Merged Obama enters GZ Mosque debate

[Praktik]

Zakaria pointed out the obvious yesterday:

- Al Qaeda bombed Sufi mosques and has killed hundreds (thousands in total perhaps) of Sufi muslims since Sufi Islam is tantamount to heresy for them.

- Since Sufi Islam and America share the same enemy, and have had blood spilled by the same enemy, we should try to work together as much as possible.

- the mosque in Lower Manhattan is a Sufi mosque.

All pretty basic points, but I'd like to see some of the people in this thread who wonder how "appropriate" it is for a mosque to be located near ground zero argue against these points - cause the only way I think it could be done with a straight face is if the individual understands no difference between Sufi and Sunni and Shia and for whom all of Islam is one religion.

I for one, wonder why all these Christians are wearing magic underwear and worshipping golden tablets, after all, if the mormons do it don't they all?

 

[Praktik]

Another observation from GPS yesterday: there's an old Synagogue in Beirut and in a country with a long history of conflict with Israel, with blood spilled at the hands of Jews - this old synagogue has been rebuilt and had the blessing not only of the surrounding inhabitants, but Hezbollah as well. I thought it was an interesting way for Zakaria to close the broadcast, with a quote from Hezbollah talking about how their struggle was against the state of Israel, not all Jews.

So, I guess that means that Hezbollah is a few stages more advanced intellectually than the anti-mosque demonstrators on the streets of NYC, eh?

 

[Thunder]

So, I guess that means that Hezbollah is a few stages more advanced intellectually than the anti-mosque demonstrators on the streets of NYC, eh?

err....umm...Hezbollah launches missiles at civilian populations.

FYI

 

[Praktik]

err....umm...Hezbollah launches missiles at civilian populations.

FYI

Yes, but even backwards extremists in Lebanon can differentiate their enemies (the Israeli state) from the larger religion (Judaism) in a way the NYC anti-mosque demonstrators can't (Sufi islam from extremist Sunni islam and/or Islam as a whole)

 

[Biscuit]

Since when has an idea, a people, or a religion ever scared an American? I thought we were stronger, braver, and more courageous than to try to suppress ideas we find foreign.

 

[leftysergeant]

Since when has an idea, a people, or a religion ever scared an American?

When Big Brother says to be afraid, it is your patriotic duty to be very afraid. The rich people who own the government and the radio stations want you to be afraid of that mosque. Get in line.

 

[thaiboxerken]

I'm seeing interviews with opponents of the Mosque on various news shows. They seem to be parroting the same, ridiculous argument. "This is insensitive to victims and families of 9/11..." They never seem to get any further than that. Why don't the show hosts grill them a bit and ask them WHY they feel this way.

 

[Thunder]

Why don't the show hosts grill them a bit and ask them WHY they feel this way.

we all know WHY.

9-11 was done by Muslims. Mosques are Muslim holy sites.

Therefore, this Mosque will be holy for those who support 9-11.

 

[Biscuit]

I'm seeing interviews with opponents of the Mosque on various news shows. They seem to be parroting the same, ridiculous argument. "This is insensitive to victims and families of 9/11..." They never seem to get any further than that. Why don't the show hosts grill them a bit and ask them WHY they feel this way.

If this was actually a mosque, actually being built on the site where the twin towers stood I could see how it would be upsetting to people as a knee jerk reaction. Hell I would even think that was bit much.

However, this simply isn't the case. Why can't there be a Muslim community center 2 blocks from where the twin towers stood? A community center run by people who preach peace and understanding in a chaotic and sometimes violent world. It seems we can not have enough places like this run by these types of people whatever their religion may be. How can such places be insensitive to the relatives of victims?

It seems a lot of people are wrapping themselves in anger and directing it in the wrong places.

 

[Thunder]

If this was actually a mosque, actually being built on the site where the twin towers stood I could see how it would be upsetting to people as a knee jerk reaction. Hell I would even think that was bit much.

i would not support a mosque, or any religious institution, being built at GZ.

but two blocks away, moderate Muslims, preaching tolerance and inter-faith relations?

why would I have a problem.

