Is Communism Synonymous With Atheism?

[Flo]

I'm an atheist, I'm not, never have been, never will be a communist. Most communists I know are catholics, and a couple buddhists ...

 

[TubbaBlubba]

I intend to vote for the Communist Party in the regional elections. And the former communist party in the governmental elections.


Ha ha ha.

 

[Mister Agenda]

Mmm...not a Communist. Not even close.

 

[PixyMisa]

That's an implication that is as much ridiculous as the messiahs of atheism themselves. Synonyms exist coz there are differences.

Not necessarily.

If one word could exactly describe what is to be described, then there would be no synonyms.

Why do you say that? Particularly with respect to English.

If one religions would satisfy the insane inclinations of Homos sapiens, then there would be only one religion and atheism would not exist.

Another unsupported assertion.

Unfortunately it did and does, but castrated by its collapse in Eastern Europe. That's the good news.

Communism collapsed in Eastern Europe. Atheism is doing just fine. So, clearly, the two are not synonyms.

If I say that "atheism" is a synonym to "communism"

You'd simply be wrong.

Atheism is a position on belief in a class of supernatural entities.

Communism is a failed system of political economy.

then I can't possibly claim that ALL atheists are communists, coz the majority of synonyms do not have an IDENTICAL meaning to begin with.

Let's look up actual synonyms for communism, shall we?

Bolshevism, Leninism, Marxism, collectivism, rule of the proletariat, socialism, state ownership, totalitarianism

All Bolsheviks, Leninists and Marxists are communists. All communists are socialists. Totalitarianism seems a bit odd here, but communist states tend towards totalitarianism, pretty much invariably.

Where does atheism fit in here?

It doesn't.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I would generally agree that communism implies atheism (although the state and particually the leaders will often encourage pseudo-religious symbolism as a control mechanism) but the reverse is definately not true so a 'No' from me.

Marx's 'religion is the opium' of the people is often taken as an overtly anti-religious remark but isn't really as strong as it is taken in a modern context. Opium was awonder drug in it's time and his comment can be interpretted more that religion provides the prolitariate with pain relief that will no longer be required when the source of their pain (ie the bourgoise) is removed. Rather than calling for the supression of religion it is really not dissimilar to the common atheistic position that belief in gods will naturally decline in an educated population.

In the UK during the 70's & 80's the younger generation of Anglican priests were notoriously left wing and the recent ostensibly left of center Labour Government was the most religious for more than a century.

 

[Pup]

Atheism in the communist countries was an active pseudo religion that chased theists around.

If you'd stopped right there, I think you could make a defendable point from that. The kind of atheism that communist countries used was indeed an active pseudo religion, where one should "worship" the state leaders and certain ideals rather than god.

But that kind of atheism is/was just a tiny subset of atheism as a whole, just as any particular religious sect is a tiny subset of deism as a whole.

Honestly, taken to its logical conclusion, I'd say that Christianity and similar religions lead directly to communism. Everyone being equal brothers and sisters under God, humility and generosity rather than seeking after personal wealth, and so forth, all are ideals leading toward communism.

The problem with taking atheism to its logical conclusion is that there's no direction. It's like saying, what would a religion that's not Christian be like? It could be like anything.

 

[Weak Kitten]

I think we need to define communism a bit better. The basic idea of communism is older than Marx and has shown up in a great many small religious communities over the centuries. It is, as Pup pointed out, a natural progression from the peaceful and giving philosophy of many religious groups. One could argue that many monasteries are essentially communist in their financial setup. I know there are small communist communities in Israel, called Kibbutz, which are very much Jewish.

So, are we talking about communism at it's most basic as an economic philosophy or are we only talking about Marxist communism?

 

[TubbaBlubba]

However, Marxist communism - communism as it is mostly understood - is an explicitly atheistic ideology. It might be possible to not be an atheist and to be a communist, but not without losing some detail along the way.

Well, not STRICTLY. Marx believed religion was nothing but a propaganda tool and that it would disappear as a country grew more socialized. I don't think he found the active abolishment of religion necessary, but I could be wrong on this. I don't know what Lenin's view on it was, but I suspect it has influenced the idea of what Marx's idea of it was more than Marx himself, so to saw.

 

[westprog]

So, are we talking about communism at it's most basic as an economic philosophy or are we only talking about Marxist communism?

Marxist communism. Otherwise we just go around in circles trying to distinguish between the two - as I know to my cost. Marxist communism is the big political movement of the twentieth century, so it's worth considering on its own.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Is Planet-X in this poll a synonym for "Communist" China?

 

[westprog]

Well, not STRICTLY. Marx believed religion was nothing but a propaganda tool and that it would disappear as a country grew more socialized. I don't think he found the active abolishment of religion necessary, but I could be wrong on this. I don't know what Lenin's view on it was, but I suspect it has influenced the idea of what Marx's idea of it was more than Marx himself, so to saw.

Marxism is a fairly complete system - economics, philosophy, politics, sociology. In a philosophical sense, it subscribes to an atheistic, materialistic viewpoint. Marx certainly didn't regard this as being disposable, and people who apply some of Marx's thinking without including the atheism aren't really Marxists, or communists.

That doesn't mean that a communist regime would necessarily suppress religion - but that's how it's worked out in practice. It would require that people running the government - the dictatorship of the proletariat - would need to be Marxist in approach, and hence atheists. And again, that's how it's worked out in practice.

 

[Travis]

Where did Epix state that we are only talking about a strictly Marxist type of Communism?

