Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth.

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Today I will start rereading Euripides, Aeschylos and Sofokles, not to mention Aristophanes, and look at what I read in a completely new light, since I now know that they are just reporting facts, not writing fiction.

DOC, I would really like to see some evidence that fiction was almost nonexistent. Do you happen to have any?
 
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zooterkin said:
If I told you that Thomas Jefferson appeared to me, would you believe me? What is it about Paul saying it that makes it more believable?
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It's in the New Testament, so in DOC's universe it is "Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth."
 
joobz said:
Ancient greece was FAMOUS for their plays, stories,... they knew how to tell a good story. These were written down.
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We're not talking about ancient Greece we're talking about a narrative that happens in Palestine that has 30 verified historical people (all verified by non-Christian sources or archaeology) and people are being martyred for these events. Nobody was dying for Greek plays. And name some Judean plays or Judean novels of the time of Jesus.
 
Is this nonsense:

DOC said:
We're not talking about ancient Greece we're talking about a narrative that happens in Palestine that has 30 verified historical people (all verified by non-Christian sources or archaeology) and people are being martyred for these events. Nobody was dying for Greek plays. And name some Judean plays or Judean novels of the time of Jesus.
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seriously meant to be a reply to this?


joobz said:
DOC said:
Fiction was almost non-existent at that time.

<snip>
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This is one of the craziest arguments I've ever read.

1. The oldest known written piece of anything is the epic of gilgamesh, a fictional story.
2. The original gospels were written in greek.
3. Ancient greece was FAMOUS for their plays, stories,... they knew how to tell a good story. These were written down.
4. Anyhone who could read greek would know this background literature.
5. Many ancient greek plays ended with a plot device called deus exmachina. The jesus resurrection story patterns this device quite well.
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You don't really think you're fooling anyone here do you, DOC?
 
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zooterkin said:
If I told you that Thomas Jefferson appeared to me, would you believe me? What is it about Paul saying it that makes it more believable?
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I'd be more likely to believe you if you (and many others) traveled all over the world risking your life and occasionally being beaten for that belief.
 
Mojo said:
It's in the New Testament, so in DOC's universe it is "Evidence for why we know the New Testament writers told the truth."
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Actually I don't believe I've said something is evidence strictly because it is in the NT.
 
DOC said:
zooterkin said:
If I told you that Thomas Jefferson appeared to me, would you believe me? What is it about Paul saying it that makes it more believable?
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I'd be more likely to believe you if you (and many others) traveled all over the world risking your life and occasionally being beaten for that belief.
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Where is your evidence that zooterkin has not done this?

Where is your evidence that Paul did?
 
DOC said:
Actually I don't believe I've said something is evidence strictly because it is in the NT.
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What's this then? A ham sandwich?


DOC said:
John Jones said:
We have no known eyewitness testimonies of the life of christ.
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Actually Paul the author of much of the NT stated Jesus appeared to him:

1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Cr 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Cr 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Cr 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Cr 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Cr 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
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I can easily quote about a thousand other examples if you need them.
 
DOC said:
I'd be more likely to believe you if you (and many others) traveled all over the world risking your life and occasionally being beaten for that belief.
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So you'd be more likely to believe all the Deists, Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Jains, Buddhists, Jews, Pagans, Rastafarians, etc. etc. etc., who have traveled all over the world, been beaten and killed for their beliefs?

I never realized you were a Universalist DOC. :D

Oh...almost forgot, do all the Atheists and Agnostics who died for their beliefs count too?


GB
 
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Gandalfs Beard said:
So you'd be more likely to believe all the Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Jains, Buddhists, Jews, Pagans, Rastafarians, etc. etc. etc., who have traveled all over the world, been beaten and killed for their beliefs?
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Yes but how many of those died for a deity they actually knew (like the apostles) and walked and talked with for 3 years.
 
DOC said:
Yes but how many of those died for a deity they actually knew (like the apostles) and walked and talked with for 3 years.
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1) You have no more or less evidence that they didn't, than you do for the alleged Apostles.
2) Circular Reasoning.
3) Special Pleading.

GB
 
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DOC said:
Gandalfs Beard said:
So you'd be more likely to believe all the Hindus, Sikhs, Muslims, Jains, Buddhists, Jews, Pagans, Rastafarians, etc. etc. etc., who have traveled all over the world, been beaten and killed for their beliefs?
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Yes but how many of those died for a deity they actually knew (like the apostles) and walked and talked with for 3 years.
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The answer is the same for all religions, DOC, including Christianity. Zero.

These mythical apostles of yours didn't even exist, much less did they know any deities.
 
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Gandalfs Beard said:
Every single point has been demonstrated to be evidence of Belief, not evidence of Truth, or not evidence at all.
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So the fact that the tomb of Christ (whom Roman historian/senator Tacitus reported received the supreme penalty from Pontius Pilate) was empty and the famous Jesus' body has never been found is not some evidence to you that the NT writers were telling the truth.
 
DOC said:
So the fact that the tomb of Christ (whom Roman historian/senator Tacitus reported received the supreme penalty from Pontius Pilate) was empty and the famous Jesus' body has never been found is not some evidence to you that the NT writers were telling the truth.
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It's not a fact at all, DOC.

You know it's not and everyone else knows it's not.

Yet you talk about it as though it is.

Only one description fits this behaviour, DOC.
 
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