Why did the Jews leave Auschwitz

[Meadmaker]

As I've participated in the couple of active holocaust denial threads, I've run across all sorts of things with which I wasn't familiar, or of which I had at best a superficial knowledge. I've learned a lot in doing so, but I have run across one tidbit of information I hadn't known before, and which puzzles me.

According to accounts, as the Soviet army approached Auschwitz, the Germans decided to pull out. There were roughly 67,000 inmates, mostly Jews of course, in the camp at the time. The Germans gave those inmates a choice. They could stay at Auschwitz, or they could retreat with the Germans.

To me, that seems a rather easy choice. After some time in Auschwitz, you would think that life with the Nazis would be a very clearly bad idea, to be avoided if at all possible, regardless of the alternative. Obviously, though, the Jews didn't agree. Of the 67,000 inmates, 60,000 chose to march off through the snow toward trains that would take them westward with the Nazis.

The choice didn't work out so well, in a manner that seems rather predictable in hindsight. 10,000 died on the march, either of exhaustion/exposure, or murdered by guards as they fell behind, unable to keep up the pace. The rest were shipped westward, to Belsen and possibly some other places, where many died.

So, why did they make that choice? I can think of several plausible explanations, but I wonder if any survivors have addressed that in their published memoirs. Why did so many of them, given a chance to wave goodbye to the retreating Nazis, follow them, instead, on a path that led thousands to their death?

 

[Zep]

Offered a choice by the Nazis?? Walk or say hello to Mr Schmeisser?

 

[rjh01]

Maybe they did not have much of a choice. Just finished reading "The second world War - A complete history" by Martin Gilbert. He says they did not have a choice at all.

 

[Thunder]

According to accounts, as the Soviet army approached Auschwitz, the Germans decided to pull out. There were roughly 67,000 inmates, mostly Jews of course, in the camp at the time. The Germans gave those inmates a choice. They could stay at Auschwitz, or they could retreat with the Germans.

evidence?

 

[Vortigern99]

In Art Spiegelman's MAUS (Vol. II, pp. 80-82), Vladek Spiegelman reports that no choice was given. Here is the account:

NARRATOR (Vladek): "It was very near the end, there in Auschwitz."

EXPLOSION: "BOOM"

PRISONER: "You hear that, Vladek? The front is no more than 25 miles away... if we can stay alive a little bit longer, the Russians will be here."

NARRATOR (Vladek): "This boy worked in the office and knew rumors."

PRISONER: "The Germans are getting worried. The big shots here are already running back into the Reich. They're planning to take everybody here back to camps inside Germany. Everybody! But a few of us have a plan... we're not going!"

[... VLADEK and the other PRISONER arrange to hide in an attic of one of the blocks with seven others. From the attic window they watch the chaos of the scene outside.]

NARRATOR (Vladek): "Screaming Gestapo chased everywhere. Each prisoner got a bread, a sausage and a kick out, out the gate, to march. Then this guy from the office ran in...

OFFICE PRISONER: "Terrible news! We have to leave! They're going to set fire to the camp and bomb all the blocks! HURRY!"

NARRATOR (Vladek): "Finally they didn't bomb, but this we couldn't know. We left behind everything [all the food, clothing and identity papers which the nine prisoners had stowed in the attic], we were so afraid, even the civilian clothes we organized. And ran out! It was already night, they gave to each of us a blanket and a little bit food to carry, and we went out from Auschwitz, maybe the last one.

"All night I heard shooting, he who got tired, who can't walk so fast, they shot. The more we walked, the more I heard shooting..."​

Clearly, in Spiegelman's account, the prisoners were given no choice. They had to march, and those that couldn't keep the pace were murdered where they stood.

 

[Meadmaker]

evidence?

I've read it in several places, most recently here:

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/auschwitzscrapbook/history/Articles/Liberation.html


This page quotes both Elie Weisel and Otto Frank (father of Anne) as saying there was a choice.

The context is somewhat unclear. It is possible that rather than "given a choice" what was really meant is that the evacuation was hasty, and some prisoners realized there was an opportunity to escape the forced evacuation, by simply not reporting.

 

[Meadmaker]

After further review, it appears that there is a reasonable explanation.

