Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris_Halkides]

Today at whack-a-mole, we return to Amanda's employment

She was demoted to distributing flyers for Patrick Lumumba's bar, and Meredith was offered the job of bartending.

I guess that would make an insecure narcissist like Amanda pretty steamed up and sore at her "superior" roommate.

Do you have a citation? The only citation I have seen for this alleged demotion is the "I Fired Foxy Knoxy..." article that also claims that Patrick was abused while in custody. If you disbelieve that part of the article, why do you believe another part of it? How can one be demoted from a job that only pays 5 euros an hour? What sort of flyers were being distributed? Amanda had money in the bank and voluntarily left her job. Her employer in the U.S. praised her work ethic and interpersonal skills.

On many previous occasions i have cited testimony to the effect that any knife could have made the third wound, including the knife that made the first two. We know that the common kitchen knife did not make two of the three wounds, and there is no good reason to believe it made the third.

 

[loverofzion]

Now you understand my point. The cop may or may not show you. Yes he is suppose to. In the case against Knox/Sollecito. The prosecution has refused to show proof. They wave a piece of paper in the air and say look a partial dna profile of sollecito. The defense says prove it. The prosecution says we dont have to prove it we got this piece of paper. Yet whenever pressed to prove the results of their tests, either by independent review or the data tapes, there has been a refusal by the court or the prosecution. The defense was unable to even get them to test evidence they thought might be crucial to their defense.(semen stain) The prosecutions whole case is based on cherry picked evidence and if it didn't fit with guilty it was either thrown away or not turned over.

Nonsense Chris...you are rehashng the old conspiracy theory.
Never been proven, never even been considered seriously.
The labs were up to snuff; you are just stabbing at the air with your blanket accusations of cherry picking ad not producing evidence.

You have got to do better!

 

[loverofzion]

Nonsense Chris...you are rehashng the old conspiracy theory.
Never been proven, never even been considered seriously.
The labs were up to snuff; you are just stabbing at the air with your blanket accusations of cherry picking ad not producing evidence.

You have got to do better!

PS The semen stain was crucial to NO theory.
It would have been too hard to date it.

 

[Chris C]

It was part of the staging and moving of the body; AK and RS wanted it to look as if it were a random act of violence by an intruder.

They wouldn't have to cut off the bra to prove act of violence by an intruder. There is semen evidence left at the scene and Rudy's dna insider her body. Not counting the fact that there are no footprints from Knox or Sollecito inside the room. Which means he would have had to cut off the bra before the act of violence. Why would he need to cut off the bra before killing her to make it look like an act of violence by an intruder. Also where at in this theory is the body before it was moved?

 

[loverofzion]

Witness against Knox claims her and Sollecito where in the park up until midnight. No room for wiggle there.

They were sighted in the park looking down onto the cottage AFTER the witnesses heard a piercing scream and sounds of running footsteps (more than one person).
This was AFTER they had brutally stabbed Meredith and locked her in her room.

And how do you expalin the discrepancy between the 2 claiming they were at Raf's apt all night, and their being sighted in the park?
Hm....you are getting yourself into unexplainable quandaries.

 

[loverofzion]

They wouldn't have to cut off the bra to prove act of violence by an intruder. There is semen evidence left at the scene and Rudy's dna insider her body. Not counting the fact that there are no footprints from Knox or Sollecito inside the room. Which means he would have had to cut off the bra before the act of violence. Why would he need to cut off the bra before killing her to make it look like an act of violence by an intruder. Also where at in this theory is the body before it was moved?

There was no semen evidence of Rudy Guede in that cottage.
There was a possible semen stain which was impossible to date; it was not Rudy's.
And yes cutting off the bra would make it look as if it had been a sex crime by the selfsame intruder who "burgled" Filomena's possessions.


What part don't you understand?

 

[loverofzion]

Do you have a citation? The only citation I have seen for this alleged demotion is the "I Fired Foxy Knoxy..." article that also claims that Patrick was abused while in custody. If you disbelieve that part of the article, why do you believe another part of it? How can one be demoted from a job that only pays 5 euros an hour? What sort of flyers were being distributed? Amanda had money in the bank and voluntarily left her job. Her employer in the U.S. praised her work ethic and interpersonal skills.

On many previous occasions i have cited testimony to the effect that any knife could have made the third wound, including the knife that made the first two. We know that the common kitchen knife did not make two of the three wounds, and there is no good reason to believe it made the third.

Believe me you can be demoted even from that kind of job.
Fliers were distribvuted to students and young people; that is hardly unusual.
Yes she was demoted in deference to Meredith.
I don't know the article of whcih you speak; can you cite it?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Dr. Hampikian on the lack of discovery

loverofzion,

Here is a portion of an article ("Unraveling the truth from DNA") by Fiona Ness with a quote from Dr. Hampikian (who identifies Knox as a client), "Trying to obtain the evidence to have it retested, however, is proving difficult. ‘‘The discovery rules in Italy are different to what I’m used to. It’s fairly routine in the US that I send a request and get what I want.

But in the Knox case I haven’t been able to get a copy of the standard operating procedures of the lab and without that, it’s hard to see if they even followed their own guidelines."

