Coast to Coast AM Debate, August 21 2010

[Disbelief]

A trial denial? Give it up.

I posted a video that has the sound of an explosion just before the east penthouse falls. I have posted videos of numerous survivors describing explosions. There is evidence of explosions, your denial notwithstanding.

mañana

I thought it was nanothermite Chris! So it it explosives or nanothermite?

 

[Christopher7]

The hotter a fire burns, the faster it uses up it's fuel supply. An office fire can only burn at max temperatures for about 20 minutes.

Holy ****... where did you get this piece of utter nonsense?

From the utter nonsense NIST report, where else?
NCSTAR 1A pg 47 [pdf pg 89]
Fires for the range of combustible contents in WTC 7 . . . . . on Floors 11 to 13 – persisted in any given location for approximately 20 min to 30 min.

You do realize that me and a few others here are actually real live firemen and have real live training in fire science...right?

I'm so impressed

 

[BigAl]

From the utter nonsense NIST report, where else?
NCSTAR 1A pg 47 [pdf pg 89]
Fires for the range of combustible contents in WTC 7 . . . . . on Floors 11 to 13 – persisted in any given location for approximately 20 min to 30 min.

And concluded that, given the lack of water for firefighting it was sufficient to cause WTC7 to collapse in a way consistent with the eyewitness reports, evidence and the physics of fire science

 

[Sabretooth]

I posted a video that has the sound of an explosion just before the east penthouse falls.

No, you haven't. You posted a doctored video that has already been debunked.

I have posted videos of numerous survivors describing explosions.

See below.

There is evidence of explosions, your denial notwithstanding.

No, there isn't. We already talked about the definition of the word "simile"...you can't advance your story just because you choose to ignore those facts.

 

[bill smith]

The big problem with this Bill (actually theres quite a few problems with it), is that the truthers CD scenario requires simultainious removal of core colulmns, according to them - to create the FFA.

Something like slow burning thermite isn't going to do this. It would be a very varied result in terms of column removal.

Also, the structure would collapse well before the columns were melted due to thermite, since as we know their structural integrity would fail progressively as the thermite burned. Hardly a sudden removal of the core columns. More an inexact slow degredation of their structual performance, relatively speaking compared with a building primed for CD.... and they wouldnt all get to that point at the same time.

er, kind of like what would happen if uncontrolled fires had been burning for a long time! wow

NANOthermite is not at all the same thing as regular old-fashioned thermite. The particles of aluminium,iron exide and a variety of other possible additives are milled down to nano proportions. Very hi-tech stuff let me tell you. The mere presence of such large quantities of these micro-particles is enough to confirm the inside job all on their own.

So in nanothermite the surface area is vastly increased making the reaction work vastly more quickly than in in it's old-fashioned namesake. Forget the slow-burning.

I think aound 35% of the core columns were completely melted up to around the 88th floor in a fast sequence from bottom to top allowing the molten steel to drop down through the holes of where the column underneath had been all the way down into the basement. Maybe thousands of tons of liquid steel ended up bubbling down there.

The building has been shown to move slightly about 8 seconds before general collapse which would fit nicely. I like to think of it as the building 'settling' on it's new reduced core.(But still well within the tolerance of redundency which had a factor of safety of three-to-one)

 

[excaza]

35% of the core columns were completely melted, yet no slag or melted steel was found. Interesting. Is that another aspect of how nano-thermite works in your imaginary reality?

Plus it happened perfectly symmetrically so the building just "settled?"

Wow. I would love to live in your world.

 

[uke2se]

NANOthermite is not at all the same thing as regular old-fashioned thermite. The particles of aluminium,iron exide and possible other additives are milled down to nano proportions. Very hi-tech stuff let me tell you.

So?

The mere presence of such large quantities of these micro-particles is enough to confirm the inside job all their own.

Nope.

So in nanothermite the surface area is vastly increased making the reaction work vastly more quickly than in in it's old-fashioned namesake. Forget the slow-burning.

Which means it burns off more quickly, failing to push through steel girders. Thanks for torpedoing your case, Bill.

I think aound 35% of the core columns were completely melted in a fast sequence from bottom to top allowing the molten steel to drop down through the holes of where the column underneath had been all the way down into the basement.

I see your problem.

Maybe thousands of tons of liquid steel ended up bubbling down there.

Evidence?

The building has been shown to move slightly about 8 seconds before general collapse which would fit nicely.

Fit with what?