It appears that an order was sent to kill everyone but, for whatever reason, it was not carried out. Instead, it was chosen to evacuate the camp by forced march. Meanwhile, there was a sick barracks, (referred to in denier sites I have read as a "hospital", but my guess is it wasn't exactly the sort of top notch place that takes the best insurance plans.) The people in that barracks appear not to have been ordered away. Wiesel and his father discussed whether to evacuate with the rest, or stay there. They chose to evacuate.

I'm guessing that, based on previous history, they figured that people who were too sick to travel and were left behind as the SS ordered everyone out of camp didn't have much of a chance of survival, so they figured their odds were better on the march.

 

[Zep]

Perhaps this is the absolute definition of being caught "between a rock and a hard place".

They could have tried to stay and wait for the antisemitic Russian assault troops to peacefully liberate them, or they could submit at gunpoint to their insane antisemitic Nazi captors' demands. All while in the middle of a massive, raging, moving battlefront between frantic and frankly insane armies. The world was going to hell in a handbasket around them, so no doubt logical choices would have been easy.

 

[plumjam]

From the website:

In his book entitled "Night," Elie Wiesel wrote the following regarding his decision to join the Germans on the march out of Auschwitz:

The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him (his father) entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. "Well, what shall we do, father?" He was silent. "Let's be evacuated with the others," I told him.


Women who stayed behind in the Birkenau barracks
Around 60,000 prisoners chose to go with the Germans and many of them didn't survive the march. Those who couldn't keep up were shot and their bodies were left in the snow. Many more died on the trains taking them to Dachau, Buchenwald, Bergen-Belsen or Mauthausen. Otto Frank chose to stay in the camp and he survived.

Yeah, if this is true I find it puzzling.
Perhaps they realised there would be no food if they stayed in Auschwitz.
But then again, if I'd been there I reckon I'd have taken my chances with freedom and a spot of cannibalism.
After all, they'd have known that people falling behind in the winter march would be summarily shot.

*shrug*

 

[Bythemark]

Then again, they probably didn't trust the Nazis with such a display of apparent "friendliness" as it were. To a lesser extent, mob mentality combined with an urge to be out of Auschwitz could have been more important than leaving the Nazis.

 

[Meadmaker]

Then again, they probably didn't trust the Nazis with such a display of apparent "friendliness" as it were. To a lesser extent, mob mentality combined with an urge to be out of Auschwitz could have been more important than leaving the Nazis.

That was my initial impression. However, it appears that this "choice" may have only been offered to those in the sick barracks, where both Frank and Wiesel were at the time of the evacuation. From my reading, many people referred to the sick barracks as "the waiting room for the gas chambers." The prisoners there may have had a reasonable fear that anyone who was too sick to join the forced march would have been killed, so those capable of walking may have joined the march to avoid what seemed likely to be the last mass execution at Aushwitz.

What we know for certain is that there were 7,000 living prisoners left in Auschwitz when the Russians came. It seems likely that those 7,000 could have chosen to join the march, if they were capable of walking. If anyone knows of a first hand account from someone who had such a choice, and explained the reason for the choice he made, I would like to read it.

ETA: Deniers particularly like to talk about Wiesel, noting that he was receiving medical treatment at the time, but chose to join the Germans rather than wait for the Red Army. Obviously, they say, this proves that Auschwitz was not so bad. Somehow, I'm guessing that's not really it, but I would like some first hand refutation of that line of argument.

 

[gtm]

Primo Levi narrates this episode in some detail in 'If this is a Man'. They were forced to march towards Germany although the prisoners in the camp hospital were left behind. I get the impression the situation was pretty chaotic & it was possible to stay by hiding somewhere or other in the camp.

No doubt 9/11 investigator will claim that they couldn't bear to be parted from their generous & kind hearted holiday camp advisors (like redcoats at Butlins but in black'n'deathshead uniforms)

 

[Schrodinger's Cat]

It was a mix, from what I've read. Some people were herded at gunpoint without much choice, but from the survivor accounts I have read, definitely some had a choice- either because they were in the hospital wing, or they had opportunities to run and hide in the melee of the evacuation.