Evidence, Hampikian says, is a matter of science, to be reviewed, not protected."

Last November the Johnson/Hampikian open letter faulted the prosecution for the lack of release of the electronic data files. I would argue for full discovery even if I felt the DNA evidence were strong. Given its literal weakness in the case of the knife and the fact that it is a mixture in the case of the clasp, not releasing the data is unconscionable.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

I think we're heading to the same scenario.

Amanda was mad about being fired and got into a fight with Meridith about it.
The two guys sided with Amanda and death resulted.

Death resulted from a savage attack in which Meredith was thrown to the floor and had her throat slashed by an assailant wielding a small knife in his right hand. When the struggle was over, he dragged her body to a different spot, took her clothes off and sexually assaulted her. That is what the physical evidence actually shows.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Citation for a tabloid article on Mr. Lumumba and Ms. Knox

Believe me you can be demoted even from that kind of job.
Fliers were distribvuted to students and young people; that is hardly unusual.
Yes she was demoted in deference to Meredith.
I don't know the article of whcih you speak; can you cite it?

Of course. Please tell me why you find it selectively credible. In other words, please explain why it is credible when it talks about the putative demotion but not when it talks about Lumumba's incarceration.

Can you give me a citation on the distribution of flyers, preferably one that would explain why he needed this particular service, what it paid, and how many hours per week it entailed? I asked tsig about the flyers yesterday and received no response.

 

[Chris C]

There was no semen evidence of Rudy Guede in that cottage.
There was a possible semen stain which was impossible to date; it was not Rudy's.
And yes cutting off the bra would make it look as if it had been a sex crime by the selfsame intruder who "burgled" Filomena's possessions.


What part don't you understand?

Impossible to date? Couldn't the same be said for Knox's dna in the bathroom. Your trying to play both sides. If the semen stain is impossible to date, so is Knox's dna. Since the semen was never tested we dont know who it belongs to. I bet if it came back as Sollecito's dna, everyone would say see he helped murder her. Of course apparently Semens stains shouldn't be tested in Sexual Assault crimes, because they are to hard to date. Plus how do we know its not Rudy's? The prosecution refused to test it.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

the stain

PS The semen stain was crucial to NO theory.
It would have been too hard to date it.

In a separate comment, you said, "There was no semen evidence of Rudy Guede in that cottage. There was a possible semen stain which was impossible to date; it was not Rudy's."

How do you know it was not Rudy's if it were not tested? If it had been tested for DNA and found to belong to Raffaele, it would be the single strongest clue against him. If it were found to be Rudy's, it would indicate a more extensive sexual assault than had been previously believed (presumed digital/genital contact).

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

How does Raffaele cutting off Meredith's bra fit into the picture?

That’s how he gets his DNA on it. They break the window, mess up the room, try and make it look like a break-in turned rape/murder. They don't know Rudy did all he did, like Rudy said, Meredith had her pants on when he left. Even Amanda's lite in the room is from RS cutting off the bra and looking for the clasp, Amanda came in to help, but not until RS covered Meredith's body with the duvet. Amanda and RS didn't even see the body until somewhere between 11 and 11:30, the Scream, was actual Amanda when she walked in Meredith’s room.
The two had plenty of chances to just call the police, but the longer they waited, the harder it was. They decided to try and clear up any traced of Amanda being there and fake the break-in. Bad choice, another one was trying to beat the rap in court, which didn't happen, but everyone they talked to, said it would happen, their families and lawyers, told them they would get out of there free. You would think they would come clean now though, during the appeals but one again, their families, friends and lawyers are convincing them they will be exonerated. The longer they wait, again the harder it will be, because who will believe them when and if they do tell the truth.

 

[LondonJohn]

There was no semen evidence of Rudy Guede in that cottage.
There was a possible semen stain which was impossible to date; it was not Rudy's.
And yes cutting off the bra would make it look as if it had been a sex crime by the selfsame intruder who "burgled" Filomena's possessions.


What part don't you understand?

How did Sollecito and Knox plant Guede's DNA* inside Meredith's genitals?

Oh, and according to the defence experts, the pillowcase stain (the one which lit up as semen using crimescope lighting) showed evidence of having been smeared by at least one of the bloody shoeprints on the pillowcase. This would suggest that the source of the stain was still wet when the bloody shoeprints were deposited. This might make it a little easier to date than you suspect.

* DNA which - importantly - was carefully collected at the autopsy on the day after the murder, and which was easily and reliably testable at standard PCR levels. As opposed to, you know, DNA which was collected over six weeks after the crime, from a vital piece of evidence which the "crack" forensic team neglected to collect at the right time, which had been almost literally kicked around the crime scene, which was originally under the body in the middle of the room, but which was found six weeks later in a pile of debris, which was passed around a number of "crack" forensic officers wearing soiled gloves, which was tested at a state-run forensics lab where there were reference samples of Sollecito's DNA, where the forensics officer was instructed specifically to look for the DNA of those in custody, and where Sollecito's DNA was apparently discovered in LCN-level quantities - together with DNA from at least two unidentified strangers. And that's not even starting on the "murder knife".........

