Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Kevin_Lowe]

Thank you for the welcome. However, I should note that I do not post at the PMF forums, and I'm not sure why you would assume that to be the case.

You are of course free to answer my questions or not as you see fit. However if you prefer not to do so, possibly you could get in touch with the poster with the identical username and avatar to yours who posts on the PMF forums. Possibly that Fuji would be interested in participating in this discussion?

Also, a couple of extra questions for you.

Do you still claim that we are arguing that most burglars leave stools at the crime scene, or have you accepted that we are arguing that it is merely common enough not to constitute evidence against the theory that Rudy burgled the house?

Do you still claim that there is no proper evidence that Rudy has a history of breaking and entering through second-storey windows which he breaks with rocks, burgling houses through these means, carrying knives while doing so, and threatening people with knives in order to effect an escape when caught?

 

[Mary_H]

Do you still claim that we are arguing that most burglars leave stools at the crime scene, or have you accepted that we are arguing that it is merely common enough not to constitute evidence against the theory that Rudy burgled the house?

Many burglars prefer ladders, but I guess stools would work in a pinch.

 

[loverofzion]

Thanks Amazer, finally someone managed to cite a source.

I'l quote the relevant bit:



It's pretty easy to see what's happening here.

The PMF echo chamber have decided that the "her" in "I had the point on her hand" meant Meredith, which would indeed be incriminating because it makes no damned sense at all.

An equally legitimate and considerably more logical interpretation is that "her" refers to Amanda, and he's hypothesising that Amanda touched Meredith and then his knife touched Amanda's hand and thus it was contaminated with Meredith's DNA.

This makes BobTheDonkey, who claimed that "in Raffaele's diary he stated that he had pricked Meredith's finger while cooking" a ******* liar.

Chalk up one more claimed slam-dunk that, once dragged out into the light of day, turned out to be complete miss.

Why am I not surprised?

No no no. "Her" refers to Meredith , after he uses the name Meredith twice in the previous sentence.
Are you pretending not to know common usage of English?

Very slippery in my opinion.
Raf KNEW it was Meredith's DNA on the knife found in his kitchen, the same knife that had been bleached, and he was responding to just that.

 

[loverofzion]

You are of course free to answer my questions or not as you see fit. However if you prefer not to do so, possibly you could get in touch with the poster with the identical username and avatar to yours who posts on the PMF forums. Possibly that Fuji would be interested in participating in this discussion?

Also, a couple of extra questions for you.

Do you still claim that we are arguing that most burglars leave stools at the crime scene, or have you accepted that we are arguing that it is merely common enough not to constitute evidence against the theory that Rudy burgled the house?

Do you still claim that there is no proper evidence that Rudy has a history of breaking and entering through second-storey windows which he breaks with rocks, burgling houses through these means, carrying knives while doing so, and threatening people with knives in order to effect an escape when caught?

Well clearly Guede did NOT climb up the wall outside Filomena's room.
So what is your point then?

Same with leaving stools. No it is NOT common in burglaries; one theory is that the drugs Rudy was using at the time created this stomach upset (ame rusg AK and RS were using by the way).
But again what point are you trying to make?

 

[loverofzion]

I compared what he does to dream analysis -- you know, the Big Book of Dream Symbols?

I already asked him for his credentials, Katody. Several days later, he wrote:




Here is the reputable-looking website for the Laboratory of Scientific Interrogation: http://www.lsiscan.com/

I have also asked him a number of time to provide a source for the theory that anything having to do with showers, water or washing also has to do with sexuality. So far, he declines to answer. Come join halides1 and me on the comment page -- Fulcanelli is there, too!

What is pure "cold reading" mode?
The man has some very significant points to add, notably that frequent mention of showering, washing and blood referring to sexual abuse and a violent crime like murder.
Apparently you have never studied psychology or you woud be more hip to these allusions in people's unconscious minds and in their words.

Read up-- it is not too late!

 

[loverofzion]

I compared what he does to dream analysis -- you know, the Big Book of Dream Symbols?

I already asked him for his credentials, Katody. Several days later, he wrote:




Here is the reputable-looking website for the Laboratory of Scientific Interrogation: http://www.lsiscan.com/

I have also asked him a number of time to provide a source for the theory that anything having to do with showers, water or washing also has to do with sexuality. So far, he declines to answer. Come join halides1 and me on the comment page -- Fulcanelli is there, too!

P.S.-
What's not reputable about the lab?
Making snide insinuations like this without back up is NEVER good practice.

