Teabagger Calls Bloomberg "Judenrat"

[Thunder]

Parky,

The comment isn't offensive because the guy didn't deserve to be called a Judenrat. It's offensive because "Judenrat" is a racial slur, and racial slurs are offensive.

wrong...again.

Judenrat is not a racial slur. you didn't even know what the dang word meant 2 hours ago!!!

It refers to Jews who collaborated with the Nazis, to keep the Jews under control in the ghettos. It now means a sell-out, a traitor, a self-hating Jew who betrays the Jews to our enemies.

calling Bloomberg a "Judenrat" because he believes in the Constitutional right of Muslim-Americans to build a mosque where they have private property, is not being a "sell-out" or a "self-hating Jew".

that is why its offensive.

 

[Chaos]

i think its fare to assume, as this guy is such an ignorant bigot, he did assume "Judenrat" meant "Jewish rat".

No, I think he meant it (in a rare display of rudimentary historical knowledge by a bigot) in its original meaning, with Americans playing the role of the Jews, and Muslims the role of the Nazis.

 

[Mycroft]

wrong...again.

Judenrat is not a racial slur. you didn't even know what the dang word meant 2 hours ago!!!

It refers to Jews who collaborated with the Nazis, to keep the Jews under control in the ghettos. It now means a sell-out, a traitor, a self-hating Jew who betrays the Jews to our enemies.

calling Bloomberg a "Judenrat" because he believes in the Constitutional right of Muslim-Americans to build a mosque where they have private property, is not being a "sell-out" or a "self-hating Jew".

that is why its offensive.

Parky, you claim it's not a racial slur then you describe three different ways in which it's a racial slur. Okay, it doesn't mean "Jewish-rat" but it does mean "Jewish-collaborator with Nazi's", "Jewish traitor" and/or "Jewish sell-out" or "self-hating Jew". All of which are racial slurs worse than "Jewish-rat".

So...under what circumstances do you think the term is appropriate to use?

 

[Thunder]

So...under what circumstances do you think the term is appropriate to use?

when do YOU think its appropriate to use?

that's what I want to know.

btw, still waiting for proof that I blaim the Jews for anti-Semitism.

 

[Darth Rotor]

no, Mycroft.

it has NOTHING to do with rats.

geeeeez.

the Vienna city hall is called the "Rathaus".

And New York's (hell, insert any major city for New York) city hall ought to be called the Rat House. It has nothing to do with Bloomberg, however.

Did you ever see the movie Willard? Ben?

 

[Thunder]

And New York's (hell, insert any major city for New York) city hall ought to be called the Rat House.

ok

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Parky, you claim it's not a racial slur then you describe three different ways in which it's a racial slur. Okay, it doesn't mean "Jewish-rat" but it does mean "Jewish-collaborator with Nazi's", "Jewish traitor" and/or "Jewish sell-out" or "self-hating Jew". All of which are racial slurs worse than "Jewish-rat".

So...under what circumstances do you think the term is appropriate to use?

I believe it's entirely appropriate to use the term when referring to Jews who collaborated with Nazis during WWII. This use may still be derogatory, but those collaborators earned that. Any other use is most definitely derogatory. I can't imagine any other way in which it wouldn't be derogatory.

Hence, the reference to Mayor Bloomberg (a Jew, mind you) as a "Judenrat" is racially derogatory. There is no way this can be construed as anything other than racially derogatory. Bloomberg was not accused of being merely a "collaborator" or a "minion" or even "shill". Rather, the term used was racially charged (by it's very nature).


Obvious bigot is obvious.

 

[Thunder]

i don't consider "Judenrat" to be a racial slur, as it is meant to accuse a Jew of certain actions.

one would not call ALL Jews "Judenrats". it simply would not fit.

unless one thought ALL Jews were self-hating and collaborated with the enemies of the Jews.

 

[Mycroft]

I believe it's entirely appropriate to use the term when referring to Jews who collaborated with Nazis during WWII. This use may still be derogatory, but those collaborators earned that. Any other use is most definitely derogatory. I can't imagine any other way in which it wouldn't be derogatory.

Hence, the reference to Mayor Bloomberg (a Jew, mind you) as a "Judenrat" is racially derogatory. There is no way this can be construed as anything other than racially derogatory. Bloomberg was not accused of being merely a "collaborator" or a "minion" or even "shill". Rather, the term used was racially charged (by it's very nature).


Obvious bigot is obvious.

I agree.

 

[Mycroft]

i don't consider "Judenrat" to be a racial slur, as it is meant to accuse a Jew of certain actions.

one would not call ALL Jews "Judenrats". it simply would not fit.

unless one thought ALL Jews were self-hating and collaborated with the enemies of the Jews.

