Cancer rise in Fallujah

[Sword_Of_Truth]

It's not a conspiracy. There's no need for anyone to cook the books or manipulate data.

The United States Military goes into some pretty dark corners of the world. Places that aren't known for their 5-star employee health insurance plans.

After the shooting is over, these politically motivated researchers come in with their first world technology and medical know-how and surprise, surprise, they start finding cancer, birth defects... basically whatever they look for, they find.

In all likelyhood, there has been no rise in actual cancer rates. Just the reported cancer rates. And when the US military moves on, and the politically motivated researchers follow them, the reported rates of cancer will probably drop again.

 

[bit_pattern]

It's not a conspiracy. There's no need for anyone to cook the books or manipulate data.

The United States Military goes into some pretty dark corners of the world. Places that aren't known for their 5-star employee health insurance plans.

After the shooting is over, these politically motivated researchers come in with their first world technology and medical know-how and surprise, surprise, they start finding cancer, birth defects... basically whatever they look for, they find.

LMAO! Nah, no conspiracy here... Just a bunch of politically motivated researchers CONSPIRING against America!

In all likelyhood, there has been no rise in actual cancer rates. Just the reported cancer rates. And when the US military moves on, and the politically motivated researchers follow them, the reported rates of cancer will probably drop again.

Yes, Fallujah was ALWAYS a hotbed of deformities, it's only since these politically motivated (but NOT conspiring!) medical professionals started REPORTING them that any "problem" has arisen!

Seriously, this is almost as stupid as Virus blaming it on people who root their cousins. Talk about grasping at straws.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Talk about grasping at straws.

You mean like you've been doing with depleted uranium?

 

[bit_pattern]

You mean like you've been doing with depleted uranium?

O Rly? Link?

In the meantime, do have any explanation that is an alternative to DU? I mean OTHER than simply denying any problems actually exist?

 

[Virus]

LMAO! Nah, no conspiracy here... Just a bunch of politically motivated researchers CONSPIRING against America!

Bit_pattern, we know for a fact that the researchers are members of left-wing extremist organizations that support the insurgency.

 

[bit_pattern]

Bit_pattern, we know for a fact that the researchers are members of left-wing extremist organizations that support the insurgency.

Oh, do we now? Source? Is this the same as the way that WE know that all of these problems are caused by Iraqi's bumping uglies with their cousins? Or are you just making **** up off the top of your head again?

You would have made a great climate denier, the way you denigrate anybody who dares to have an ideologically impure opinion, even if they are being published in respected publications such as the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health.

 

[bit_pattern]

O Rly? Link?

In the meantime, do have any explanation that is an alternative to DU? I mean OTHER than simply denying any problems actually exist?

 

[Mycroft]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=536&pictureid=3610[/qimg]

If your theory is DU, it's up to you to prove it.

Take a look at how Randi deals with claims of the paranormal, UFO's or Bigfoot sometime. It's not up to skeptics to find evidence there are no ghosts, etc. It's up to believers to prove there are.

 

[bit_pattern]

If your theory is DU, it's up to you to prove it.
.

Yeah, but it's not. As I said, find me a quote where I have blamed it on DU, you'll spend a long time looking. I even started a thread asking for alternative explanations because at this point the Du debate has become quite redundant. I can agree that the evidence against DU is strong, so let's move on from that debate and start asking; if not DU then what? Unless you want to go down the kool-aid path with Virus and Sword_of_truth by denying that there even IS a problem then at some point you have to stop arguing about DU and start asking wtf IS causing these problems?

 

[Pardalis]

It's not that everybody is focusing on DU for the sake of showing there can be no other cause. Other causes have been suggested and accepted as possibilities.

And it just so happens that the people who push for the DU explanation are anti-war proponents. Must be a coincidence...

If it is caused by DU, why isn't there the same kinds of cancers in other towns where there have been battles? Why only Fallujah? DU has been used elsewhere hasn't it?

 

[Mycroft]

Yeah, but it's not. As I said, find me a quote where I have blamed it on DU, you'll spend a long time looking. I even started a thread asking for alternative explanations because at this point the Du debate has become quite redundant. I can agree that the evidence against DU is strong, so let's move on from that debate and start asking; if not DU then what? Unless you want to go down the kool-aid path with Virus and Sword_of_truth by denying that there even IS a problem then at some point you have to stop arguing about DU and start asking wtf IS causing these problems?

I think it's worthwhile to take a look at the people making the report and to use that information in deciding just how actionable the information is.

Seriously, google is your friend here. There are three people, one of which is a nobody and the other two seem to make their living trotting around the world raising alarm bells about how awful the West. Science with a political agenda isn't real science.

 

[bit_pattern]

I think it's worthwhile to take a look at the people making the report and to use that information in deciding just how actionable the information is.

Seriously, google is your friend here. There are three people, one of which is a nobody and the other two seem to make their living trotting around the world raising alarm bells about how awful the West. Science with a political agenda isn't real science.

Whoops! You lose on that point so its baaaack to the conspiracy theories. How predictable, you DID drink the kool-aid!

Science with a political agenda isn't real science

You'd make a fine climate denier with tht sort of attitude!

 

[Mycroft]

Whoops! You lose on that point so its baaaack to the conspiracy theories. How predictable, you DID drink the kool-aid!

So...you deny that political activists make reports and write stories that either fabricate or exaggerate information to support their politics?

You'd make a fine climate denier with tht sort of attitude!