 

[HumanityBlues]

No no no. "Her" refers to Meredith , after he uses the name Meredith twice in the previous sentence.
Are you pretending not to know common usage of English?

Very slippery in my opinion.
Raf KNEW it was Meredith's DNA on the knife found in his kitchen, the same knife that had been bleached, and he was responding to just that.

I agree with the first half of this honestly (not the second). Come on Kevin, you need to give up on this one. I think you're honestly the last hold out in the world here who reads Raffaele's statement that way. One is free to interpret why he said what he did under the circumstances, good or bad, but it's pretty obvious you're misinterpreting what he actually said. I would cut my losses on this one.

 

[Mary_H]

What is pure "cold reading" mode?

That was Katody's comment.

The man has some very significant points to add, notably that frequent mention of showering, washing and blood referring to sexual abuse and a violent crime like murder.
Apparently you have never studied psychology or you woud be more hip to these allusions in people's unconscious minds and in their words.

Read up-- it is not too late!

Not you too, loverofzion. Where are you guys getting this stuff? I would really love to know, so if you can provide a cite, please do. The Statement Analysis guy won't; at least he hasn't so far.

By the way, he didn't look much at the repetitious mentions of the word "blood" -- just the showers. Showers being MUCH more relevant to the subject of murder than that insignificant word "blood," I guess.

P.S.-
What's not reputable about the lab?

I didn't say the lab wasn't reputable. I said (sarcastically) that the website doesn't look reputable.

Making snide insinuations like this without back up is NEVER good practice.

That's what I keep trying to tell this guy. He's convicted Amanda of a sex murder almost solely on the basis that she and Meredith took showers, with absolutely no science or theory to back it up.

 

[Chris C]

No no no. "Her" refers to Meredith , after he uses the name Meredith twice in the previous sentence.
Are you pretending not to know common usage of English?

Very slippery in my opinion.
Raf KNEW it was Meredith's DNA on the knife found in his kitchen, the same knife that had been bleached, and he was responding to just that.

The knife was bleached? What chemical analysis was run on the knife to determine it was cleaned with bleach?

 

[Chris C]

Well clearly Guede did NOT climb up the wall outside Filomena's room.
So what is your point then?

Same with leaving stools. No it is NOT common in burglaries; one theory is that the drugs Rudy was using at the time created this stomach upset (ame rusg AK and RS were using by the way).
But again what point are you trying to make?

Well leaving stool is common in Rudy burglarys. He used the bathroom and raided the fridge in a previous one.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I agree with the first half of this honestly (not the second). Come on Kevin, you need to give up on this one. I think you're honestly the last hold out in the world here who reads Raffaele's statement that way. One is free to interpret why he said what he did under the circumstances, good or bad, but it's pretty obvious you're misinterpreting what he actually said. I would cut my losses on this one.

You're entitled to your opinion. I think it's wrong, and I think that claiming that he was definitely claiming to have touched Meredith's hand with the knife is well beyond what can be supported.

Perhaps I've encountered more university student writing than you have? That sort of mangled writing is all too common amongst people that age, even those who have made it into tertiary education.

In any case, reality is not decided by opinion poll and my opinion is not up for a vote by forum participants. I haven't seen a single decent argument for assuming Raffaele meant Meredith except "that's the last pronoun he used, so if he was writing correctly that's what he had to have meant". Knowing that Raffaele couldn't write correctly if his life depended on it, I favour the interpretation of his ambiguous text that actually makes some sense. Until a better argument than the ones that have already been presented shows up I can't see my mind changing just because a plurality of forum participants have (in my view) gotten it wrong.

 

[LondonJohn]

P.S.-
What's not reputable about the lab?
Making snide insinuations like this without back up is NEVER good practice.

It certainly looks about as reputable as "Laboratoires Garnier"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I2KnFx-kb4

 

[Katody Matrass]

Here is the reputable-looking website for the Laboratory of Scientific Interrogation: http://www.lsiscan.com/

Laboratory for Scientific Interrogation, Inc. indeed reputable

And their method is called SCAN - Scientific Content Analysis(trademark registered)

from my quick statement analysis I find that overuse of word scientific is an indicator of a strong desire for looking "scientsy" and indicates that the thing is in fact not scientific at all

Let's look what kind of training they provide SCAN training
You can become an advanced analyst/interrogator?/investigator? during an over-weekend course for a mere $900. And you will take home a book and a cd-rom! Cool I guess government entities get a discount. There's no business like being a govt contractor.