In a biography of Otto Frank I read (Anne Frank's father) he stated that he tried to convince Peter Van Pels (who had hid with him in the Amsterdam attic) to stay in Auschwitz rather than evacuate the camp. Peter and others who wanted to evacuate were sure that either the Nazis or the Russians would bomb or burn down the camp. Otto Frank was sure the evacuation would turn into a death march. It turns out Otto was right. He survived; Peter van Pels did not.

IIRC this was also the case with Elie Wiesel and his father. They chose to leave because they were sure the Nazis would kill anyone who stayed, and thought they had a better chance evacuating.

I honestly don't know what I would have done in this situation. I feel like either the Nazis or Russians destroying the camp or the evacuation being an evacuation to their doom would have seemed equally likely to me.

 

[Bythemark]

That was my initial impression. However, it appears that this "choice" may have only been offered to those in the sick barracks, where both Frank and Wiesel were at the time of the evacuation. From my reading, many people referred to the sick barracks as "the waiting room for the gas chambers." The prisoners there may have had a reasonable fear that anyone who was too sick to join the forced march would have been killed, so those capable of walking may have joined the march to avoid what seemed likely to be the last mass execution at Aushwitz.

What we know for certain is that there were 7,000 living prisoners left in Auschwitz when the Russians came. It seems likely that those 7,000 could have chosen to join the march, if they were capable of walking. If anyone knows of a first hand account from someone who had such a choice, and explained the reason for the choice he made, I would like to read it.

ETA: Deniers particularly like to talk about Wiesel, noting that he was receiving medical treatment at the time, but chose to join the Germans rather than wait for the Red Army. Obviously, they say, this proves that Auschwitz was not so bad. Somehow, I'm guessing that's not really it, but I would like some first hand refutation of that line of argument.

Well, his stories about Auschwitz tend to be fairly negative.

The mob mentality and all that can apply to the sick people too, but the fear of being killed (as I think you mentioned earlier) probably would play a role.

 

[Dogzilla]

In Art Spiegelman's MAUS (Vol. II, pp. 80-82), Vladek Spiegelman reports that no choice was given. Here is the account:

NARRATOR (Vladek): "It was very near the end, there in Auschwitz."

EXPLOSION: "BOOM"

PRISONER: "You hear that, Vladek? The front is no more than 25 miles away... if we can stay alive a little bit longer, the Russians will be here."

NARRATOR (Vladek): "This boy worked in the office and knew rumors."

PRISONER: "The Germans are getting worried. The big shots here are already running back into the Reich. They're planning to take everybody here back to camps inside Germany. Everybody! But a few of us have a plan... we're not going!"

[... VLADEK and the other PRISONER arrange to hide in an attic of one of the blocks with seven others. From the attic window they watch the chaos of the scene outside.]

NARRATOR (Vladek): "Screaming Gestapo chased everywhere. Each prisoner got a bread, a sausage and a kick out, out the gate, to march. Then this guy from the office ran in...

OFFICE PRISONER: "Terrible news! We have to leave! They're going to set fire to the camp and bomb all the blocks! HURRY!"

NARRATOR (Vladek): "Finally they didn't bomb, but this we couldn't know. We left behind everything [all the food, clothing and identity papers which the nine prisoners had stowed in the attic], we were so afraid, even the civilian clothes we organized. And ran out! It was already night, they gave to each of us a blanket and a little bit food to carry, and we went out from Auschwitz, maybe the last one.

"All night I heard shooting, he who got tired, who can't walk so fast, they shot. The more we walked, the more I heard shooting..."​

Clearly, in Spiegelman's account, the prisoners were given no choice. They had to march, and those that couldn't keep the pace were murdered where they stood.

You know that MAUS is a comic book, don't you? (excuse me, a "graphic novel") And blatantly ailurophobic one at that. You're quoting from an ailurophobic comic book?

 

[Roadtoad]

As Zep pointed out, it was either "rock" or "hard place."

You have one group which actively killing you right now, and another group which has historically conducted pogroms to kill you and your family. Who would you trust in such a situation?

 

[Dogzilla]

From the website:



Yeah, if this is true I find it puzzling.
Perhaps they realised there would be no food if they stayed in Auschwitz.
But then again, if I'd been there I reckon I'd have taken my chances with freedom and a spot of cannibalism.
After all, they'd have known that people falling behind in the winter march would be summarily shot.

