Schrodinger's Rapist: When is uncritical thought ok?

[Furcifer]

Haha.

The AVERAGE rapist commits 10 offenses. Some commit 1, some commit 19, but the AVERAGE is 10/rapist.

It's not a statement about how "rapist" is defined.

Evidence? You constantly lie, professional hazard I suppose.

 

[TraneWreck]

Evidence? You constantly lie, professional hazard I suppose.

Two separate questions:

1) Is it the case that the average rapist commits 10 offenses?
2) What did the woman claim in her article?

You've accused the woman of saying that 1 in 6 men are rapists. This is false, she says 1 in 60 because, ACCORDING TO HER, the average rapist commits 10 offenses.

Now, that stat may be true or false, but you were completely wrong about her claims. If you want to question the statistic, that's one thing, you're welcome to challenge her numbers, but you couldn't even grasp the argument she presented (or you willfully tried to make it as weak and ridiculous as possible).

 

[Furcifer]

This makes me wonder why are women so concerned about assault but men aren't? Statistically men are more likely to be physically assaulted than women are. In my personal experience I've been assaulted five times in my life and I'm not outside the norm for my social circle. But I don't worry about it.

Exactly.

If men were telling you all the time you were going to be murdered you'd probably be a little more scared. The fact is you know it's pretty rare for a fight to end in someone dying.

This is why I said living in constant fear isn't necessarily warranted. When I was 19 we used to get into fights on a more regular basis. These days not such much. I don't have as much to worry about. It's about knowing the facts and avoiding situations.

Apparently even suggesting this to a woman is wrong because :"women are dealing with a set of challenges and concerns that are strange to you, a man. To begin with, we would rather not be killed or otherwise violently assaulted"

Men don't know what it's like to not want to be killed or violently assaulted. That's unique to women.

 

[bookitty]

This makes me wonder why are women so concerned about assault but men aren't? Statistically men are more likely to be physically assaulted than women are. In my personal experience I've been assaulted five times in my life and I'm not outside the norm for my social circle. But I don't worry about it.

I've often wondered that myself. Guys seem to be more comfortable in potentially dangerous situations. I have female friends in roller derby leagues, it's a very physical sport. These woman are strong, tough and cocky. Yet, they are uncomfortable taking the subway alone at night. Even my less physically imposing guy friends think nothing of it.

Maybe it's the constant repetition from childhood? Don't go here, don't do this, etc, etc. Or the ongoing low-grade harassment - all the stupid yelling from cars, lewd language when you walk by, the occasion grope, the guy who asks you for directions just so you'll see that he's got his penis out. Or the fact that every woman knows someone who has been assaulted?

I'm sorry, I really don't have any concrete answers.

 

[vwgub]

Men don't know what it's like to not want to be killed or violently assaulted.

Is this really what you meant to say? Take out the double negative and see how it reads. Also I wasn't making a statement I was asking a question.

 

[vwgub]

I've often wondered that myself. Guys seem to be more comfortable in potentially dangerous situations. I have female friends in roller derby leagues, it's a very physical sport. These woman are strong, tough and cocky. Yet, they are uncomfortable taking the subway alone at night. Even my less physically imposing guy friends think nothing of it.

Maybe it's the constant repetition from childhood? Don't go here, don't do this, etc, etc. Or the ongoing low-grade harassment - all the stupid yelling from cars, lewd language when you walk by, the occasion grope, the guy who asks you for directions just so you'll see that he's got his penis out. Or the fact that every woman knows someone who has been assaulted?

I'm sorry, I really don't have any concrete answers.

But this is all true of men as well. Actually I don't know a single man that I know who hasn't been assaulted at some point in their life. The only difference is it isn't sexual. Which maybe gives lie to the maxim that rape is about sex it's about power.

 

[Furcifer]

Two separate questions:

1) Is it the case that the average rapist commits 10 offenses?
2) What did the woman claim in her article?

You've accused the woman of saying that 1 in 6 men are rapists. This is false, she says 1 in 60 because, ACCORDING TO HER, the average rapist commits 10 offenses.

Now, that stat may be true or false, but you were completely wrong about her claims. If you want to question the statistic, that's one thing, you're welcome to challenge her numbers, but you couldn't even grasp the argument she presented (or you willfully tried to make it as weak and ridiculous as possible).

Evidence?


AFAIK a rapist is a person who commits 1 rape. She says "1 in 6 men are rapists, but let's say they commit 10 rapes each (I pulled that out of my arse, it's that shocking), then it's 1 in 60"

Don't the rapists go to jail in the US? Or are they all walking the streets looking for 34 year old feminists?

