as it was, was only why the domestic violence part of the suit was dismissed. The judge's stated reasoning for denying the protective order had nothing to do with the defendant's religious beliefs.

In this particular case, this court does not believe that a final restraining order is necessary under the circumstances. There's no need for the parties to be associated with one another. They are divorced now. They don't live together. They don't have to be together. . . .

[T]his was a situation of a short-term marriage, a very brief period of physical assault by the defendant against the plaintiff and it's now a situation where the parties don't live together, won't be living together and won't have a need to be in contact with one another.

Under those circumstances, the court finds that a final restraining order is not necessary to prevent another act of domestic violence. The Court will not enter a final restraining order.

The appellate court smacked down the judge for that fallacious reasoning as well, saying:

The judge's ruling raises several areas of concern that we regard as warranting reversal and a remand to permit the entry of a final restraining order. We construe the judge's characterization of the violence that took place as a bad patch in the parties' marriage and plaintiff's injuries as not severe as manifesting an unnecessarily dismissive view of defendant's acts of domestic violence. Although it is true that the November episodes spanned only three weeks, that period constituted approximately one-fourth of the parties' marriage. Moreover, we find it significant to the issue of whether a final restraining order should have been granted that the violence resumed on the very first night of the parties' reconciliation, and after defendant had assured the Imam that he would not engage in further such acts. We additionally note plaintiff's testimony that the significant bruising to her body shown on the photographs taken on November 22 merely represented the remnants of the bruising inflicted on November 1 and 16. In our view, the abuse that took place in this case was far removed from the domestic contretemps found not to constitute abuse in cases such as Kamen v. Egan, 322 N.J. Super. 222, 227-28 (App. Div. 1999); Corrente v. Corrente, 281 N.J. Super. 243, 248-50 (App. Div. 1995); and Peranio v. Peranio, 280 N.J. Super. 47, 54-56 (App. Div. 1995). We are also concerned that the judge's view of the facts of the matter may have been colored by his perception that, although defendant's sexual acts violated applicable criminal statutes, they were culturally acceptable and thus not actionable — a view that we have soundly rejected.

Note especially the last sentence (EDIT: the appellate court, I should add, did have concerns that the judge's view that the defendant's actions were "culturally acceptable" colored his perceptions, despite the fact that the judge didn't actually say so in his denial of the protective order).

Luckily an appeals court overturned the ruling.

Absolutely. The original judge made a horrifically dumb series of rulings all around, and they were justly, firmly, and rather definitively smacked down by the appeals court.

So, as an example of the dangers of encroaching Islamization of the West, this particular case seems rather lacking.
 
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Harrumph! I am not so sure, ANTPogo. Yes, the judge -- a you said -- did not apply sharia law, nor did he intend to, nor did he declare it gives anybody a "right" to beat their wives. The problem is, he was extremely considerate to a violent wife-beater merely because the wife-beater's religion, Islam, was part of the reason he believed wife-beating is OK.

But every wife-beater thinks who beats his wife for not having sex with him thinks he has a right to sex. Every wife-beater has some reason why he thinks that his wife must have sex with him whenever he feels like it or else she has it coming to her to be beaten for non-compliance. Isn't it part of one's wifely duties to have sex with one's husband? Does not St. Paul tell women to be subservient to their husbands and obey them? And so on.

So if this standard is applied consistently, no wife-beater should ever be convicted of sexual assault. They all believe they deserved the sex from their wife and they all believe they have a right to beat her if she doesn't obey. Why give Muslim wife-beaters a special status, as the original trial judge did? Because the reason for the belief is their religion? So what?

Oh, and P.S.

As usual this ruling, while on the face of it discriminatory against non-Muslims, is subtly bigoted against Muslims. Other people are supposed to control themselves and not beat their wives for not having sex with them even if they think they have a right to it; Muslims, apparently, lack this ability to control their desires.

It's a bit like those idiots who see every Black / poor / gay / whatever victim group criminal as merely a "victim of society" who just has no choice but to commit crimes in order to "protest the system". The bottom line, of course, is that Blacks (or whatever group that is thus "defended") are subhumans who should be avoided, because they simply cannot stop themselves from committing crimes.
 
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Gee. Muslims threatening violence for people insulting them. Strange thing, considering what a religion of peace Islam is.

Gee. Christians murdering doctors and raping children. Strange thing, considering what a religion of compassion Christianity is.
 
So, as an example of the dangers of encroaching Islamization of the West, this particular case seems rather lacking.

