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The "Nakba" Myth

Virus said:
In Hindu culture widows are considered unclean and so widows are kicked out of the home by male relatives and forced to beg on the streets. Society considers them scum. There are millions of widows on the street in India because of this superstition.
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and what has that to do with green movement?
 
The Fool said:
jesus christ on a pogo stick....stop telling us how you can do it and just %^&$*&^ do it ok?

here is the list..

American
Canadian
British
Australian

stop telling us how it can be done and demonstrate it please....
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They have pretty much the same level of freedoms and civils rights (which I repeat is my criteria), so it's difficult to compare them. I would say unfortunately the US is slightly inferior (again, according to my criteria) because of the death penalty and it seems still discriminatory towards non believers and mostly doesn't allow for same sex marriage (so is Great Britain and Australia I believe), but the Canadians and Australians have had their fair share of discrimination too (their treatment of the aborigenese and the language problems). So it's difficult to put on a scale, they kind of level off and they all are slowly moving towards the same goals for freedom.

bigjelmapro' map is a good indicator.

So before you ask me again, my answer is : they level off, with the US slightly trailing behind.

Satisfied?
 
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a_unique_person said:
Arabs wanted their land, their home and their right to self determination.
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Huh? They were offered self determination. And under the partition plan no one would have lose either land or home.

The Arabs wanted to prevent Jewish self determination. By starting a war.
 
Doctor Evil said:
Huh? They were offered self determination. And under the partition plan no one would have lose either land or home.

The Arabs wanted to prevent Jewish self determination. By starting a war.
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they wanted to prevent Jewish self determination on the land they see as theirs.
 
DC said:
they wanted to prevent Jewish self determination on the land they see as theirs.
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Is this supposed to justify their actions? Some Jews see the whole land as theirs. Would you accept it if they had started the war (in 1947) to take it all?
 
Doctor Evil said:
Is this supposed to justify their actions? Some Jews see the whole land as theirs. Would you accept it if they had started the war (in 1947) to take it all?
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no, but its that what nations usually do when someone starts creating their own independent nation on land that others see as theirs.
 
DC said:
no, but its that what nations usually do when someone starts creating their own independent nation on land that others see as theirs.
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Than how do you account for the rejection of the partition plan? This was done along the line of demographics. Also, one has to own land in order to claim it as theirs.
 
DC said:
they wanted to prevent Jewish self determination on the land they see as theirs.
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No. They wanted to destroy any and all self-determination by the Jewish people. There was no middle ground for the Arab league and the Palestinian leadership.
 
DC said:
they wanted to prevent Jewish self determination on the land they see as theirs.
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Of course, by this logic, the crusaders were 100% justified, since they were merely an attempt by Christians to stop the Muslims from ruling over an area -- the holy Land where Jesus lived -- which they saw as theirs. Al Quaeda is justified as well: they are merely trying to get the infidels out of land they see as theirs, too.

In fact, by this logic, every agressive war whatever is perfectly justified, since they all start when someone thinks they have a right to something they see as theirs. To give the obvious example, Hitler invaded Poland because he saw the east as Germany's Lebensraum. The Nazis saw the east as theirs.

"Yes, but I started the war because I think it's mine" is saying nothing more than "yes, I started the war". In fact it is, at least implicitly, an admission by you that the Arabs did indeed start the war so as to destroy the Jewish state. (Not that there is any need for such admissions -- the Arabs openly and reperatedly said just that at the time, and many still do.)

Why are such weak excuses for genocidal agression considered acceptable when it's the Arabs who are using them against the Jews -- and only in that case?
 
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Arabs owned much more land in Palestine than the Jews did. And yet, the UN gave the Jews a much higher percentage of Palestine than the percentage of the land that they owned.

The Arabs felt this was highly unjust.

Were the Arabs right to see this as being unjust? Perhaps they were.

Its been said many times, that it looked like the Arabs of Palestine were being forced to somehow be burdened for a crime that was not their doing, the Holocaust.

Was the idea of a sovereign, strong, and independent Jewish state the answer to the Jew's problems? Yes.

Was it a mistake to create such a state in a way that burdened folks who had nothing to do with the Jew's suffering? Yes.

In hindsight, I think a Jewish state should have been created in Europe.

But now, a Jewish state exists in Israel, its been there for 65 years, and the Arabs should deal with this fact.
 
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bigjelmapro said:
Than how do you account for the rejection of the partition plan? This was done along the line of demographics. Also, one has to own land in order to claim it as theirs.
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would you support splitting up your country among the line of demographics?
i wonder why you then are so against the right to return.
 
Skeptic said:
Of course, by this logic, the crusaders were 100% justified, since they were merely an attempt by Christians to stop the Muslims from ruling over an area -- the holy Land where Jesus lived -- which they saw as theirs.

In fact, by this logic, every agressive war whatever is perfectly justified, since they all start when someone thinks they have a right to something they see as theirs. To give the obvious example, Hitler invaded Poland because he saw the east as Germany's Lebensraum. The Nazis saw it as theirs.

"Yes, but I started the war because I think it's mine" is saying nothing more than "yes, I started the war". In fact it is, at least implicitly, an admission by you that the Arabs did indeed start the war so as to destroy the Jewish state. (Not that there is any need for such admissions -- the Arabs openly and reperatedly said just that at the time, and many still do.)

Why are such weak excuses for genocidal agression considered acceptable when it's the Arabs who are using them against the Jews -- and only in that case?
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i never said it was justified. I did not even say the land belonged to them.
 
bigjelmapro said:
No. They wanted to destroy any and all self-determination by the Jewish people. There was no middle ground for the Arab league and the Palestinian leadership.
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there were offers to create Israel somewhere else? not on the land the Palestinians regarded theirs?
 
Originally Posted by Skeptic
In fact, by this logic, every agressive war whatever is perfectly justified, since they all start when someone thinks they have a right to something they see as theirs. To give the obvious example, Hitler invaded Poland because he saw the east as Germany's Lebensraum. The Nazis saw it as theirs.

Very poor analogy. The Arabs did not declare war on Israel for aggressive or irridentilist reasons. They felt they were coming to the aid of the Palestinian-Arabs.
 
Pardalis said:
Palestinians will never have their state if they keep being stuck in the past.

Onwards and upwards. Forget about the "disaster" already and move on.
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That's some funny **** right there, Pardalis. How in the world do you think did Jewish People get their current State in the first place? :confused::confused::confused:
 
Virus said:
Who's fault is it they're occupied again? If Egypt and Jordan didn't start a war against Israel they'd still have those territories.

Arabs wanted war.
Arabs started war.
Arabs lost the war.
Arab's fault.
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Operation Focus.

was the opening airstrike by Israel at the start of the Six-Day War of 1967.
This was the airstrike committed without any warning on a country who were not at war or expecting war.



You must mean this war !!they started!! i presume.

Your propaganda unfortunately doesn't match history.
But you Zionist apologists don't actually seem to care about reality.
 
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