I like to think of it as the building 'settling' on it's new reduced core.(But still well within the tolerance of redundency which had a factor of safety of three-to-one)

Evidence?

 

[DaveThomasNMSR]

I have already answered that. But I'll elaborate:
The dust was deposited by the dust clouds produced by the collapses of the Trade Towers. The WTC dust is unique and can be determined by it's "signature". The nearly 6% iron spheres is part of that unique signature.

The only known source for the abundance of microscopic iron spheres is nano-thermite.

[FONT=&quot]R J Lee - spheres - high temp[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.nyenvirolaw.org/WTC/130%20Liberty%20Street/Mike%20Davis%20LMDC%20130%20Liberty%20Documents/Signature%20of%20WTC%20dust/WTC%20Dust%20Signature.Composition%20and%20Morphology.Final.pdf[/FONT]

Oh, really? Not so fast.

This is pointed out in letters between Frank Greening, PhD Chemist, and thermite advocate Steven Jones, posted on this page by a Truther who is very frustrated with Jones: Dr. Greening says of the microspheres that "...my main objection is that there appears to be a whole variety of microspheres with different chemical signatures. This suggests that most of the microspheres have a natural, chaotic, origin from many different source materials, all of which have simple explanations for their presence in the WTC remains."

 

[excaza]

Yes, nanothermite is the simplest explanation.


Duh.

 

[Sabretooth]

From the utter nonsense NIST report, where else?
NCSTAR 1A pg 47 [pdf pg 89]
Fires for the range of combustible contents in WTC 7 . . . . . on Floors 11 to 13 – persisted in any given location for approximately 20 min to 30 min.

First off, you mean pg 43 (pdf pg 81)

Second, this doesn’t support your comment. You said:

An office fire can only burn at max temperatures for about 20 minutes.

Your quote-mine from NCSTAR doesn’t say anything about “max temperature”. It says the combustible contents were consumed within 20 to 30 minutes. But what you’re failing to understand is that the fires are still moving and rolling…and the HEAT doesn’t dissipate just because it used up the combustible material. NIST covers the heat indexes in those floors very well.

Further…the rest of what you left out of your reference:

…Had a water supply for the automatic sprinkler system been available and had the sprinkler system operated as designed, it is likely that fires in WTC7 would have been controlled and the collapse prevented.

No Water = Uncontrollable Fire and Heat. This is not rocket science, Chris…this fact should hit home with you. You don’t seem to think a runaway fire is that big of a deal. But, if it weren’t a big deal, then fire-proofing and fire-prevention and fire-fighting wouldn’t be necessary.

I'm so impressed

I didn’t say that to impress you…actually, I couldn’t care less. I said that because you seem to think you’re talking to a bunch of 5 year olds who should take you at your words without question. Face the facts, Chris…there are people here who don’t believe you and are far more intelligent and experienced than you.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Why wasn't the steel from the collapse initiation zones saved for analysis in the investigation? Many fire professionals were appalled that it wasn't.

Explained to you already. Yet again, if the markings are not identifiable you cannot get a precise fix on the location it was originally placed during construction. What could be identified definitively was saved. Considering the criteria for saving the samples was a bit precise going with an imprecise method of sampling would have been contradictory, rendering it all moot. The column thicknesses alone won't give you enough information about a structural member's location relative to the collapse initiation area.

 

[bill smith]

Oh, really? Not so fast.

You jnow about fake Truthers Dave don't you ? I mean you post on the jref so you must know what I mean ?

I suspect that Greening is one of those.

For a guy who had analysed the dust output of 9/11 and found it to be above 120,000 tons to come back and say that perhaps the 5-odd percent of metal micro-spheres that it was composed of could have been from non suspect causes should tell you enough..

 

[excaza]

That's good, because it wasn't 5-odd percent. You're off by a factor of 100.

 

[beachnut]

Which properties? The fact that it is in the WTC dust there and there is only one reason for it to be there - to melt steel. The iron spheres that were found by the USGS and the RJ Lee Group are consistent with spheres created by nano-thermite as can be seen in these photos:


There is no other known explanation for the iron spheres that make up nearly 6% of the WTC dust. The RJ Lee Group states that they were created during the event.

You have a delusion. The spheres are in my back yard; no thermite was used. Darn - why do you make up lies by repeating failed junk from 911 truth?

Please show me a photo of nano-thermite. You have no idea what it looks like. Gage is a fraud, or nuts; take your pick.