 

[LondonJohn]

That’s how he gets his DNA on it. They break the window, mess up the room, try and make it look like a break-in turned rape/murder. They don't know Rudy did all he did, like Rudy said, Meredith had her pants on when he left. Even Amanda's lite in the room is from RS cutting off the bra and looking for the clasp, Amanda came in to help, but not until RS covered Meredith's body with the duvet. Amanda and RS didn't even see the body until somewhere between 11 and 11:30, the Scream, was actual Amanda when she walked in Meredith’s room.
The two had plenty of chances to just call the police, but the longer they waited, the harder it was. They decided to try and clear up any traced of Amanda being there and fake the break-in. Bad choice, another one was trying to beat the rap in court, which didn't happen, but everyone they talked to, said it would happen, their families and lawyers, told them they would get out of there free. You would think they would come clean now though, during the appeals but one again, their families, friends and lawyers are convincing them they will be exonerated. The longer they wait, again the harder it will be, because who will believe them when and if they do tell the truth.

If "the scream" was made by Knox reacting to seeing Meredith's body - as opposed to being made by Meredith while being attacked - then which two people were heard "running up the metal stairs and along the gravel pathway" just after the scream? Are you suggesting the Knox's scream caused her and Sollecito to run away from the house in different directions? Or are you suggesting that part of Nara's witness testimony is correct and part is incorrect?

 

[LondonJohn]

That’s how he gets his DNA on it. They break the window, mess up the room, try and make it look like a break-in turned rape/murder. They don't know Rudy did all he did, like Rudy said, Meredith had her pants on when he left. Even Amanda's lite in the room is from RS cutting off the bra and looking for the clasp, Amanda came in to help, but not until RS covered Meredith's body with the duvet. Amanda and RS didn't even see the body until somewhere between 11 and 11:30, the Scream, was actual Amanda when she walked in Meredith’s room.
The two had plenty of chances to just call the police, but the longer they waited, the harder it was. They decided to try and clear up any traced of Amanda being there and fake the break-in. Bad choice, another one was trying to beat the rap in court, which didn't happen, but everyone they talked to, said it would happen, their families and lawyers, told them they would get out of there free. You would think they would come clean now though, during the appeals but one again, their families, friends and lawyers are convincing them they will be exonerated. The longer they wait, again the harder it will be, because who will believe them when and if they do tell the truth.

Oh and in relation to your theory, how do the three sober, reliable witnesses whose car broke down opposite the murder house fit in? They were there between 10.30pm and at least 11.30pm (corroborated by the pick-up service and truck driver), with a clear view of the cottage - including the front door and Filomena's/Amanda's windows - and they confidently stated that they saw or heard nothing within the house - no lights or noises - for the whole time they were there, and that nobody entered or left the house during that whole period either.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

If "the scream" was made by Knox reacting to seeing Meredith's body - as opposed to being made by Meredith while being attacked - then which two people were heard "running up the metal stairs and along the gravel pathway" just after the scream? Are you suggesting the Knox's scream caused her and Sollecito to run away from the house in different directions? Or are you suggesting that part of Nara's witness testimony is correct and part is incorrect?

I don't know, are there more than 3 people living in Pergia, the other could have been unrelated.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Oh and in relation to your theory, how do the three sober, reliable witnesses whose car broke down opposite the murder house fit in? They were there between 10.30pm and at least 11.30pm (corroborated by the pick-up service and truck driver), with a clear view of the cottage - including the front door and Filomena's/Amanda's windows - and they confidently stated that they saw or heard nothing within the house - no lights or noises - for the whole time they were there, and that nobody entered or left the house during that whole period either.

More like 10:30 to 11:15, Amanda and RS had to wait for them to leave before entering the house, hense the scream at the right time, no?

 

[LondonJohn]

I don't know, are there more than 3 people living in Pergia, the other could have been unrelated.

Sounds plausible.......................

 

[Chris C]

That’s how he gets his DNA on it. They break the window, mess up the room, try and make it look like a break-in turned rape/murder. They don't know Rudy did all he did, like Rudy said, Meredith had her pants on when he left. Even Amanda's lite in the room is from RS cutting off the bra and looking for the clasp, Amanda came in to help, but not until RS covered Meredith's body with the duvet. Amanda and RS didn't even see the body until somewhere between 11 and 11:30, the Scream, was actual Amanda when she walked in Meredith’s room.
The two had plenty of chances to just call the police, but the longer they waited, the harder it was. They decided to try and clear up any traced of Amanda being there and fake the break-in. Bad choice, another one was trying to beat the rap in court, which didn't happen, but everyone they talked to, said it would happen, their families and lawyers, told them they would get out of there free. You would think they would come clean now though, during the appeals but one again, their families, friends and lawyers are convincing them they will be exonerated. The longer they wait, again the harder it will be, because who will believe them when and if they do tell the truth.

How did Sollecito get his dna on the clasp and not on the bra? Or the body, Or anywhere else in the room. Better yet, it hasn't even been proven its his dna. How did the other 3 people get their dna on the bra clasp.