Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris C]

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Here's a November 2nd photograph of the cabinet at the back of the bathroom, next to the shower. A convenient spot to store towels. The top surface looks suspiciously blank, for a small bathroom shared by two young women. Compare this surface with the shelf above the sink (photograph at PMF) which is congested with various soaps, sprays, creams, powders, etc. that women are fond of.

[qimg]http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Amanda_Knox_-_Bathroom_Fallacy_-_What_Amanda_Saw_WMV_V9_00014.jpg[/qimg]

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Actually, Rudy told police that he grabbed the towels out of that Bathroom to help stop Meredith's bleeding. So its not suspiciously blank, since its known that he took those towels. What i'm asking was there anything else missing. Was it entered into evidence that towels, or rags. Something that could have been used in the cleanup. Because we know the towels from that bathroom where brought to Meredith by Rudy. His own admission and he hasn't taken it back. Which means those towels where already in Meredith's room when this supposed clean up the prosecution claimed happened. This same clean up also happened after Rudy left, so any mention of the towels in Meredith's room had to happen before he left. So therefore those towels where not used to help clean up.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Massei's mental maneuverings

I've been lurking here for most of this thread. If Amanda's appeal fails will those who believe her innocent change their minds, or will she always be innocent in your eyes?

lionking,

Have you been lurking for the last 50 pages or so? If so, what do you think of Massei's reasoning about not testing the semen stain, comments to the effect that 11 loci are good enough, even when 6 or so are disputed (with respect to the bra clasp DNA), etc. Every time I read a section of this report, I am less convinced of the soundness of the court's judgment.

 

[LondonJohn]

____________________________

Here's a November 2nd photograph of the cabinet at the back of the bathroom, next to the shower. A convenient spot to store towels. The top surface looks suspiciously blank, for a small bathroom shared by two young women. Compare this surface with the shelf above the sink (photograph at PMF) which is congested with various soaps, sprays, creams, powders, etc. that women are fond of.

[qimg]http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Amanda_Knox_-_Bathroom_Fallacy_-_What_Amanda_Saw_WMV_V9_00014.jpg[/qimg]

And,.............why would Rudy lie about the source of the towels?

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Looks to me like a convenient place to put the toilet paper, in the absence of a toilet roll holder fixed to the wall........

It also looks like a place only suitable to store clean, dry towels, and not a place that would be suitable to dry or air used towels. I suspect, therefore, that if a towel was used for a shower, it would be either taken back to the respective girl's room, or possibly hung on a hook on the inside of the door, in between uses.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Amanda and MySpace

loverofzion,

What did Amanda say about herself on MySpace? “I love things like good wine, rock climbing, backpacking long distances with people I love, yoga on a rainy day, making coffee, drinking tea, and lots of languages. Ooh, and soccer, and roller coasters, and harry potter, and…” (Murder in Italy, p. 174)

 

[Amazer]

So not being able to identify the person means it didn't happen? So the person that hit her in the back of the head was standing in front of her when she did it?

It would have helped if she could have identified the person who hit her.
It would have helped if she had a witness who testified that a person hit her.

I'm sure that between the two of us we could come up with a number of things that could have helped settle this issue in favor of Amanda.

The fact that we have to deal with however that none of those things that could have helped settle this issue in favor of Amanda's claim have actually happened.

Quite the opposite actually. There is one independent witness, and that witness maintains nothing of the sort happened.

So while i recognize that it's not impossible that Amanda got slapped on the back of the head, I also recognize that there is absolutely no evidence presented that backs up this claim. Therefore i'm forced to conclude that said event did not occur.

Perhaps if you present new, fresh evidence that I will have to reconsider my position, but I somehow doubt that you will be able to.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

It would have helped if she could have identified the person who hit her.
It would have helped if she had a witness who testified that a person hit her.

I'm sure that between the two of us we could come up with a number of things that could have helped settle this issue in favor of Amanda.

The fact that we have to deal with however that none of those things that could have helped settle this issue in favor of Amanda's claim have actually happened.

Quite the opposite actually. There is one independent witness, and that witness maintains nothing of the sort happened.

So while i recognize that it's not impossible that Amanda got slapped on the back of the head, I also recognize that there is absolutely no evidence presented that backs up this claim. Therefore i'm forced to conclude that said event did not occur.

Perhaps if you present new, fresh evidence that I will have to reconsider my position, but I somehow doubt that you will be able to.

Amazer,

In the previous thread I presented a lengthy quote from pp. 326-328 in the new afterward to "The Monster of Florence." I will summarize it by saying that journalist Francesca Bene identified the policewoman, saying "She's violent. She scares me."

 

[Katody Matrass]

It would have helped if she could have identified the person who hit her.

