Split Thread SAIC, ARA and 9/11 (split from "All 43 videos...")

Here's more of what Patricia Ondrovic revealed and more evidence of the withholding from the public of what she saw.
Pure fantasy based speculation. There is nothing to indicate that she was reporting anything that she saw.
It is also quite clear that Patricia Ondrovic was upset because of what she saw, not because she was weak, but rather, because of the extraordinary nature of what she saw.
You finally state something that is correct.
It is fair and reasonable to interpret her statement as being consistent with her being one of the foremost DEW witnesses there is.
Pure fantasy based speculation. Only a delusional and twisted person would make such a statement.
I do not know how many people agree with what has been proven to be the case (that DEW was a causal factor in the destruction of the WTC on 9/11), but I do assert that Patricia Ondrovic not only agrees, but she is also a direct eyewitness.
Only you state this which is irrefutable proof that you are a sick and twisted individual that has no concept of reality. Your assertions have been proven to be purely fantasy based and it has also been proven that you don't believe in what you claim.
Read it (what can be read) and weep:

[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/ondrovic9-12.jpg?t=1283785461[/qimg]
This is proof of nothing.
 
How secrecy fostered 9/11

Greetings Posters, Lurkers and Victims Family Members,

You have no security clearance that I'm aware of, and you have no "need to know" classified information even if you do have a clearance.

I could not have said it better myself, Skinny. Thank you for your revealing post. In the above we have exact confirmation of how 9/11 happened. The "secrecy" apparatus works in exactly the manner outlined for us so succinctly by Skinny. There are layers upon layers of secrecy, based on a "need to know" formula.

Accordingly, many, many people can engage in a process, each knowing only what tiny fraction of the whole they have "need" of to carryout their assigned task.

So it was on 9/11 inside the context of the MILITARY EXERCISES, simulating hijackings, among other things.

You can avail yourself of any publically available information that you can find. Beyond that, I can't help you. In fact, I don't even know what information you think I'm withholding. Does the fact that I work for the Air Force mean that I have access to all the "secrets" of the MIC? I'd tell you to "get serious", but your world view is so bizzare IMHO, I'm not sure what "serious" would mean to you.

There is no basis for the above misinterpretation of what I have posted and dialogued with you about, Skinny.

Please do not stay that far off the track.

I am asking you to engage in dialogue based on publicly available information. Like "secrecy" layers, there are also layers where "public" information is concerned. You might well know of publicly available information that others do not know of. It is alsopossible you know of the existence publicly available information as soon as it becomes "public."

All I'm suggesting you do is be forthcoming with what you can be forthcoming with and participate in the DEW, PSYOPs, MIC dialogue that is being attempted in this thread.

If you cannot or do not want to do so, then fine. That is your perrogative.

And yes, I'll continue to criticize what you posts as I see fit. Sorry if you don't like it.

I never said I don't like criticism. You may feel free to criticize my posts to your hearts content. You are welcome to it and I appreciate the value that your posts add to the thread.

all the best
 
OK, now that we've engaged in that little pas de deux can we now return to posting up useful information about DEW...

I suggest you start do so, since DEW is your ... suggestion (not claim, not theory, really).

To help you along in this endeavour, allow me to guide and structure your thinking with a few questions. These are from the catalogue of 16 unanswered questions you chose to dodge 2 pages ago. I'll be nice to you and boil them down to the most pertinent questions obout one issue only. namely DEW. I also reorder (but not renumber) them. I think they should be answered in the order in which I present them:

10. What is the DEW technology that you insinuate? What are its physical and technical properties?
For clarity of understanding: Are we talking about lasers here? Then you should discuss wavelength, power, duration of pulses, and effect on target.

14. What are the estimated minimum capacities of your supposed DEW to bring about the destruction of 9/11? List assumptions and show work!

12. Which observations were made on 9/11 that match the physical and technical properties of your supposed DEW technology?

16. Which proof do you have that any of the said entities did in fact possess these minimum DEW capacities?

3. What is your proof for the claims contained in the phrase "the deployment of that weaponry is being done with caution precisely because its lethality range is so great that one mistake and the whole darn planet might be put at risk".