Apparently there are 11 that work out in her gym. This is where men and women differ, because if I knew that I'd call the cops. Or CHECK MY MATH.

 

[TraneWreck]

Evidence?


AFAIK a rapist is a person who commits 1 rape. She says "1 in 6 men are rapists, but let's say they commit 10 rapes each (I pulled that out of my arse, it's that shocking), then it's 1 in 60"

Don't the rapists go to jail in the US? Or are they all walking the streets looking for 34 year old feminists?

Apparently there are 11 that work out in her gym. This is where men and women differ, because if I knew that I'd call the cops. Or CHECK MY MATH.

First of all, this is more backpedaling to defend your ridiculous claim that the author said 1 in 6 men are rapists.

Here's the quote:

Do you think I’m overreacting? One in every six American women will be sexually assaulted in her lifetime. I bet you don’t think you know any rapists, but consider the sheer number of rapes that must occur. These rapes are not all committed by Phillip Garrido, Brian David Mitchell, or other members of the Brotherhood of Scary Hair and Homemade Religion. While you may assume that none of the men you know are rapists, I can assure you that at least one is. Consider: if every rapist commits an average of ten rapes (a horrifying number, isn’t it?) then the concentration of rapists in the population is still a little over one in sixty. That means four in my graduating class in high school. One among my coworkers. One in the subway car at rush hour. Eleven who work out at my gym. How do I know that you, the nice guy who wants nothing more than companionship and True Love, are not this rapist?

That's called granting the opposing view a considerable assumption and still having your point stand.

She's saying that even if we assume that each rapist commits a high number of rapes, the numbers are still terrifying. She is correct. At no point does she say someone who commits one rape isn't a rapist. I can't imagine how you conjured that up.

The number is likely lower. 10 rapes is a huge number. That would mean significantly more than 1 in 60 have committed a sexual assault.

Please explain how this helps your case that women have nothing to worry about?

 

[Furcifer]

Is this really what you meant to say? Take out the double negative and see how it reads. Also I wasn't making a statement I was asking a question.

No it's correct, as ridiculous as it sounds. Apparently men don't know what it's like to not want to be killed or violently assaulted.

I'm of the opinion this isn't unique to women. Men don't want to be killed either. Maybe the author thinks because men traditionally go to war and frequently put the lives of others ahead of themselves they are used to the threat of dying.

Beats me but it sounds like a ridiculous premise for saying men are that much different then women.

 

[TraneWreck]

Exactly.

If men were telling you all the time you were going to be murdered you'd probably be a little more scared. The fact is you know it's pretty rare for a fight to end in someone dying.

This is why I said living in constant fear isn't necessarily warranted. When I was 19 we used to get into fights on a more regular basis. These days not such much. I don't have as much to worry about. It's about knowing the facts and avoiding situations.

Apparently even suggesting this to a woman is wrong because :"women are dealing with a set of challenges and concerns that are strange to you, a man. To begin with, we would rather not be killed or otherwise violently assaulted"

Men don't know what it's like to not want to be killed or violently assaulted. That's unique to women.

This is more egotistic nonsense.

Break down assaults against males economically and demographically. What do you find?

Income, location, and race will be the largest determinants of whether a male will be physically assaulted. And I can tell you from working in a legal clinic on the Southside of Chicago that men in that area are terrified.

The primary motivation for people joining gangs in those areas is fear and the need for protection.

I would be interested to see you take a trip to Cabrini Green and telling the inhabitants that their fear is irrational.

This is also relevant to the OP because the woman isn't talking about being terrified every moment of her life, she's describing situations that scare her. Any man who says they aren't ever scared or concerned in given situations is lying their ass off.

 

[Furcifer]

Please explain how this helps your case that women have nothing to worry about?

More lies from the lawyer. I never said that, ever.

You really can't ever make a case without lying can you? I have never seen you, not once restrain yourself from making things up.

So, stop lying and provide your evidence. Thanks!

 

[bookitty]

But this is all true of men as well. Actually I don't know a single man that I know who hasn't been assaulted at some point in their life. The only difference is it isn't sexual. Which maybe gives lie to the maxim that rape is about sex it's about power.

The maxim that rape is about power is a bit too simple. It will vary from case to case. There will always be an inherent power-play in any non-consensual act but it will not always be the predominant factor.