*shrug*

Starvation wasn't rampant at Auschwitz when the Soviets liberated the camp. That was a problem in the western camps at the end of the war after Germany's infrastructure had been destroyed.

I find this quote from Elie Wiesel particularly illuminating: "The choice was in our hands. For once we could decide our fate for ourselves. We could both stay in the hospital, where I could, thanks to my doctor, get him (his father) entered as a patient or nurse. Or else we could follow the others. "Well, what shall we do, father?" He was silent. "Let's be evacuated with the others," I told him."

The doctor at Auschwitz was willing to lie so Elie and his father could stay together? And Elie was in the hospital recovering from a foot operation, too injured to perform any labor but not so weakened that he couldn't join the others on the 'death march' to Buchenwald?

This is the place where all Jews were "selected" for work and those who couldn't work were sent to the gas chamber? What kind of a half-assed genocide were the Nazis running here?

These kind of facts are the reason Elie Wiesel is recognized as a fraud and a charlatan by everybody, especially holocaust scholars. Any denier who brings up Elie Wiesel can be dismissed with a hand wave and accusations of erecting a straw man.

 

[Meadmaker]

As Zep pointed out, it was either "rock" or "hard place."

You have one group which actively killing you right now, and another group which has historically conducted pogroms to kill you and your family. Who would you trust in such a situation?

I would still like to see a first hand account from someone who felt he had a choice, and why he made the choice that he made, but it seems fairly clear what happened.

First, the prisoners weren't actually given a choice, as in some kind Nazi coming in and telling them. "Well, the Russians are coming. You can stay here, or come with us to camps in Germany." Most of the prisoners were ordered out with the usual aid of machine guns and boots. Somehow, the "hospital" barracks weren't included in the evacuation. I'm not sure how that went down. Did someone tell them to leave, but not enforce the order? i.e. They never showed up and told the prisoners to get out. However, the prisoners in the sick barracks faced a difficult choice. Based on previous Nazi behavior, they had good reason to believe that they would not be left behind and allowed to live. They had good reason to fear the Nazis would kill anyone who stayed behind.

As if that weren't bad enough, the Russians who were approaching weren't exactly well known for their kindness toward Jews.

And if that weren't bad enough, the Russians wouldn't necessarily get there that day, and the Poles from the surrounding arean weren't known for their kindness toward Jews.

And, even if everyone left them alone, they didn't have any food anyway.

So, it seems that only a small fraction of the prisoners had any available choice at all, and those people who had a choice could look at all of their options and see death as the most likely outcome of any of them, but they could try and guess which one had a better chance than the others.

I think I would have chosen to stay at the camp. I could expect to die, but at least I wouldn't have to walk through the snow to do it.

 

[Vorticity]

You know that MAUS is a comic book, don't you? (excuse me, a "graphic novel") And blatantly ailurophobic one at that. You're quoting from an ailurophobic comic book?

A comic book it may be, but the story contained therein is Art Speigelman's father Vladek's own firsthand account of his time at Auschwitz. I see no reason to treat it as any more or less valid than any other eyewitness account. The cat/mouse dynamic is merely a nod to the nature of the format.

 

[Dogzilla]

As if that weren't bad enough, the Russians who were approaching weren't exactly well known for their kindness toward Jews.

And if that weren't bad enough, the Russians wouldn't necessarily get there that day, and the Poles from the surrounding arean weren't known for their kindness toward Jews.

With Auschwitz being the death factory that it was and the Nazi plan to exterminate all the Jews, there could not have been very many Jews left in Auschwitz when the Russians arrived. See The Law Reports of the Trials of War Criminals, specifically the Zyklon B Trial. According to the British (who held this trial) Auschwitz was a place where Zyklon B murdered 4.5 million "...people from the occupied territories of Europe, including Czechs, Russians, Poles, French, Dutch and Belgians, and people from neutral countries and from the United States."

Jews are mentioned in here but they were not the primary victims by a long shot. To be fair to the Brits, this trial was held in March 1946. Polish Jews were still streaming into the DP camps in western Germany and the situation in Europe was still so chaotic that nobody could possibly estimate the Jewish losses.