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Marxism is a fairly complete system - economics, philosophy, politics, sociology. In a philosophical sense, it subscribes to an atheistic, materialistic viewpoint. Marx certainly didn't regard this as being disposable, and people who apply some of Marx's thinking without including the atheism aren't really Marxists, or communists.

That doesn't mean that a communist regime would necessarily suppress religion - but that's how it's worked out in practice. It would require that people running the government - the dictatorship of the proletariat - would need to be Marxist in approach, and hence atheists. And again, that's how it's worked out in practice.

Fair enough that if you subscribed to Marxism entirely you'd need to abolish religion, but it wouldn't necessarily include the complete elimination of all religious institutions - Rather they would go away anyway.

 

[sthomson]

Where did Epix state that we are only talking about a strictly Marxist type of Communism?

Yeah, there's some weird logic going on here:

All Communists are Marxist (wrong)
All Marxists are atheists (less wrong, but still wrong)
Therefore all atheists are communist (!!!)

 

[Twiler]

I'm an atheist and a socialist. Socialism != Communism, and I am not a communist in addition to being a socialist. Therefore, the claim is false.

And even if I'm lying, there's no reason why one viewpoint necessitates the other. An atheist can have many different characteristics, and need not be a communist. A theist can simply worship a deity that promotes communism and be a communist.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Where did Epix state that we are only talking about a strictly Marxist type of Communism?

In the post that led me to create this poll.

On the eastern front, you can't have a revolution and establish the dictatorship of the proletariat, coz the emperors rule and are created by God's decision. But what if there is no God? Then you can storm the Winter Palace anytime you please. Learn the lesson from French Revolution -- Karl Marx did so did Vladimir Ilyich Lenin. Communism and atheism are effective synonyms, but with feudalism no longer at the chessboard, the practical link is no longer there.

 

[HansMustermann]

If you'd stopped right there, I think you could make a defendable point from that. The kind of atheism that communist countries used was indeed an active pseudo religion, where one should "worship" the state leaders and certain ideals rather than god.

1. Dictators of all orientations made cults of personality around themselves, not only the commies. Stalin and Mao aren't the only ones. In fact, you can find it all over history all the way back to the first recorded history in Sumer, and all over the place from Europe to Egypt to China to Japan. In short, it's not even something characteristic to communism, and

2. nor even having as much to do with atheism or replacing religion. Before communism, the ostensibly uber-religious Czars made themselves head of the chuch, proclaimed themselves chosen by God (as did most European medieval kings for that matter), and brutally suppressed anyone who disagreed.

Hitler was as ostensibly Catholic and doing God's work as it gets in public speeches, but formed a cult of personality around himself taken to ridiculous extremes.

As did dictators, emperors, etc, again all over the time and geography.

3. Except for the part that it never really worked that way.

I keep hearing this fundamentally western version where people assume that the common man or woman on the street actually worshipped Stalin. It's even been posten in a thread here in the history forum at one point.

But if you actually ask a few Russians (or even better, ask a few Ukrainians), you'd find out that the common guy/gal on the street didn't give a flying f-word about whoever was comrade Secretary General, much less worship him.

The cults of personality everywhere, Eastern Europe included, are mostly show-business for the benefit of the guy in power. People took part in it in as much as they had to -- or for some in as much as it helped them climb the hierarchy of sycophants -- but I don't think anyone actually took Stalin for a sort of Jesus.

That cult of personality could not be a substitute for religion, because it wasn't even a show for the same people. While religion was something for the common guy to believe in, or as Marx put it, "opium for the people", that cult of personality essentially did anything at all for exactly one guy: the dictator. It was Stalin's personal opium. The people were more or less just actors by necessity in it, but it really wasn't doing that much for them.

 

[westprog]

Yeah, there's some weird logic going on here:

All Communists are Marxist (wrong)

That's just a matter of definition. The word "communist" as commonly understood refers to Marxists.

All Marxists are atheists (less wrong, but still wrong)

It's possible to be a Marxist and not an atheist, but not without inherent contradiction. Marxism is inherently atheist.

Therefore all atheists are communist (!!!)

 

[sthomson]

That's just a matter of definition. The word "communist" as commonly understood refers to Marxists.

Ah, population error. For many people, "Communism" is properly understood to mean Stalinism. For others, it means the Communist Party of the Soviety Union or the US. For serious political scholars (I like to include myself), it encompases the entire political philosophy of small-c communism. It has been stated several times, truly, that a communist society can be organized under the banner of a religion, or under the banner of religious tolerance.

An analogy: Would you make the argument that "capitalist" is commonly understood to mean "Libertarian"?

It's possible to be a Marxist and not an atheist, but not without inherent contradiction. Marxism is inherently atheist.

Already been debunked several times in this thread. Marx himself was an atheist and dismissive of religion. That does not mean that all Marxists are Atheists.

An analogy: James Randi is an atheist - does that mean that all skeptics are atheists?

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

That's just a matter of definition. The word "communist" as commonly understood refers to Marxists.

A number of socialist movements in Latin America are not atheistic yet are commonly understood as communist in popular US usage. Among which circle are we understanding the common meaning for communist? Though admittedly, the same usage might not come with recognition of the religious elements of said movements.

It's possible to be a Marxist and not an atheist, but not without inherent contradiction. Marxism is inherently atheist.

The goal of Marxists is not to be more like Marx, it is to enact their perception of his economic-political ideals. Atheism was not a central tenant of Marx' economic-political ideals, more of a predicted result. Some students of Marxism embraced a form of atheism into their ideals as a method of removing religious influence, others take dfiferent stances.