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Insane Clown Posse's song about 'Miracles' called worst song ever

3bodyproblem said:
Wow, here we go again. Still comparing fictional characters who clearly indicate they are entertainers with real people.

Do you even realize Homer Simpson and Peter Griffin are fictional characters? Are you going to start comparing them to real people too? I hope so, there's no end to the entertainment value of people who can't separate reality from fiction.

"Prove to me Homer Simpson is pretending to be a horrible father" :rolleyes:

"How is Seth Green not promoting ignorance to children by continuing to show people babies and dogs can talk" :rolleyes:
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YOU compared ICP to real life people, ie global warming!
YOU agreed that fictional characters can be serious, ie about the Miracles song being meaningful!

Do you have evidence that ICP are intentionally dumb? As said above, put up or shut up.

Let's say they are just fictional characters. (Seeing how they present themselves to fans I'm not fully convinced of that nor have you proven it.) How does that make them less ridiculous? An author can be stupid and write a novel where he/she thinks his/her characters are smart, but appear as morons to reasonable people. Where's your proof ICP is intentionally bad and anti-intellectual?

Fictional does not equate with intentional. The creator of the fictional characters can be stupid and when he/she expresses intelligence it could be unintentional to make them stupid thereby showing the stupidity of the creator.

PS You do realize there is no doubt Simpson and Griffin are fictional characters that were created to be dumb? If you want to say the same about ICP offer proof. Proof would makes your comparison actually a comparison. Until then its just a bad analogy.

bozman said:
Wait a minute, ICP are fictional characters? :confused:
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That never was really proved by 3body in the way he is describing.
 
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bozman said:
Wait a minute, ICP are fictional characters? :confused:
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They are, you are probably confused because they are being held to the same standard as real people. That tends to generate confusion.

Like i said, I love the Simpsons but I find it disturbing because Homer Simpson promotes excessive drinking and child abuse. When will it end?How can we protect our kids from this influence? How can we possibly differentiate what happens on TV from reality?
 
Questioninggeller said:
YOU agreed that fictional characters can be serious, ie about the Miracles song being meaningful!
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Again, just wow.

You obviously have no reference point to start from, probably not having listening to much of their work.

When a band that usually sings about chopping up the Boogie Man and being the illegitimate child of a witch and a one eyed monster, steps outside the box and talks about giraffes, that's pretty deep.

You really don't know what's relative do you? ALL OF THEIR WORK IS "MEANINGLESS", Miracles comes about as you are going to see a bunch of paint painting insane clowns get to "meaningful".

It's like Freddy Crougar saying it's time to go to the clinic and get a blood test done, possibly a check-up.
 
technoextreme said:
You do realize they actually physically threatened people who actually criticized that song right? There end of discussion they are *********** idiots.
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Do you realize pro wrestlers threaten to kill and maim other people on a regular basis? They are *********** idiots, no doubt. But it's entertainment, just like watching a horror movie. You do know that horror movies are fake right? :boggled:
 
Questioninggeller said:
Do you have evidence that ICP are intentionally dumb? As said above, put up or shut up.
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lmfao, PROVE HOMER SIMPSON IS INTENTIONALLY DUMB!

:popcorn1:


Then Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, The Road Runner, Doctor Evil and Magneto.

:dl:

This is hilarious, you are trying to prove (or demanding proof of) the motivations of fictional characters or their creators. ISP, Insane Skeptic Posse.
 
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bozman said:
And while I hate to defend them, since when do people in music have a duty to promote intelligent or rational thinking? I think people have a right to say pretty much whatever they want, no matter how stupid or retarded it is. Just like we in turn have the right to mock them for it.
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Sorry I missed this before. You are indeed correct.

They promote themselves as Insane Clowns. I'm not sure how you can make your intentions any more well known than to wear clown make-up and tell people at every chance they are entertainers?
 
3bodyproblem said:
Again, just wow.

You obviously have no reference point to start from, probably not having listening to much of their work.

When a band that usually sings about chopping up the Boogie Man and being the illegitimate child of a witch and a one eyed monster, steps outside the box and talks about giraffes, that's pretty deep.

You really don't know what's relative do you? ALL OF THEIR WORK IS "MEANINGLESS", Miracles comes about as you are going to see a bunch of paint painting insane clowns get to "meaningful".

It's like Freddy Crougar saying it's time to go to the clinic and get a blood test done, possibly a check-up.
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More arming waving and putting words in people's mouths.