NANOthermite is not at all the same thing as regular old-fashioned thermite. The particles of aluminium,iron exide and possible other additives are milled down to nano proportions. Very hi-tech stuff let me tell you. The mere presence of such large quantities of these micro-particles is enough to confirm the inside job all their own.

...

Sounds like dust. 911 truth takes dust and makes up lies. You fail to support them, you make 911 truth claims nuttier. good job spewing nonsense you looked up trying to ride the coattails of idiots falling faster than free-fall into the pit of ignorance known as 911 truth.

Please post a photo of some nano-thermite; the real stuff. Hurry up.

 

[bill smith]

You have a delusion. The spheres are in my back yard; no thermite was used. Darn - why do you make up lies by repeating failed junk from 911 truth?

Please show me a photo of nano-thermite. You have no idea what it looks like. Gage is a fraud, or nuts; take your pick.

Sounds like dust. 911 truth takes dust and makes up lies. You fail to support them, you make 911 truth claims nuttier. good job spewing nonsense you looked up trying to ride the coattails of idiots falling faster than free-fall into the pit of ignorance known as 911 truth.

Please post a photo of some nano-thermite; the real stuff. Hurry up.

Even if the dust only contained 0.5% iron micro-spheres it would still be far too much for an innocent explanation Beachnut. When I look at the dust in this newly-released video I sometimes think that I would love to see a strong magnet being dragged through it on video. I'd say it would be a very furry magnet in no time. lol

http://www.youtube.com/user/IC911STUDIES#p/u/7/ZduP7HTM3cg

 

[excaza]

0.04%

 

[bill smith]

0.04%

About 60 tons in total then you reckon ?

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

You believe the nuttiest conspiracy of them all and say:
"It goes without saying, that any of us who argue against Conspiracy Theories are part of the Conspiracy. The Conspiracy Theories are fairy story realities, they are a narrative which improves apon reality itself."
apon > upon

The conspiracy theory about 19 nut-jobs getting by the most sophisticated military in the world and flying a plane into their headquarters is a fairytale that you embrace.

You don't even know what the word "conspiracy" means. The FBI has charged OBL with conspiracy. Do you think the FBI is a bunch of nut-jobs?

David Aaronovich actually said that, not me, I'm just quoting him. And it's true that you believe in a fairy story reality about 9/11.

Do you have evidence that contridicts the 9/11 Commission & NISTs findings? Are you going to retaliate with more words than evidence again?

Julius Ceasar & Abraham Lincoln were killed by a conspiracy. A group of people decided that they should kidnap or take the life of both men, but it only took 1 person to actually do the murders. So you know nothing about a real conspiracy because you failed in history class.

 

[sheeplesnshills]

No.
I know about the nano-thermite because of the paper written by a team of highly qualified professionals and I can see the microscopic iron spheres in the photos above.

Some people hand wave this information but they are the same people who hand wave all evidence that refutes the OCT. Their consistency is proof that they are in denial.

Where is this paper???? We all know Jones et al wrote a piece of incompetent garbage on the subject that got published in a vanity press journal but who knew that there was a competent work on the subject publish in a real peer reviewed journal! Why have truthers been hiding this from us????

 

[Sabretooth]

Everyone was moved back over 2,000 feet or had six blocks of buildings between them and WTC 7.
http://a.imageshack.us/img827/5109/streetnames.jpg

The explosions were on the lower floors that could not be seen. Note in this video that there is smoke covering the lower floors before the collapse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=926V_0C3pdQ

This is consistent with the statement by Daryl that the lower floors were on fire. He described a CD. A clap of thunder, a shock wave ripping thru the building and all the windows busted out.

Perhaps you missed this part of the NIST report on the matter? Taken word for word and no convenient quote-mining:

Hypothetical blast events did not play a role in the collapse of WTC7. Based on visual and audio evidence and the use of specialized computer modeling, NIST concluded that blast events did not occur, and found no evidence whose explanation required invocation of a blast event. Blast from the smallest charge capable of failing a critical column (i.e., Column 79) would have resulted in a sound level of 130dB to 140dB at a distance of at least half a mile if unobstructed by surrounding buildings (such as along Greenwich Street or West Broadway). This sound level is consistent with standing next to a jet plane engine and more than 10 times louder than bring in front of the speakers at a rock concert. There were no witness reports of such a loud noise, nor was such a noise heard on the audio tracks of video recordings of the WTC7 collapse.

Pay special attention to the highlighted portions, Chris. There were NO explosions consistent with those of a CD.