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WND: Take back America Conference

coalesce said:
A non-white was elected President. It wouldn't matter if his urine cured cancer, the bottom line is he's not white. His politics provide excellent cover for the attacks on him, and I have no doubt that the people who want to "take back America" would oppose any President whose views they didn't agree with, but make no mistake: his first shortcoming in their eyes is that he's "one of them."

Dance on MTV or dribble for the Lakers: OK.

Be my President: well, now hold on a minnit...

Michael
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Sadly, yes. Disagreeing with Obama's policies is one thing; the kind of crap we are getting from the Tea Party is another.
 
Spindrift said:
What part about NAFTA superhighway not having anything to do with the real NAFTA do you not understand?
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Are you nuts? If you are just being argumentative, sorry I don't play.

NAFTA superhighway is a generic term for the highways, existing and future, on which Mexican truck traffic moves.

From wikipedia...

The phrase NAFTA superhighway is the nickname used for numerous existing and proposed highways. When describing existing highways, it often describes Interstate 35, along with I-29, and I-94. Those highways are part of the NASCO Corridor. Existing highways or corridors referred to as NAFTA superhighways....
 
mhaze said:
Are you nuts? If you are just being argumentative, sorry I don't play.

NAFTA superhighway is a generic term for the highways, existing and future, on which Mexican truck traffic moves.

From wikipedia...

The phrase NAFTA superhighway is the nickname used for numerous existing and proposed highways. When describing existing highways, it often describes Interstate 35, along with I-29, and I-94. Those highways are part of the NASCO Corridor. Existing highways or corridors referred to as NAFTA superhighways....
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You need to check references on wikipedia. The sole reference for that article is from this site: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/051006_peak_traffic.shtml
 
omg! You know what happened? CN rail links here in the Great White North were reoriented over past decades to a north-south orientation over the previous east-west orientation to suit the greater number of goods going south and coming north in the days of free trade.

FREAKY STUFF!! Transport links tend to develop in the directions of the greatest number of goods travelling over those transport links.

OMG PANIC!!
 
mhaze said:
Quoting again the post I was critical of:

Corsair 115 said:
Ooooh, I wonder if that one includes commentary on the NAFTA superhighway/North American Union stuff. Always loved laughing at those...
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Not to speak for Corsair, but I think it's clear that he loves to laugh at the conspiracy theories about a North American Union and the NAFTA Superhighway. There's plenty to laugh at: http://www.newsweek.com/2007/12/01/highway-to-hell.html and http://www.spp.gov/myths_vs_facts.asp


mhaze said:
What part of Corsair's comment on NAFTA and the my resulting comment on it do you not understand?
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I don't see how his laughing at conspiracy theories suggests he doesn't take drug crimes seriously. You made a non sequitur.
 
mhaze said:
No, I don't. I live in the area, speak both of the languages, and understand quite well the use of the terms, both in print and in popular usage.

Everyday those trucks go by here on the "NAFTA superhighway".

The wikipedia reference is for your education.
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Oh, I see. NAFTA is another one of your misused buzzwords like progressive that somehow connotes evil in your mind.
 
GreyArea said:
Not to speak for Corsair, but I think it's clear that he loves to laugh at the conspiracy theories about a North American Union and the NAFTA Superhighway. There's plenty to laugh at: http://www.newsweek.com/2007/12/01/highway-to-hell.html and http://www.spp.gov/myths_vs_facts.asp

I don't see how his laughing at conspiracy theories suggests he doesn't take drug crimes seriously. You made a non sequitur.
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I don't see that the origional statement was qualified as pertaining to just or largely conspiracy theories instead of the whole enchilada. But of course blurring the issues together and ridiculing the whole group of concepts is a common tactic.

Actually there have been numerous conferences and studies on North American Union, including books published on the currency issues and the issue of a common currency, and various debates ongoing about the highway expansions.
 
mhaze said:
No, I don't. I live in the area, speak both of the languages, and understand quite well the use of the terms, both in print and in popular usage.

Everyday those trucks go by here on the "NAFTA superhighway".
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But the NAFTA Superhighway has nothing to do with print and popular usage in your area. We are not talking about how the media uses the word or how the average American uses the word or how Washington uses the word. We are talking about how the wingnuts at World Net Daily (who are sponsoring this convention) use the word and to them, the NAFTA Superhighway is a 10+ lane highway connecting southern Mexico with southern Canada. To them it is just one more crucial step to creating a North American Union where U.S. citizens must surrender their rights. To them it is part of the Chinese agenda to weaken the U.S. (by allowing Chinese goods to be unloaded in southern Mexico (bypassing the longshoreman unions) and trucked into the U.S. (bypassing trucking unions)). To them, it hasn't been built yet.

A quick googling of the term shows that this usage is far more popular on the internet than the usage you cite. Also, an image search on Google also supports the definition I have cited.
 
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SO... WHAT!?!

really - so what!?

There's an increase of north-south trade - and transport is evolving to support that.