I realise that you have made an attempt to provide a first hint towards a partial answer to question 12, namely some statements made by one untrained and highly distressed individual, Patricia Ondrovic. We find these statements very unconvincing. She is burning, running for her life, learning terrifying news as she just escaped with her life, and she sees - planes in the distance. Like there wouldn't be any planes in the airspace over the largest metropolitan area of the western world. It is totally unclear what her statements habe to do with DEW. Perhaps you shoud first answer questions 10 and 14, and then explain how the sight of planes in the distance is indicative of DEW, or even the sight of a plane in the distance disappearing into a golf-ball-sized fireball is indicative of DEW.
If the screen caps you presented in post 484 are supposed to look vaguely like what Patricia Ondrovic described (I disagree with that), then you also need to realize that this light represents a laser that can melt a little steel, some grams, maybe an ounce. You must explain if that is consistent with "capacities" to cause the damages of 9/11.

In other words: Do better!
 
Hi Bill,

Yes, that video makes a compelling case for DEW based on the oddity of cars, otherwise undamaged from debris being fully consumed by fire, especially in the engine compartments, while paper lies unaffected. As you probably know, this is a claim that has been made by Dr. Judy Wood for over 4 years, based on the use of visual evidence similar to that found in the video.

I think I'm going to take a very close look at the video and post accordingly.

Thanks for posting this. I will also take a closer look at the thread on the video.

all the best

Even the pool of sunlight in this clip hardly burns the paper..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EuWmvYMk2s
 
Pure fantasy based speculation. There is nothing to indicate that she was reporting anything that she saw.
You finally state something that is correct.
Pure fantasy based speculation. Only a delusional and twisted person would make such a statement.
Only you state this which is irrefutable proof that you are a sick and twisted individual that has no concept of reality. Your assertions have been proven to be purely fantasy based and it has also been proven that you don't believe in what you claim.
This is proof of nothing.

Lapman,

OK, I think we're reaching the utility limit here. If you disagree with the interpretation of the Patricia Ondrovic statement I have put forward and if the redacting of it is fine with you, then fine.

Is there any information you can independently provide concerning DEW, PSYOPs, the MIC, the Eisenhower MIC admonition, TOP SECRECY procedures and outcomes, SAIC, ARA, BOEING, RAYTHEON, TRW, or any of the other DEW manufacturers or any other aspect of this thread?

Or, is your usefulness limited to finding ways to disagree with me and the information I source and post and interpret?:boggled:
 
Before Patricia relates her sighting planes in the distance, she tells us this:

"I was falling over people, cause people were crawling on the ground cause they couldn't see anymore. I just kept on running north.
...
As I was running north in this park, and then I could start
seeing again a little bit, and I just kept looking in the sky.
"

Then she relates this intriguing little tale about planes, that culminates in the strange observation:
"Then the plane in the middle just disappeared into a little fire ball. It looked like the size of a golf ball from where I could see it."

So we learn she sees these things as the air around was just starting to get clear enough to see anything at all. Before, it was thick with smoke and dust (because, as she didn't realize at the time, the first tower had just collapsed)

She goes on:
"I just kept on running north. About fifteen blocks later"
(This only to illustrate that the next observation is made a coniderable time and distance further away from GZ and the collapse)
"As I got like 15, 20 blocks away ... "
(not sure if this is the same 15 blocks, or an additional 15 to 20 blocks)
"... All you could see was black smoke and that's all I can see at that point."
So still, visibility was very bad!

Patricia tells us about her state of mind around that time:
"I don't know what happened ... You know, it was surreal, like it wasn't really happening. ... at that point I was screaming at him ... I started getting really scared, and really upset, cause people were telling me to go back in and die. ... Lieutenant Hanlon came over to me and said are you okay? I said no ... At that point I was crying ..."


So here is a woman, scared to death, traumatized, highly stressed. She is surrounded by dust and smoke that severely impart vision.


I think her testimony is interesting and valuable to give us an intimate and first hand impression of what conditions were on the ground and how they affected the people who were there.
However, she can be excused for not observing very carefully with an eye for minute technical details. She did not even observe and identify as such the elephant in the room, which was the freaking collapse of the freaking tower.

But Patricia Ondrovic is certainly no witness whose statement can be taken without a heavy grain of salt when trying to reconstruct the events of that fateful hour.
 
Here's more of what Patricia Ondrovic revealed and more evidence of the withholding from the public of what she saw.

It is also quite clear that Patricia Ondrovic was upset because of what she saw, not because she was weak, but rather, because of the extraordinary nature of what she saw.