Sexual harassment is similar. A man yelling obscenities to a women on the street is not expecting a positive response from her. He is showing that he can casually abuse her at will. It is about power. There is no other reason to do it. A man who rubs up against a woman on the subway might only think of her as an object. There might not be an obvious connection to the power he has over her in that moment and the enjoyment he gets from abusing her.

 

[bookitty]

More lies from the lawyer. I never said that, ever.

That's true, you only said that women are safe once they hit the magical age of 35.

 

[Furcifer]

This is also relevant to the OP because the woman isn't talking about being terrified every moment of her life, she's describing situations that scare her. Any man who says they aren't ever scared or concerned in given situations is lying their ass off.

Wow, you've finally caught up to the rest of us. Nice.

She prefaces the article by saying that for women their daily routine is defined by not wanting to get violently assaulted or murdered, not just when they enter a war zone.

So you are wrong, she is talking about being terrified every moment of her life. That's why her saying everyone is a potential rapist might be a little over the top.

Of course you want to take the discussion somewhere else and make all kinds of silly claims because you just like to argue. Have fun with your strawmen, and remember "No means no!"

 

[TraneWreck]

Wow, you've finally caught up to the rest of us. Nice.

She prefaces the article by saying that for women their daily routine is defined by not wanting to get violently assaulted or murdered, not just when they enter a war zone.

So you are wrong, she is talking about being terrified every moment of her life. That's why her saying everyone is a potential rapist might be a little over the top.

Of course you want to take the discussion somewhere else and make all kinds of silly claims because you just like to argue. Have fun with your strawmen, and remember "No means no!"

Amazing. You just can't get past this bizarre anger that leads you to so totally twist the words of the article.

You've made comical error after comical error, then you decided to be as insulting as possible, and now you're just calling people liars.

It's infantile.

Oh no, what will you call me next?

 

[Furcifer]

That's true, you only said that women are safe once they hit the magical age of 35.

Yah on the bus during rush hour.

You just don't understand the stats and instead want to foster an irrational fear of men in all women. It's obvious you have an agenda and some emotional involvement. You may want to admit this and remove yourself from the discussion because you're trying to take it in another direction instead of just considering the facts.

 

[TraneWreck]

More lies from the lawyer. I never said that, ever.

You really can't ever make a case without lying can you? I have never seen you, not once restrain yourself from making things up.

So, stop lying and provide your evidence. Thanks!

Evidence for what? You are conflating a defense of the statistic presented with an explanation of what the author claimed. You were wrong about what she claimed, amusingly so, and realizing your absolute failure on that level you're now challenging me to defend a point I never made.

The series of posts where you attempted to mock and humiliate another member of the forum were all removed. Everyone who read those can easily attest to your attempts to make fun of women for fearing sexual assault. your entire attitude on this thread has been condescending, arrogant, and wholly devoid of reasonable argument. You can try and cloak these shortcomings with scatter-shot vitriol, but you're only further humiliating yourself, whether you realize it or not.

And if you want to make lawyer jokes, at least spend some time on google so you can share some funny ones. Stammering pissy-ness has no value.

 

[vwgub]

The maxim that rape is about power is a bit too simple. It will vary from case to case. There will always be an inherent power-play in any non-consensual act but it will not always be the predominant factor.

Sexual harassment is similar. A man yelling obscenities to a women on the street is not expecting a positive response from her. He is showing that he can casually abuse her at will. It is about power. There is no other reason to do it. A man who rubs up against a woman on the subway might only think of her as an object. There might not be an obvious connection to the power he has over her in that moment and the enjoyment he gets from abusing her.

I was thinking about this while I was walking to the store for lunch. I think rape is generally about power through sex. Which is why it is more emotionally horrifying than simple physical assault.

I do have a problem understanding the problem a women might have with a man yelling obscenities at her. Not so much why should have a problem but why she would have a fear about it. This happens at my work all the time with men yelling at men. It's just what is, it sucks, but Oh well you either dwell on it or you move on.

ETA: Isn't this actually primate dominance display? While I've never seen the rubbing thing with men on men there are similar behaviors I have noticed.

 

[Furcifer]

Oh no, what will you call me next?

Obviously "troll".

And I'll call you a troll until you provide the evidence or admit you were lying.

You never provide evidence and it's time you realized you are simply the one trolling the thread. That's what they do, they lie about what people said and make things up.

Try to provide evidence before you hit "Submit Reply"next time, you can do it!

 

[TraneWreck]

Please explain how this helps your case that women have nothing to worry about?

:
More lies from the lawyer. I never said that, ever.

You just don't understand the stats and instead want to foster an irrational fear of men in all women.

Hilarious.