Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

[Akhenaten]

Oh...almost forgot, do all the Atheists and Agnostics who died for their beliefs count too?GB

Who were they?

For starters:

блокада Ленинграда - The Siege of Leningrad

Red Army 1,332,059 Killed, 24,324 non combat related deaths, 111,142 MIA

Civilians 16,474 dead due to combat or bombing, 632,253 died of hunger.​

Should I post a list of their names for you?

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

Who were they?

That's a joke right?

Or are you claiming that none of the people massacred over hundreds of years by Crusaders or the Inquisition were murdered for the Heresy of Atheism or questioning the beliefs of the Church?

GB

 

[Aepervius]

You don't really think you're fooling anyone here do you, DOC?

Along this thread I have formed the firm opinion that DOC is not trying to convince us, but to convince himself. I betcha he has doubt, and he is throwing all his faith at us as evidenced to avoid looking at his doubt. Viewed in this light it explains why DOC keep fudging the same bad "evidence" over and over and keep saying he already demonstrated his point.

 

[Twiler]

Along this thread I have formed the firm opinion that DOC is not trying to convince us, but to convince himself. I betcha he has doubt, and he is throwing all his faith at us as evidenced to avoid looking at his doubt. Viewed in this light it explains why DOC keep fudging the same bad "evidence" over and over and keep saying he already demonstrated his point.

Yeah!

If he really had faith, why would he care about the evidence?

Unless... You don't think he could be making it up because he can't bear other people not thinking as he does? Surely not!

 

[joobz]

We're not talking about ancient Greece we're talking about a narrative that happens in Palestine that has 30 verified historical people (all verified by non-Christian sources or archaeology) and people are being martyred for these events. Nobody was dying for Greek plays. And name some Judean plays or Judean novels of the time of Jesus.

So you admit that the writers of the gospels, As they were written in greek, would have been familiar with greek writings, including the plays and stories?


OH, and let me dissuade you of your notion that the roman empire didn't have literature:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classics#Classical_Rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propertius
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Annaeus_Lucanus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pliny_the_younger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petronius

 

[joobz]

So the fact that the tomb of Christ (whom Roman historian/senator Tacitus reported received the supreme penalty from Pontius Pilate) was empty

IT's not a fact. It's a story. And a rather lame one at that.

and the famous Jesus' body has never been found is not some evidence to you that the NT writers were telling the truth.

Evidence that he was famous at the time of his death?

 

[Gandalfs Beard]

So you admit that the writers of the gospels, As they were written in greek, would have been familiar with greek writings, including the plays and stories?


OH, and let me dissuade you of your notion that the roman empire didn't have literature:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classics#Classical_Rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propertius
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Annaeus_Lucanus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pliny_the_younger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petronius

Indeed. CS Lewis would have been shocked... SHOCKED I tell you, that another Christian Apologist (that would be DOC) could have been so uninformed as to deny the existence of some of Lewis's favourite Classical Pagan Literature.

GB

 

[amb]

So the fact that the tomb of Christ (whom Roman historian/senator Tacitus reported received the supreme penalty from Pontius Pilate) was empty and the famous Jesus' body has never been found is not some evidence to you that the NT writers were telling the truth.

Perhaps that was because there never was a body of an earthly Jesus to begin with.

 

[Mojo]

Actually I don't believe I've said something is evidence strictly because it is in the NT.

You may have missed this:

Actually I don't believe I've said something is evidence strictly because it is in the NT.

What's this then? A ham sandwich?

We have no known eyewitness testimonies of the life of christ.

Actually Paul the author of much of the NT stated Jesus appeared to him:

1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Cr 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Cr 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Cr 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Cr 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Cr 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

I can easily quote about a thousand other examples if you need them.

ETA: and here's one you prepared later:

So the fact that the tomb of Christ (whom Roman historian/senator Tacitus reported received the supreme penalty from Pontius Pilate) was empty and the famous Jesus' body has never been found is not some evidence to you that the NT writers were telling the truth.

Do you have any evidence for the "fact" that the tomb of Christ was empty?