So if I said some, but not all, black people are "(n-word)s", that wouldn't be a racial slur? How about if I said some, but not all, Hispanics are "wetbacks"?

It's a racial slur if it targets a person because of their race. Exempting some people of that race as "the good kind" doesn't make it less racist.

 

[Thunder]

It's a racial slur if it targets a person because of their race. Exempting some people of that race as "the good kind" doesn't make it less racist.

fine. have it your way.

but it is still dispecable to call Mayor Bloomberg a "Judenrat".

not just cause its a "slur", but because his actions in regards to the GZ Mosque do not deserve such a slur in any way.

frankly, one could honestly accuse this Tea-Bagger of anti-Semitism.

 

[Mycroft]

fine. have it your way.

but it is still dispecable to call Mayor Bloomberg a "Judenrat".

Still? Has anyone argued it wasn't despicable?

not just cause its a "slur", but because his actions in regards to the GZ Mosque do not deserve such a slur in any way.

frankly, one could honestly accuse this Tea-Bagger of anti-Semitism.

(facepalm)

Ya think?

 

[Chaos]

Parky, you claim it's not a racial slur then you describe three different ways in which it's a racial slur. Okay, it doesn't mean "Jewish-rat" but it does mean "Jewish-collaborator with Nazi's", "Jewish traitor" and/or "Jewish sell-out" or "self-hating Jew". All of which are racial slurs worse than "Jewish-rat".

So...under what circumstances do you think the term is appropriate to use?

In Thunder´s defense, it appears he meant to say that "Judenrat" was not a racial slur in the same sense that "Quisling" isn´t a racial slur against Norwegians.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Would Uncle Tom be a racial slur? The analogy to Judenrat is very similar though the circumstances are different. By consistent standars I imagine either both being or neither being racial slur.

 

[Thunder]

Would Uncle Tom be a racial slur? The analogy to Judenrat is very similar though the circumstances are different. By consistent standars I imagine either both being or neither being racial slur.

finally, an analogy that makes sense.

 

[Thunder]

Still? Has anyone argued it wasn't despicable?

well, by constantly asking me "when do you think the use of the word would be appropriate?", I figured you were suggesting that calling Bloomberg a Judenrat fit the bill.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Would Uncle Tom be a racial slur? The analogy to Judenrat is very similar though the circumstances are different. By consistent standars I imagine either both being or neither being racial slur.

Actually, I was under the impression that being referred to as "Uncle Tom" (unless your name is "Tom" and you're being addressed by your nephews/nieces) is a racial slur...


From Wikipedia:

Uncle Tom is a term for a black person who behaves in a subservient manner to white people.

That would make it not just a slur, but a racial slur.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Exactly my point. An Uncle Tom is a traitor to his or her ethnicity (in this case African American) who sells out to the oppressor (slave owners). The Judenrat is a traitor to his or her ethnicity (German Jews) who sells out to the oppressor (Nazis). The circumstances are different, slavery versus genocide, but the set up is similar. I would generally think either are racial slurs even though they have historical context and likely would get used by that specific ethnicity. One could argue about the difference between African American slaves and German Jewish citizens as being an actual ethnicity, culture or religious affiliation. Those are blurry debatable lines in my opinion.

I thought people calling Michael Steele an Uncle Tom was racist. By that standard, I feel this is too.

 

[BobTheDonkey]

Exactly my point. An Uncle Tom is a traitor to his or her ethnicity (in this case African American) who sells out to the oppressor (slave owners). The Judenrat is a traitor to his or her ethnicity (German Jews) who sells out to the oppressor (Nazis). The circumstances are different, slavery versus genocide, but the set up is similar. I would generally think either are racial slurs even though they have historical context and likely would get used by that specific ethnicity. One could argue about the difference between African American slaves and German Jewish citizens as being an actual ethnicity, culture or religious affiliation. Those are blurry debatable lines in my opinion.

I thought people calling Michael Steele an Uncle Tom was racist. By that standard, I feel this is too.

Ah hah! So that was just a fancy lead-in to a Tu Quoque fallacy. Nicely performed, and yet still has that fallacy after-taste.

 

[The Fallen Serpent]

Tu quoque is not always a fallacy. My point is that either they both are racist are neither are racist if the same standards are applied. If someone disagrees these are both non-racists, I think we can rationally disagree. It is definitely in the grey area. If someone can claim one slur is racist and the other is not, I am willing to listen to the logic behind it and reexamine my thoughts. Mostly I was bringing up the Uncle Tom to show to Thunder why people would think Judenrat is a racial slur. Uncle Tom usually is considered so and I felt they were equivalent constructions.