It is fair and reasonable to interpret her statement as being consistent with her being one of the foremost DEW witnesses there is.

I do not know how many people agree with what has been proven to be the case (that DEW was a causal factor in the destruction of the WTC on 9/11), but I do assert that Patricia Ondrovic not only agrees, but she is also a direct eyewitness.

Read it (what can be read) and weep:

[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/ondrovic9-12.jpg?t=1283785461[/qimg]
I'm sorry my imagination has been tainted by years of being an adult.

I'll let my 12 year old take a look and see if he can see in to this what you do.

I'll let you know what he says.
 
Lapman,

OK, I think we're reaching the utility limit here. If you disagree with the interpretation of the Patricia Ondrovic statement I have put forward and if the redacting of it is fine with you, then fine.
It's more than just a disagreement. Your interpretation has no basis in reality.
Is there any information you can independently provide concerning DEW, PSYOPs, the MIC, the Eisenhower MIC admonition, TOP SECRECY procedures and outcomes, SAIC, ARA, BOEING, RAYTHEON, TRW, or any of the other DEW manufacturers or any other aspect of this thread?
All the information has already been given by others. There is nothing more to add. Just because you hand wave it away doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
Or, is your usefulness limited to finding ways to disagree with me and the information I source and post and interpret?:boggled:
As I stated, it's more than just a disagreement. You have been proven to be a charlatan on more than one occasion. Your continuous hand waving away anything contrary to your fictitious claims is further proof.
 
jammonius, I have a very basic question to you. This is about basic physics. Please read the following claim that I make:


In order for buildings to get destroyed the way the WTC was destroyed on 9/11, and end up in the shape they were found at the end of the day, their materials (such as steel, aluminium, ...) must be deformed.
By deformation I mean things such as: changing shape (bending etc.), changing physical state (melting...), changing chemical state (reactions), coming apart (cutting, breaking, grinding...) or coming together (fusion).
This is done through mechanisms of work, such as applying mechanical force, heat, radiation, etc.
Work is always the transfer of energy.
If this is done within a certain amount of time, the energy transfer / deformation happens at a rate called power.
So for all the deformation that takes place during a building collapse, a certain amount of work must be done, and that implies that a certain amount of energy must be available to start with.



(Note: I have linked several physical terms to Wikipedia, so we know more precisely the meaning of these words. When I do link, the meaning of the term linked to is the meaning I wish to imply).


So here is the question, jammonius:

Do you agree with the above declaration? If not, what do you not agree with?

I ask this to get a clearer understanding of why you reject what you call the "energy canard".
If the above is true, and you agree with it, then certainly, a full theory of 9/11 and its technical aspects must ultimately account for the work done on the buildings, and explain where the energy came from.
 
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It's more than just a disagreement. Your interpretation has no basis in reality.

Do you hold yourself out as being the arbiter of what is real and what is not?

All the information has already been given by others. There is nothing more to add. Just because you hand wave it away doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

Let me double check for accuracy of understanding: Are you acknowledging you have not got anything you can independently provide concerning DEW, PSYOPs, the MIC, the Eisenhower MIC admonition, TOP SECRECY procedures and outcomes, SAIC, ARA, BOEING, RAYTHEON, TRW, or any of the other DEW manufacturers or any other aspect of this thread all as was previously asked?

As I stated, it's more than just a disagreement. You have been proven to be a charlatan on more than one occasion. Your continuous hand waving away anything contrary to your fictitious claims is further proof.

A "charlatan" you say? I will have to do a little checking, but that might be a new label. It is too bad that your independent contribution to this thread is so limited, but if that is the best you can do, then so be it. :p
 
Do you hold yourself out as being the arbiter of what is real and what is not?
Nope. Just stating the proven facts. If you can't handle that, that's your problem.