I think it's a major red flag. If a judge at even a lower court level is that outwardly, well, wrong, I wonder how pervasive the attitude is? Not everyone has the resources to take these things through appeals. You can look at it as an isolated event - even the very first one, and it may very well be. I don't think it is. How many other rulings were influenced by this wrong-headed thinking? How about police interventions?

I don't know the answer, but I don't think we should stop looking simply because a higher court righted the wrong.
 
Harrumph! I am not so sure, ANTPogo. Yes, the judge -- a you said -- did not apply sharia law, nor did he intend to, nor did he declare it gives anybody a "right" to beat their wives. The problem is, he was extremely considerate to a violent wife-beater merely because the wife-beater's religion, Islam, was part of the reason he believed wife-beating is OK.

But every wife-beater thinks who beats his wife for not having sex with him thinks he has a right to sex. Every wife-beater has some reason why he thinks that his wife must have sex with him whenever he feels like it or else she has it coming to her to be beaten for non-compliance. Isn't it part of one's wifely duties to have sex with one's husband? Does not St. Paul tell women to be subservient to their husbands and obey them? And so on.

So if this standard is applied consistently, no wife-beater should ever be convicted of sexual assault. They all believe they deserved the sex from their wife and they all believe they have a right to beat her if she doesn't obey. Why give Muslim wife-beaters a special status, as the original trial judge did? Because the reason for the belief is their religion? So what?

I completely agree with you, and am totally behind the decision of the appeals court. And, really, your reasoning is pretty much why they decided the way they did (suitably spiced up with references to similar decisions, of course).

The appeals court recognized that the first judge's decision was about religious belief in general when they cited all those other court cases in their decision overturning it - all of them involved non-Muslim religious beliefs. The issue with this particular judge's decision, for them, was not that it was a Muslim saying he didn't have to follow the law because Islam dictated otherwise, but an individual saying he didn't have to follow the law because his religious beliefs (of whatever stripe) dictated otherwise.

The appeals court didn't care one whit about the fact that it was Muslim beliefs that were central in this case; it was just as irrelevant to why and how they ruled as the fact that it was Mormon beliefs (or Jehovah's Witness beliefs or whatever) that were central in the cases they cited.

That's why this ruling was not an issue of sharia law (well, not solely sharia law), because what was at stake was that the judge's decision would be applied consistently if it were upheld, and cited in court by lawyers for fundamentalist Baptists accused of wife-beating as much as by lawyers for fundamentalist Muslim wife-beaters. There was no material difference in the appellate court's eyes between a Muslim belief and a non-Muslim belief when it came to whether the law should apply to a defendant or not. And they, like you, said "Hell yes the law should apply even if you think otherwise for any reason, because to do otherwise is a bad idea for everyone concerned."

Oh, and P.S.

As usual this ruling, while on the face of it discriminatory against non-Muslims, is subtly bigoted against Muslims. Other people are supposed to control themselves and not beat their wives for not having sex with them even if they think they have a right to it; Muslims, apparently, lack this ability to control their desires.

It's a bit like those idiots who see every Black / poor / gay / whatever victim group criminal as merely a "victim of society" who just has no choice but to commit crimes in order to "protest the system". The bottom line, of course, is that Blacks (or whatever group that is thus "defended") are subhumans who should be avoided, because they simply cannot stop themselves from committing crimes.

I agree.
 
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I think it's a major red flag. If a judge at even a lower court level is that outwardly, well, wrong, I wonder how pervasive the attitude is? Not everyone has the resources to take these things through appeals. You can look at it as an isolated event - even the very first one, and it may very well be. I don't think it is. How many other rulings were influenced by this wrong-headed thinking? How about police interventions?

I don't know the answer, but I don't think we should stop looking simply because a higher court righted the wrong.

Because, as I noted, the core issue for the courts (even the original judge) was not Muslim beliefs, but religious beliefs in general. And, as you'll note from the various court cases involving Christian denominations that the appeals court cited in their decision overturning this one, a lot of claims by those Christians that their particular religious beliefs meant that a law did not apply to them made it all the way to the Supreme Court. Meaning that, unlike in this case involving a Muslim defendant, the Christian defendants' claims had been upheld by numerous lower courts.

It's kind of dumb to freak out about finding a single carpenter ant eating away at the frame of your house when it's already infested by dozens of termites. Sure, the carpenter ant represents a potential problem, but the termites will destroy your house long before the ants do.
 

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