My point is simple. ICP are stupid.
You claim: ICP are stupid intentionally (pretending to be stupid).
My (and others) response: Prove it.


3bodyproblem said:
lmfao, PROVE HOMER SIMPSON IS INTENTIONALLY DUMB!
:popcorn1:
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Easy to prove. You can listen to the cast/creator commentary on the Simpsons DVD or read many interviews (and even books) with the creators. Here's just one example:

Matt Groening, who created the Simpsons, said "Homer is so much fun to write for because he's this dumb guy and the writers take pride in writing the dumbest jokes for him ever. I don't remember if its a Homer line or maybe his friend Barney, 'I don't know if you're up there, but if you are Superman please save me'." This was said in an NPR interview called "Matt Groening, Grabbing for Laughs" about the creation of the show and characters. (The whole interview has more information about the character development.) It demonstrates the intention of the creator for Homer and Homer's words to be "dumb."

Can you find quotes from the people involved in ICP where they seriously and pointedly call Violent J or Shaggy2Dope "dumb" (or show they actually understand the stupidity behind ICP)?
:popcorn1

3bodyproblem said:
Then Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, The Road Runner, Doctor Evil and Magneto.
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If you are claiming Bugs Bunny or the Road Runner are, by and large, dumb then you should provide proof for that. There's many articles about Bugs creator, Friz Freleng, commenting about the character and development. He didn't use "dumb" to describe Bugs, but clever and "altruistic". (Unfortunately, most articles are behind pay walls due to the age of the topic.) Here's one from Time that discusses the development and characteristics of Bugs, Daffy Duck and the Road Runner. It is an article about life of Chuck Jones, a director, who worked with those cartoons at their early stages.

I never made any claims about these cartoons. YOU brought them up as a smokescreen to avoid proving your claims.

PEOPLE ARE ASKING YOU TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS WITH EVIDENCE. Labeling ICP fictional doesn't prove the stupid is intentional.


Minor point, but instances like this video (Violent J in face paint speaking to the "Juggalos" for nearly an hour) don't seem to be fictional characters, especially to their fans. He is telling his fans about the origins of the band and his troubles in a very non-fictional manner. Maybe you want to assert the drug problems, record company problems, working at a gas station, description of record sales, distribution problems, criticism from fans, or so on Violent J is talking about are fictional because he has clown paint on? Is this hour long "seminar" for fans not to be taken seriously just because they are dressed as clowns?
ICP Seminar Part 2

ICP Seminar Part 3

ICP Seminar Part 4


One more time:
luchog said:
No one is saying they have a duty to promote education or rational thinking. The debate is between people who take their anti-intellectualism at face value, based on reams of clear evidence and the actions of the overwhelming majority of their fanbase; and people who claim that their anti-intellectualism is satirical and they're actually promoting education in some weird, twisted, completely invisible way. Duty doesn't enter into it.
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TubbaBlubba said:
Like Ayn Rand?
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No comment on Ayn Rand. Just pointing out the flaw in 3body's logic:

Questioninggeller said:
Let's say they are just fictional characters. (Seeing how they present themselves to fans I'm not fully convinced of that nor have you proven it.) How does that make them less ridiculous? An author can be stupid and write a novel where he/she thinks his/her characters are smart, but appear as morons to reasonable people. Where's your proof ICP is intentionally bad and anti-intellectual?

Fictional does not equate with intentional. The creator of the fictional characters can be stupid and when he/she expresses intelligence it could be unintentional to make them stupid thereby showing the stupidity of the creator.
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3body, do you want to address this point? You quoted some words nearby this statement, but didn't deny nor offer proof that defends ICP.
 
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Questioninggeller said:
3body, do you want to address this point? You quoted some words nearby this statement, but didn't deny nor offer proof that defends ICP.
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They are crazy mother *********** INSANE CLOWNS.

Do you know what insane means?

a. mentally deranged; crazy; of unsound mind
b. (as collective noun; preceded by the) the insane
2. (Psychology) characteristic of a person of unsound mind an insane stare
3. irresponsible; very foolish; stupid

You can't get any more intentional than that. They have taken on the persona of Insane Clowns. Just to drive home that point they wear wicked clown face paint.

Do you want proof they are Insane too? Maybe you should pick up an album and listen to a few songs. :rolleyes:
 
3bodyproblem said:
They are crazy mother *********** INSANE CLOWNS.