Let me double check for accuracy of understanding: Are you acknowledging you have not got anything you can independently provide concerning DEW, PSYOPs, the MIC, the Eisenhower MIC admonition, TOP SECRECY procedures and outcomes, SAIC, ARA, BOEING, RAYTHEON, TRW, or any of the other DEW manufacturers or any other aspect of this thread all as was previously asked?
Again, I cannot provide anything that hasn't already been posted by others. The onus is on YOU to provide actual evidence that a DEW exists that has the capability to perform as you claim it did. You have yet to do so. Your request is only a diversion from the fact that you have nothing to back what you say. Instead, you make up information and twist and distort other information in an attempt to support the claims that you have shown that you don't believe in.
A "charlatan" you say? I will have to do a little checking, but that might be a new label. It is too bad that your independent contribution to this thread is so limited, but if that is the best you can do, then so be it. :p
Posting facts is the best I can do. I would rather not make up stories like you do.
 
jammonius, I have a very basic question to you. This is about basic physics. Please read the following claim that I make:


In order for buildings to get destroyed the way the WTC was destroyed on 9/11, and end up in the shape they were found at the end of the day, their materials (such as steel, aluminium, ...) must be deformed.
By deformation I mean things such as: changing shape (bending etc.), changing physical state (melting...), changing chemical state (reactions), coming apart (cutting, breaking, grinding...) or coming together (fusion).
This is done through mechanisms of work, such as applying mechanical force, heat, radiation, etc.
Work is always the transfer of energy.
If this is done within a certain amount of time, the energy transfer / deformation happens at a rate called power.
So for all the deformation that takes place during a building collapse, a certain amount of work must be done, and that implies that a certain amount of energy must be available to start with.



(Note: I have linked several physical terms to Wikipedia, so we know more precisely the meaning of these words. When I do link, the meaning of the term linked to is the meaning I wish to imply).


So here is the question, jammonius:

Do you agree with the above declaration? If not, what do you not agree with?

I ask this to get a clearer understanding of why you reject what you call the "energy canard".
If the above is true, and you agree with it, then certainly, a full theory of 9/11 and its technical aspects must ultimately account for the work done on the buildings, and explain where the energy came from.

You have not yet made a coherent claim that is of any signficance. In the first place, you have not provided an adequate frame of reference based on the observed and observable database from which any discussion of the energy involved in the complete and total annihilation of the WTC complex on 9/11 can take place.

I will here help you out:

destructioneffectsampleeneergy.jpg


Please continue the process of posting up a complete claim, including reference point centered in what was observed, and then we'll see where we can go from there. Keep in mind that SAIC and ARA are each skilled in assessing the lethality effects of weapons, conventional and exotic, including DEW.

The effects seen in the posted photo compilation are consistent with destruction by DEW. Ask SAIC and ARA if you have trouble grasping the concept.

good luck
 
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You have not yet made a coherent claim that is of any signficance. In the first place, you have not provided an adequate frame of reference based on the observed and observable database from which any discussion of the energy involved in the complete and total annihilation of the WTC complex on 9/11 can take place...

Oh, you seemed to have missed the frame of reference I intended to provide:

That frame of reference is: Physics


I am asking if you agree that any theory of 9/11 (or indeed any theory at all about anything in the real world) should have as its frame of reference the physical laws of this universe?

Because by rejecting the "energy canard", and by ignoring all calls for providing a frame of reference for the physical and technical specs of real world DEW, I concluded that you do not wish to present your case within the frame of physical laws, and instead reserve the possibilty of making a case outside the frame of reference provided by physics.



here is a simpler wording of my question, jammonius:

Do you agree that your theory, whatever it will be, must be framed within the known laws of physics?
 
Yes, that video makes a compelling case for DEW based on the oddity of cars, otherwise undamaged from debris being fully consumed by fire, especially in the engine compartments, while paper lies unaffected. As you probably know, this is a claim that has been made by Dr. Judy Wood for over 4 years, based on the use of visual evidence similar to that found in the video.

Why does the 'DEW' make a car engine burn but not paper?
 
[qimg]http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af205/jfibonacci/album3/destructioneffectsampleeneergy.jpg?t=1283795223[/qimg]....

...The effects seen in the posted photo compilation are consistent with destruction by DEW.

They are also consistant with collapse due to fire. Whoever the idiot was who originally labeled the meteorite as containing melted metals needs to go sit in the corner with the pointy paper cap on his head.
 
They are also consistant with collapse due to fire. Whoever the idiot was who originally labeled the meteorite as containing melted metals needs to go sit in the corner with the pointy paper cap on his head.

It was an architect I think. I have the video of him saying it. Would you like me to post it ?
 
Oystein,

Your post #553 has a ring of desparation to it. It is as if you cannot survive if I do not answer some question, any question, no matter how inane, that you post up. Get a grip. You need to re-think your approach and go ahead and post a claim if you've got one to post.
 
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