It gets only better: You can combine a full scan course with an inspiring and spiritual visit to the Holy Land -I'm not making this up !

Finally a sane look on all of this in the Skeptic's Dictionary

I have also asked him a number of time to provide a source for the theory that anything having to do with showers, water or washing also has to do with sexuality. So far, he declines to answer. Come join halides1 and me on the comment page -- Fulcanelli is there, too!

Thank's Mary! But I'd rather stay on the forum. I really hate discussions in blog comments, for me it's hard to edit and hard to read.

 

[Katody Matrass]

It certainly looks about as reputable as "Laboratoires Garnier"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I2KnFx-kb4

they at least have a laboratory.

 

[Katody Matrass]

What is pure "cold reading" mode?

It was my sarcastic non-native English way of expressing a funny similarity I notice between this guy's method and cold reading.

Cold reading is a series of techniques used by mentalists, illusionists, fortune tellers, psychics, mediums and other con artists to determine or express details about another person, often in order to convince them that the reader knows much more about a subject than they actually do.

 

[Katody Matrass]

Making snide insinuations like this without back up is NEVER good practice.

That's what I keep trying to tell this guy. He's convicted Amanda of a sex murder almost solely on the basis that she and Meredith took showers, with absolutely no science or theory to back it up.

Spot on, Mary!

BTW I did some PMF-style google investigation on the author of that blog.
You can really find info on people in most unusual places

Education/Training:
BA Degree Biblical Studies
Certification: Labratory Scientific Interrogation
Advanced Interviewing Concepts
Licensed Social Worker (LSW)

I have experience teaching children in school, as well as teaching chess and guitar

Now I'm rather in doubt he has anything to do with FBI. But that "trip to Holy Land for training" somehow fits quite good.
Disclaimer: I'm not from USA and I may have a wrong idea about what a "BA Degree Biblical Studies" stands for.

 

[Mary_H]

You're entitled to your opinion. I think it's wrong, and I think that claiming that he was definitely claiming to have touched Meredith's hand with the knife is well beyond what can be supported.

I have to say I agree. Sorry, HB. It doesn't matter anyway, since the knife wasn't the murder weapon and everything else Raffaele says is clear.

 

[LondonJohn]

I'd love to see this guys credentials. The fact that FBI pays him money wouldn't surprise me that much. Employing psychics in investigations is not unheard of, too.

Exactly. And even criminal profiling - which is by far the most mainstream of all of these sorts of techniques - can be spectacularly wrong, sometimes with devastating consequences. The FBI's finest profiling minds at Quantico were convinced that the Washington Sniper was a solo middle-aged white male, whereas of course it turned out to be two black males, one of whom was 17. This false belief undoubtedly coloured the hunt for the sniper(s), and may have led to additional deaths. In the end, the snipers themselves virtually led the police by the hand to finding them. And in the UK, a criminal profiler (who's since been widely discredited) convinced the police to pursue and entrap a totally innocent man for the murder of Rachel Nickell.

 

[LondonJohn]

Spot on, Mary!

BTW I did some PMF-style google investigation on the author of that blog.
You can really find info on people in most unusual places





Now I'm rather in doubt he has anything to do with FBI. But that "trip to Holy Land for training" somehow fits quite good.
Disclaimer: I'm not from USA and I may have a wrong idea about what a "BA Degree Biblical Studies" stands for.

But...but....he's being earnestly discussed on other forums as an expert who does "statement analysis" as a profession! I'm confused!

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>from my quick statement analysis I find that overuse of word scientific is an indicator of a strong desire for looking "scientsy" and indicates that the thing is in fact not scientific at all

LOL!

Let's look what kind of training they provide SCAN training
You can become an advanced analyst/interrogator?/investigator? during an over-weekend course for a mere $900. And you will take home a book and a cd-rom! Cool I guess government entities get a discount. There's no business like being a govt contractor.

A bargain at 1/10th the price!

It gets only better: You can combine a full scan course with an inspiring and spiritual visit to the Holy Land -I'm not making this up !

PLEASE tell me you ARE.

Finally a sane look on all of this in the Skeptic's Dictionary

Ah, very valuable information.

Thank's Mary! But I'd rather stay on the forum. I really hate discussions in blog comments, for me it's hard to edit and hard to read.

It's okay, we probably won't be there much longer -- Chris and I very quickly became personae non gratae. That's the thanks we get for increasing traffic to that crazy dude's website.