Wouldn't we be having a big issue if the transport links weren't there to support the trade needs of Canada, US and Mexico? Shouldn't we be more concerned if there WASN'T some kind of north/south reorientation? Longer border crossings, more $$ spent on routes that take you out of the way from where you need to go - all that passed on to the customer.

Im trying hard here to imagine a downside to increased north-south transport and to be honest I can't find it.
 
Ladewig said:
But the NAFTA Superhighway has nothing to do with print and popular usage in your area......
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Nonsense, it has everything to do with reality.

Reality is the much higher death count on the freeways from Mexico with large number of truck drivers from Mexico with let's just say....different...driving habits.

Reality is the proposals for that future version of the road and whose ranches it cuts through.

And reality is as I mentioned, the border drug war which is largely a side effect of NAFTA.

Looking at these issues, I do wonder whether the wingnuts are not those in this thread discussing something they know little about, and reading into the title of some talk at a right wing conference, conspiracy theories.

Frankly anyone down here (and they are 83% Democratic) would laugh you guys out of the room.
 
mhaze said:
Nonsense, it has everything to do with reality.
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Yes, there are ramifications to NAFTA that can be felt in very measurable ways. But the folks at WND are not talking about those effect and WND's definition what this thread is about. If you want to talk about actual problems with NAFTA, feel free to start a new thread. This thread is about the WND conference and these are the folks that believe that the UN is trying to take over the United States and the North American Union is one step towards that goal.


mhaze said:
Frankly anyone down here (and they are 83% Democratic) would laugh you guys out of the room.
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You and the folks near you are using the term to mean something completely different from what the folks on JREF and the folks on WND mean by the term. Laugh all you want.
 
Ladewig said:
Yes, there are ramifications to NAFTA that can be felt in very measurable ways. But the folks at WND are not talking about those effect and WND's definition what this thread is about. If you want to talk about actual problems with NAFTA, feel free to start a new thread. This thread is about the WND conference and these are the folks that believe that the UN is trying to take over the United States and the North American Union is one step towards that goal.

You and the folks near you are using the term to mean something completely different from what the folks on JREF and the folks on WND mean by the term. Laugh all you want.
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Look, I'll change my view (which I've supported halfway decently) when someone produces a transcript or other material from the supposed wingnut talk on these issues that shows pure wingnuttiness from this talk at the seminar.

instead of .... fabricated moonbattery here basically consisting of making things up about it out of whole clothe.

And that's while not even seemingly understanding the actual backgrounds of the issues and their seriousness (although they may understand the conspiracy theories therein).

It seems reasonable to assume that what you are promulgating here is essentially a smear job on WND based on, at least in this narrow case, fabricated evidence.

After all, would you like me to quote some of the titles of JREF threads to a conservative community? Would you then belief that their constructions of content from those thread titles accurately reflected the thread content?
 
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mhaze said:
Look, I'll change my view (which I've supported halfway decently) when someone produces a transcript or other material from the supposed wingnut talk on these issues that shows pure wingnuttiness from this talk at the seminar.

instead of .... fabricated moonbattery here basically consisting of making things up about it out of whole clothe.

And that's while not even seemingly understanding the actual backgrounds of the issues and their seriousness (although they may understand the conspiracy theories therein).

It seems reasonable to assume that what you are promulgating here is essentially a smear job on WND based on, at least in this narrow case, fabricated evidence.

After all, would you like me to quote some of the titles of JREF threads to a conservative community? Would you then belief that their constructions of content from those thread titles accurately reflected the thread content?
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I withdraw all previous posts concerning how this conference views NAFTA because NAFTA is not listed as a conference topic. I will not withdraw the claims that the conference has wingnuttery in it because the speakers include:

--Jerome Corsi who recently wrote this on the WND.com website

NEW YORK – Troops in the United States' USNORTHCOM ranks appear to have adopted a shoulder patch showing a North American continental design, with an emphasis on United Nations colors, giving evidence of the strength of a plan to integrate North America.

The patch reveals the continent of North America in the orange and blue colors typical to the U.N.

[snip]

The design of the patch with the U.S. eagle image superimposed seems to imply a hierarchy in which the U.S. 5th Army exerts its military command under the authority of USNORTHCOM, with its domain defined as all North America, including the U.S., Mexico and Canada, for the United Nations, as implied in the orange and blue motif.
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A military unit slightly changes the design of their logo and he assumes that they now answer to the United Nations.

--Aaron Klien. A birther who believes that Obama is ineligible to be president.

--Floyd Brown. Author of "The Case for Impeaching Barack Obama" who believes he should be impeached for, among other things, "unlawfully engaging in a conspiracy to suppress evidence of the true place of his birth."

--Tom Tancredo. A congressman who once said that if Muslim extremists were to launch a multi-city nuclear attack on the U.S., we should bomb Mecca.
 
mhaze said:
Cool...so your sense of humor involves laughing at the 6,000+ drug war deaths on the US/Mexico border last year? And a similar amount the year before? The 19 dead last weekend in Juarez? The 300+ young women tortured, butchered and killed in Juarez?
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Others have already addressed the matter quite well in my absence (my thanks to those folks).