Politically motivated "science" that sets out to prove climate change is not real is a good example of bad science. Science can certainly have political implications, but if it doesn't start from a position of objectivity by objective people, it's unreliable.

 

[Virus]

Oh, do we now? Source? Is this the same as the way that WE know that all of these problems are caused by Iraqi's bumping uglies with their cousins? Or are you just making **** up off the top of your head again?

You would have made a great climate denier, the way you denigrate anybody who dares to have an ideologically impure opinion, even if they are being published in respected publications such as the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health.

Told you before. Malak Hamdan is a member of Women Solidarity for Unified and Independent Iraq.
http://solidarityiraq.blogspot.com/2009/03/malak-hamdan-at-10th-session-of-un_16.html

we support our people’s struggle
to end the Anglo – American occupation
and its new phase; the neo colonial rule,
a struggle we regard as a basic right, endorsed
by the UN general Assembly Resolution
33/24 December 1978;
“…reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle
of peoples for independence, territorial
integrity, national unity and liberation from
colonial domination and foreign occupation
by all means available, particularly armed
struggle”.

Supports the insurgency.

She's on the advisory board of this crackpot organization:
http://www.brusselstribunal.org/index.htm

Who are about as balanced as a see-saw with a hippo sitting on one end.

They have a page of pro-terrorist and pro-Baath articles:
http://www.brusselstribunal.org/index.htm

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Unless you want to go down the kool-aid path with Virus and Sword_of_truth by denying that there even IS a problem

I'm sorry... but could you please point out to me where I denied the existence of a problem?

 

[Mycroft]

Told you before. Malak Hamdan is a member of Women Solidarity for Unified and Independent Iraq.
http://solidarityiraq.blogspot.com/2009/03/malak-hamdan-at-10th-session-of-un_16.html



Supports the insurgency.

She's on the advisory board of this crackpot organization:
http://www.brusselstribunal.org/index.htm

Who are about as balanced as a see-saw with a hippo sitting on one end.

They have a page of pro-terrorist and pro-Baath articles:
http://www.brusselstribunal.org/index.htm

Did you see their article on the The Mavi Marmara incident?

Even for eyes burnt witnessing human suffering, there is something shocking, something impossible, about watching Israeli soldiers, armed and in gas masks, fast-roping from helicopters onto an aid ship filled with civilians — journalists, parliamentarians, human rights activists, mothers, doctors — headed to Gaza to break the inhuman siege that keeps 1.5 million people somewhere between life and death.

Oh my Gawd!!! 1.5 million people in Gaza are in a coma!!

That site really is about as hysterical as they come.

 

[bit_pattern]

So...you deny that political activists make reports and write stories that either fabricate or exaggerate information to support their politics?

I deny that this report has been exaggerated or fabricated, until somebody presents evidence to the contrary, and the fact that all you guys seem to have is character assassination speaks volumes imo

Politically motivated "science" that sets out to prove climate change is not real is a good example of bad science. Science can certainly have political implications, but if it doesn't start from a position of objectivity by objective people, it's unreliable.

So do you have any evidence to show that this paper was anything other than objective, or is this just an exercise in smear-by-association? If anything it is you guys, in your attempts to downplay the issue because you don't like the implications thereof, that reek of objectivity problems. You are the one's politicising this report, not the authors, whose report goes to great lengths to dispassionately spell out the shortcomings of their survey in the manner you would expect from a staid, objective researcher.

 

[Mycroft]

I deny that this report has been exaggerated or fabricated, until somebody presents evidence to the contrary, and the fact that all you guys seem to have is character assassination speaks volumes imo

Volumes of what? If there's a real issue going on in Faluja then I certainly want the Iraqi government to get on it, but even if I were living there and drinking the water, I still wouldn't see this article as evidence that there was a real problem.

So do you have any evidence to show that this paper was anything other than objective...

Yeah, but you don't want to hear it. The evidence is it's vanity publisher and the less-than-reliable background of its writers. It's kind of like when Stanton Friedman comes up with another paper about flying saucers, I don't jump up and think we've found ET. I consider the source.

 

[bit_pattern]

Volumes of what? If there's a real issue going on in Faluja then I certainly want the Iraqi government to get on it, but even if I were living there and drinking the water, I still wouldn't see this article as evidence that there was a real problem.




Yeah, but you don't want to hear it. The evidence is it's vanity publisher and the less-than-reliable background of its writers. It's kind of like when Stanton Friedman comes up with another paper about flying saucers, I don't jump up and think we've found ET. I consider the source.

Yup, character assassination and smear is all that you have, certainly nothing that calls into question the conclusions of the survey, I thought as much.

And what exactly makes IJERPH a "vanity publisher"? The fact that they publish conclusions and authors the political implications of which you happen not to like?

ETA: You also might want to have a look at the other thread on Fallujah I started and watch the report, there are very real allegations that the reason the Iraqi government isn't "getting on it" is due to pressure from the American forces. Make of that what you will, but it suggests that the only people willing to even acknowledge the problem are independent researchers.

 

[WildCat]

Yup, character assassination and smear is all that you have, certainly nothing that calls into question the conclusions of the survey, I thought as much.

Many objections have been made in this thread concerning the methodology in the paper.

And what exactly makes IJERPH a "vanity publisher"? The fact that they publish conclusions and authors the political implications of which you happen not to like?

No, the fact that they'll publish anything so long as the check clears.