 

[Aepervius]

IT's not a fact. It's a story. And a rather lame one at that.


Evidence that he was famous at the time of his death?

I could imagine the tomb being empty. As far as i can tell tomb robbing, and corpse reusage (especially if embalmed) may have been wide spring.

 

[GrandMasterFox]

I could imagine the tomb being empty. As far as i can tell tomb robbing, and corpse reusage (especially if embalmed) may have been wide spring.

Or someone wanted to fake a new religion...

 

[Mojo]

So the fact that the tomb of Christ (whom Roman historian/senator Tacitus reported received the supreme penalty from Pontius Pilate) was empty and the famous Jesus' body has never been found is not some evidence to you that the NT writers were telling the truth.

Is the fact that the famous Captain Ahab's body has never been found not some evidence to you that Herman Melville was telling the truth?

 

[amb]

DOC, the very idea is just plain ridiculous. Let's pretend that there was a god, and he/she/it has the power to bring a universe into being besides creating all that there is and will be.
To suggest such a being would/could come to this little speck of dust in a vast universe that's almost infinite to die on a cross in an obscure place and then to rise again a few hours later, just does not make any sense at all. There could well be a trillion habituated other earths out there. What, he has to go and die on each one to provide salvation to a small percentage of the inhabitants, just does not compute. It's just myth born of our been afraid of the unknown. Nothing more.

 

[Rincewind]

DOC,

There is NO evidence that the apostles were martyred.

Why, oh why, do you keep claiming that there is?

Where's your evidence?

Thank you....

 

[RoboTimbo]

There's not much use sending me a PM, linking to this thread, when I ask for evidence, is there, DOC?

Unbelievable! He's still sending Prosletyzing Messages!

Along this thread I have formed the firm opinion that DOC is not trying to convince us, but to convince himself. I betcha he has doubt, and he is throwing all his faith at us as evidenced to avoid looking at his doubt. Viewed in this light it explains why DOC keep fudging the same bad "evidence" over and over and keep saying he already demonstrated his point.

From Sept 21, 2009:

DOC is mainly trying to convince DOC. Realizing how weak his arguments are, he is in danger of becoming an atheist himself. He has to keep repeating his mantras or he is in danger of thinkiing outside his religious box, possibly the worst thing that can happen to a religious fundy.

 

[Aepervius]

Or someone wanted to fake a new religion...

Or it was all a hoax, JC was simply getting the money off the apostle and various people, paid the roman to fake an execution (which explain the lack of breaking his leg while being crucified) then once "entombed" an accomplice freed him. They then got greedy and one tried to kill the other to keep all the money, and JC finished his life as an anonymous corpse in a nearby river. Maybe I can sell the idea to Dan Brown ? *duck to avoid tomatoe throws*

 

[kmortis]

[George Hrab]
An' 'ere we are today fer Rupert McClannahan's Indestructable Bah-sterds...[/GH]

Simon the Zealot: from various traditions:
Crucified in Samaria, AD 74.
Sawn in half at Suanir, Persia.
Martyred at Weriosphora in Caucasian Iberia.
Died peacefully at Edessa.
Martyred in Caistor (in modern day Lincolnshire)
Also, killed in a Jewish revolt against the Romans.
Busy, busy, busy, huh?

 

[Elizabeth I]

That's a joke right?

Or are you claiming that none of the people massacred over hundreds of years by Crusaders or the Inquisition were murdered for the Heresy of Atheism or questioning the beliefs of the Church?

GB

I'm pretty sure the answer will be that those committing the massacres were No True Christians^TM.

 

[DOC]

DOC is mainly trying to convince DOC. Realizing how weak his arguments are, he is in danger of becoming an atheist himself.

No, I was a atheist in my mid 20's, I've already been there.

 

[DOC]

There's not much use sending me a PM, linking to this thread, when I ask for evidence, is there, DOC?

So then you don't want me to give you evidence from this thread when you ask for it.

Unbelievable! He's still sending Prosletyzing Messages!

Giving evidence when it is asked for is not prosletyzing.