Not sure why your knickers are in a knot. I specifically referenced the so-called "NAFTA superhighway," the conspiracy theory (believed in some circles) of a giant multi-lane highway that is supposedly going to be built, bisecting the nation. Lou Dobbs, for one, went on about it on numerous occasions back when he was on CNN. The "North American Union" conspiracy theory (believed in some circles) that purports to rob American of its sovereignty and independence. Dobbs, for one, went on about this from time to time as well. Both were in vogue a couple of years ago.

And both are silly conspiracy theories that some poor misguided Americans actually believed were true. If these two conspiracy theories have passed out of American awareness, then my apologies on making a joke using an outdated reference.


mhaze said:
And reality is as I mentioned, the border drug war which is largely a side effect of NAFTA.
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Hmmm, I would have thought it had at least as much to do with America's seemingly insatiable desire for illicit drugs.


mhaze said:
Reality is the much higher death count on the freeways from Mexico with large number of truck drivers from Mexico with let's just say....different...driving habits.
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Citation?

I haven't kept up with the issue, but last I recall from several years ago was that the U.S. government had decided not to allow Mexican commerical trucking past the already established zone close to the U.S. border. Mexican trucks could go no further than a short distance into the United States; all goods had to be offloaded onto American trucks in order to go the rest of the way. This is in contrast to Canadian trucks, which are free to deliver to any point inside the U.S., with American trucks having the reciprocal right to deliver to points within Canada (cabotage, however, is not permitted).

This was a sore point for Mexico, as under the terms of NAFTA its trucks were to have been granted the same rights as Canadian trucks to deliver to any point within the U.S., with American trucks getting the same right in Mexico. But the U.S. dragged its feet in initiating this aspect of NAFTA, so much so that Mexico launched a formal challenge under the agreement's trade dispute resolution panel. It won its case, but the U.S. still dragged its feet in implementing the measures it had agreed to when it had signed NAFTA.

I'm sure some will remember this was a big issue a few years ago (it made its way onto Dobbs' program more than once, for example).

Now, maybe the U.S. government did finally relent and has allowed Mexican trucks to deliver to all points within the U.S., fulfilling its NAFTA obligations. If so, I missed that announcement, and I don't ever recall seeing a news item about it. (Given the controversy the trucking matter caused at the time, it would seem odd that approval finally came seemingly without much furor.)
 
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mhaze said:
The 19 dead last weekend in Juarez? The 300+ young women tortured, butchered and killed in Juarez?
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Nobody is laughing about that. We do laugh at some of what Tancredo believes when he is not taking his meds, which seems to be most of the time. (It is a matter of public record that he is not mentally well.)

His theories about what else the NWO is planning as a next phase of NAFTA get a little bit strange, to put it mildly.
 
mhaze said:
Actually there have been numerous conferences and studies on North American Union, including books published on the currency issues and the issue of a common currency, and various debates ongoing about the highway expansions.
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Know what else there are various debates, books, and such about? The coming 2012 end of the world. Just because people talk about something doesn't mean it's going to happen, or has happened, or is even possible.
 
elbe said:
Know what else there are various debates, books, and such about? The coming 2012 end of the world. Just because people talk about something doesn't mean it's going to happen, or has happened, or is even possible.
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You answer your own question, but just in case you don't see it I'll lay it out for you.

Because there is and has been a lot of legitimate discussion about an issue does not mean that discussion of that issue is automatically the 0.5% wacko fringe conspiracy element, and automatically assuming that shows only the use of ridicule and smear tactics to stereotype a group while simultaneous showing one's own boneheadedness and ignorance.

The former is substandard, which is expected from the latter.
 
mhaze said:
You answer your own question, but just in case you don't see it I'll lay it out for you.

Because there is and has been a lot of legitimate discussion about an issue does not mean that discussion of that issue is automatically the 0.5% wacko fringe conspiracy element, and automatically assuming that shows only the use of ridicule and smear tactics to stereotype a group while simultaneous showing one's own boneheadedness and ignorance.

The former is substandard, which is expected from the latter.
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And you read too much into what I said. You should probably study up on your reading comprehension before you start insulting people.

I only used 2012 because it was the first thing that popped into my head. There are lots of topics people in various fields seriously discuss without them thinking it's actually going to happen. Heck, a unified NA currency (an "Amero", if you will) would probably create some interesting economic challenges that some economists might get a kick out of working on - doesn't mean they think it'll happen, or even want it to happen (unless, I guess, they conclude it would be economically better, but who knows).

How about this as an example, I bet our military has plans for attacking countries we should never have a reason to, like canada.

But no matter what, NAU is firmly in the world of conspiracy theories by people who don't actually understand how nations work. Reminds me of the LeHaye "Left Behind" books where the UN features heavily but the authors don't have any clue on how it works.
 
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