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The "Nakba" Myth

Mycroft said:
Hmmm. I don't think it necessarily follows that just because you say some things are better than other that you should then be able to rank everything of that type in order of greatness. For example, if I say some paintings are better than others, that doesn't necessarily mean I will be able to go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art and rank every painting there, yet my statement is still true and non-controversial.

I can think of dozens of measures, but wouldn't you agree that woman's rights, productivity, gay and minority rights, or freedom of the press are at least some of the many objective standards societies can be measured against one another?
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but the people are not talking about paintings they are talking about cultures...

Thunder types "some cultures are inferior"? to which Pardalis replies "absolutely".

so I ask Pardalus which ones.....which are the inferior culture. He starts backpeddling under cover of your diversion....

if you want to talk about productivity, gay and minority rights or freedom of the press please go ahead....but lets not confuse that with bigot speak about "inferior" cultures.
 
Pardalis said:
Could you answer my question?
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no, its irrelevant. I think Turkish coffee is far superior to Korean coffee...so what......I don't care what criteria you decide to use....rank order some cultures or shut your mouth about "inferior" cultures....simple.
 
The Fool said:
if you want to talk about productivity, gay and minority rights or freedom of the press please go ahead...
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That's exactly what we're talking about.

You seem to have a mental block, political correctness makes you unwilling to face up to reality, that we can evaluate cultures by a set of moral standards.

If you were unprepared to have a serious conversation about a serious topic, maybe you shouldn't have jumped into this one. Talk about coffee somewhere else.
 
The Fool said:
Thunder types "some cultures are inferior"? to which Pardalis replies "absolutely".

so I ask Pardalus which ones.....which are the inferior culture. He starts backpeddling under cover of your diversion....
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I didn't backpeddle, I further explained my opinion. That's called having a discussion.

But I understand it is easier for you to stick to a more simplistic idea of what "inferior" means, it's easier to want to stick to a strawman than engage what I actually explained about my view. Having a discussion is so intellectually hard nowadays, it's much more expedient to just attack a strawman and deny anything that is being said and call it "irrelevant".
 
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The Fool said:
no, its irrelevant. I think Turkish coffee is far superior to Korean coffee...so what......I don't care what criteria you decide to use....rank order some cultures or shut your mouth about "inferior" cultures....simple.
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Western culture is best. We all know it, just some people feel guilty admitting it. Not me.
 
Virus said:
Western culture is best. We all know it, just some people feel guilty admitting it. Not me.
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That's an interesting question. If all cultures merge over the next 500 years we wont have an "end date" for any of the current cultures. Therefore won't the Chinese and Egyptians say "Well our culture lasted for longer on its own for three or four millenium. You Westeners only climbed down from trees 2500 years ago". ( I'm being silly as this is a silly discussion)
 
Pardalis said:
I didn't backpeddle, I further explained my opinion. That's called having a discussion.

But I understand it is easier for you to stick to a more simplistic idea of what "inferior" means, it's easier to want to stick to a strawman than engage what I actually explained about my view. Having a discussion is so intellectually hard nowadays, it's much more expedient to just attack a strawman and deny anything that is being said and call it "irrelevant".
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you have a new definition of "inferior" you want to propose?

you appear to be able to judge which cultures are inferior so I invite you to do this...

American
Canadian
British
Australian

tell us which is the "inferior" culture. can you? "absolutely" you say....well go on then.
 
The Fool said:
you have a new definition of "inferior" you want to propose?

you appear to be able to judge which cultures are inferior so I invite you to do this...

American
Canadian
British
Australian

tell us which is the "inferior" culture. can you? "absolutely" you say....well go on then.
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Don't have to rank them. They're all western culture which is the best.
 
Virus said:
Don't have to rank them. They're all western culture which is the best.
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LOL the best? The best in Climate destruction.

we should more take care of our own culture, the way our culture is heading, is a death-road.

Your culture is so superior, we are financing it by spending the money from future generations and we are wasting resources for needles things, resources that could have been used by future generations to make great inventions etc.
 
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DC said:
LOL the best? The best in Climate destruction.
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Name a culture with a more prominent Green movement. The Green movement became mainstream first in the West.

we should more take care of our own culture, the way our culture is heading, is a death-road.
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Says you. We're actually living in the best time in history.

DC said:
Your culture is so superior, we are financing it by spending the money from future generations and we are wasting resources for needles things, resources that could have been used by future generations to make great inventions etc.
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That doesn't actually make any sense. How can money belong to people that don't exist? But whatever you're talking about, name one that does better.
 
Virus said:
Name a culture with a more prominent Green movement. The Green movement became mainstream first in the West.



Says you. We're actually living in the best time in history.



That doesn't actually make any sense. How can money belong to people that don't exist? But whatever you're talking about, name one that does better.
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Hindu and Buddhist Culture.

We are spending money that we canot pay back in our livetime, thus its up to the next generation to pay it back.
 
Christian British culture is clearly superior to Jewish Israeli culture.

just sayin'.

hell...even American Jewish culture is superior to the Israelis.
 
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The Fool said:
you have a new definition of "inferior" you want to propose?
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I already told you, you don't want to listen.

I judge cultures and societies mainly on moral grounds, meaning which ones cause the least unnecessary harm to their people, and how much freedom they allow.

I'm not talking about art, I'm not talking about coffee, I'm not talking about gastronomy or anything else. I'm talking about individual freedoms, and unnecessary harm.

If a culture allows very few civil rights and freedoms, then I judge it as inferior to the ones that offer more civil freedoms, on that basis alone. Or if you don't like the word 'inferior', you could say they are less evolved culturally, and need to work on it.

If you can't understand that, that's your problem.

Now I ask again, can you recognize that some cultures are less free than others?
 
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Israel represents a regression of Jewish culture. They have regressed in respect to their commitment to freedom, tolerance, secularism, seperation of Church and State, and respect for diversity. One can find that the Jews who remain in the Diaspora are usually the ones who maintain these commitments, which is a major reason why they have not moved to Israel.
 
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