They asked her to do it almost two years after the event. She may not have Quintavalle's superhuman visual memory.

So while i recognize that it's not impossible that Amanda got slapped on the back of the head, I also recognize that there is absolutely no evidence presented that backs up this claim. Therefore i'm forced to conclude that said event did not occur.

I would fully agree with you, if not for the fact that her allegation is somehow strengthened by the statement they got out of her that night. Statement that is compatible with a coerced internalized false confession. And of course there is that dog that ate the recording..
All of that somehow prevents me from dismissing her words as lies so easily.

 

[Katody Matrass]

confirmatory test for blood

I have a question on a somehow parallel topic of the luminol traces.

From what I read it appears that both TMB and luminol are presumptive tests for blood.
Does anybody know what kind of confirmatory tests for blood were used on the traces detected by luminol?

 

[Kestrel]

It would have helped if she could have identified the person who hit her.

Amanda did in fact identify her attacker in court as a policewomen with long, chestnut brown hair. That she didn't know the policewoman's name has been twisted into the lie you just repeated.

 

[Fulcanelli]

I have a question on a somehow parallel topic of the luminol traces.

From what I read it appears that both TMB and luminol are presumptive tests for blood.
Does anybody know what kind of confirmatory tests for blood were used on the traces detected by luminol?

A DNA test is the confirmatory test. However, there was only enough material for LCN DNA testing. LCN testing can at most, only reveal a profile but cannot tell you from what type of cells it came from.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Amanda did in fact identify her attacker in court as a policewomen with long, chestnut brown hair. That she didn't know the policewoman's name has been twisted into the lie you just repeated.

But couldn't point her out.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Actually the real point thats being missed is this. How did they clean up the mess going to the bathroom, without cleaning up the mess leaving the bathroom?

There wasn't a mess leaving the bathroom.

 

[Katody Matrass]

A DNA test is the confirmatory test. However, there was only enough material for LCN DNA testing. LCN testing can at most, only reveal a profile but cannot tell you from what type of cells it came from.

Does it mean the footprints were made in Amanda's blood? Does DNA test differentiate between blood DNA and other DNA?

 

[Dan O.]

Massei's premise, apparently, is that Raffaele stepped in blood in the murder room, walked into the bathroom, and planted his foot on the mat, leaving the bloody print. Then he cleaned up the trail of footprints leading to the mat, thoroughly enough so they could not be detected even with luminol, but without disturbing Guede's shoe prints or eliminating the luminol footprint in the corridor that was attributed to Amanda.

Then, after carrying out a cleanup of footprints that was both thorough and precise, Raffaele left the bathmat in plain sight.

I don't understand how anyone can believe that.

It's easy to come to that belief if you start with the premiss of guilt and work backwards to fit in the evidence. We've seen a lot of people that argue the case that way and have even come up with a name for them as a group.

 

[Kestrel]

Amazer,

In the previous thread I presented a lengthy quote from pp. 326-328 in the new afterward to "The Monster of Florence." I will summarize it by saying that journalist Francesca Bene identified the policewoman, saying "She's violent. She scares me."

Which in classic Perugia fashion, resulted in Bene being charged with defamation.

 

[Kestrel]

But couldn't point her out.

Backing up a lie with a new lie doesn't really help your cause.

 

[Fulcanelli]

But let's get this puppy back on topic. I have some questions for you and Lionking:

Or alternatively, LionKing could save much of their precious time and simply turn back a couple of pages to where I already answered this list of questions.

But the fact they've been adequately factually answered and you are still asking them proves my point about the pointlessness of engaging in debate with you. A hundred other people could answer your list and you'd still be posting it, like it was fresh.

Oh and just a tip, drop the leading and preaching ones.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Does it mean the footprints were made in Amanda's blood? Does DNA test differentiate between blood DNA and other DNA?

A PCR DNA test does, an LCN DNA test does not.

 

[Fulcanelli]

Massei's premise, apparently, is that Raffaele stepped in blood in the murder room, walked into the bathroom, and planted his foot on the mat, leaving the bloody print. Then he cleaned up the trail of footprints leading to the mat, thoroughly enough so they could not be detected even with luminol, but without disturbing Guede's shoe prints or eliminating the luminol footprint in the corridor that was attributed to Amanda.

I had Massei assigning the clean-up to Amanda, not Raffaele.

But in any case, how would cleaning those have disturbed Rudy's prints when Rudy's were between Meredith's room and the front door and Raffaele's would have been between Meredith's room and the little bathroom...totally the opposite direction? I don't see your argument.

 

[Fulcanelli]

It's easy to come to that belief if you start with the premiss of guilt and work backwards to fit in the evidence. We've seen a lot of people that argue the case that way and have even come up with a name for them as a group.

Does that method also apply to Rudy Guede?