Do you know what insane means?

a. mentally deranged; crazy; of unsound mind
b. (as collective noun; preceded by the) the insane
2. (Psychology) characteristic of a person of unsound mind an insane stare
3. irresponsible; very foolish; stupid

You can't get any more intentional than that. They have taken on the persona of Insane Clowns. Just to drive home that point they wear wicked clown face paint.

Do you want proof they are Insane too? Maybe you should pick up an album and listen to a few songs. :rolleyes:
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You want to ignore the "Miracles" song lyrics, their background, their actions, their interviews, their defense of the "Miracles" song, and simply point to the name of the group from 1989. If that's the best you can do to prove that a song that came out 20 years later in 2009 is intentionally stupid, fine.

If the group's name convinces you of ignoring all that clear evidence, good for you. It clearly doesn't convince the rest of us to ignore evidence.
 
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Questioninggeller said:
Can you find quotes from the people involved in ICP where they seriously and pointedly call Violent J or Shaggy2Dope "dumb" (or show they actually understand the stupidity behind ICP)?
:popcorn1

PEOPLE ARE ASKING YOU TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS WITH EVIDENCE. Labeling ICP fictional doesn't prove the stupid is intentional.
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Holy FSM, if two guys dressing up like clowns and clearly saying they are insane isn't proof of being INTENTIONALLY STUPID I don't know what is.

No seriously, I can't think of a better way. I don't think you could come up with a better way of being intentionally stupid. Except possibly by demanding proof they are being intentionally stupid. :rolleyes:

"So you are insane clowns?"

"*********** right, we're crazy mutha *********** insane clowns brother, chop you up in little pieces, piss down your neck and spit Faygo Redpop on your corpse. We're immortal clowns"

"Are you kidding? I can't tell if you're being serious, tell me about yourself Violent J. What's your story?"

"Torus, born in 1775 I'm like 300 and somethin, but I'm still alive
I used to hang with the original, billy the kid
You probably think I'm only playin but, I did
My daddy's were a 2 headed freak show
Mamma a fortune tella, Azmerella Zella
Anyway they had sex on a Oija board
And I was born the next day
Violent J"

"I see. I'm still having trouble telling if you are real or if this is all some fictional sorta character you are playing"

"I'ma wicked clown boy, and I'm insane"

"Insane, really, I suppose that's a result of your upbringing in the Dark Carnival. How do we know you are insane?"

I'm always finding bodies when I'm mowing the lawn
Drag em in the house, throw em in the oven
Wicked clown lovin that dead body gloven
Tastes like chicken finger lickin deep fried
I ate a dead body, but don't tell, I lied
I just ate my first dead body last week
Still gots the finger nail caught in my teeth

"Well cannibalism isn't insane per se"

Oh, you'll never guess what's up
My mucking head blew up
My chins in an old man's backyard
I gotta sneak threw his yard
To find the fothermucker
And he's gotta pitbull dog
And it's sitting on my chin like a frog on a log

"Getting closer, still that's not really insane"

Im scary like Michael Jaskson up close
I like diggin up dead bodies
look at me Im gross
my name's Violent J but you can call me syphillis
gonorrhea the clap cause i infected this rap
you wanna know if i could ever kill somebody
well thats like askin Charlie Manson if he's ever been in jail

"Are all your songs like this?"

"Yep, except Miracles, that's pretty deep, we don't kill nothing in that one"

:rolleyes:
 
Questioninggeller said:
You want to ignore the "Miracles" song lyrics, their background, their actions, their interviews, their defense of the "Miracles" song, and simply point to the name of the group from 1989. If that's the best you can do to prove that a song that came out 20 years later in 2009 is intentionally stupid, fine.

If the group's name convinces you of ignoring all that clear evidence, good for you. It clearly doesn't convince the rest of us to ignore evidence.
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That's pretty scary, you don't understand that 2 guys dressed up and calling themselves insane clowns aren't joking? :confused:
 
They aren't joking. Anti-learning is a common theme in this country. Being intelligent is considered a bad thing by a portion of this country. No evidence to back this up just ongoing personal experience.
 
And if they are joking what the hell is the punchline?-If you believe what we're saying you're a moron...?
 
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vwgub said:
ICP are real people not fictional. You've even said you met them.
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OMG I met Mickey Mouse and Sleeping Beauty too! I suppose that makes them real! Disney World is a magical place. :cool:

I said I met Joseph Bruce and Joseph Utsler.
 
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