 

[Thunder]

NY GOP Governor debate on local tv right now.

First candidate says "the Mosque will be a magnet for extremists. just like the hamburg mosque with the 9-11 terrorists. I have fought islamic extremism my whole life. they will use it to case the down town area. it will get money from Iran."

what has happened to us???????

 

[Cicero]

I don't agree with her.
I'm surprised you need to ask people on this thread that question, since she doesn't seem to have provided a new opinion. She is merely a new source for an old opinion.

She has indeed provided a new opinion from a new source that is not presented by the lame stream media. That is the opinion of a Muslim who challenges the "wisdom" of the location for the mosque.

 

[leftysergeant]

She has indeed provided a new opinion from a new source that is not presented by the lame stream media. That is the opinion of a Muslim who challenges the "wisdom" of the location for the mosque.

She seems to have gotten a lot of her information from Faux News.

Epic FAIL.

 

[Cicero]

She seems to have gotten a lot of her information from Faux News.

Epic FAIL.

She fails because she thinks for herself and doesn't parrot your talking points? Naturally.

 

[marksman]

Thunder,

Which candidate is this? I assume it's not Cuomo. Is it Lazio or Paladino?

 

[Thunder]

Thunder,

Which candidate is this? I assume it's not Cuomo. Is it Lazio or Paladino?

I'm sorry, it was the GOP debate for folks who wanna run against Schumer.

 

[leftysergeant]

She fails because she thinks for herself and doesn't parrot your talking points? Naturally.

Like I said, she used some Faux News verbage. If that was her source, "thinking" has little to do with what came out of her mouth.

 

[Praktik]

She has indeed provided a new opinion from a new source that is not presented by the lame stream media. That is the opinion of a Muslim who challenges the "wisdom" of the location for the mosque.

I really do find that strange. It's really akin to someone protesting the erection of a Protestant church next to a middle school because of the Catholic molestation scandal.

To me, it seems that one has to have no understanding of the differences between sufi and sunni and shia - in other words, a tendency to generalize about Islam as a whole - to seriously propose that the presence of a Sufi mosque near GZ is "insensitive" - it nearly requires it.

I watched the clip. And while this woman is muslim, her first statement: "how does building a mosque in a place where muslims murdered so many other Americans...would... create any kind of respect" just gave it away...

I was prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt, but it just goes to show that anyone can generalize, even muslims about muslims..

And even muslims can make crappy arguments

"Mayor Bloomberg, and other bleeding heart, white liberals like him..."

Ok, well looks like you can find the kind of vapid, gutter analysis that pervades cable news fairly easy, in nearly every demographic. As a muslim critic of the mosque, isn't there any better out there?

I require something more erudite.

 

[johnny karate]

She has indeed provided a new opinion from a new source that is not presented by the lame stream media. That is the opinion of a Muslim who challenges the "wisdom" of the location for the mosque.

You use the same fallacious arguments in the gay marriage threads; presenting supposedly credible sources who agree with a point of view as opposed to arguing the validity of that point of view.

Why is it you think this is a cogent method of argumentation?

 

[BeAChooser]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/newly_released_ground_zero_imam_tUWczuKcOs9ERhZ9PO3fZM

Feisal Abdul Rauf -- the imam behind plans to build an Islamic cultural center and mosque two blocks from the site of the World Trade Center attacks -- was quoted Monday as making comments in 2005 in which he says that the “United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al Qaeda.”

The audio recording, taken from a July 2005 speech that Rauf gave at the University of South Australia in Adelaide, was posted in snippets Monday by conservative blogger and commentator Pamela Geller on her AtlasShrugs.com blog.

On the audiotape, which begins mid-sentence, Rauf can be heard saying: "We tend to forget, in the West, that the United States has more Muslim blood on its hands than al Qaeda has on its hands of innocent non-Muslims.” He then continues, “You may remember that the U.S.-led sanctions against Iraq led to the death of over half a million Iraqi children. This has been documented by the United Nations."

The claim that America has the blood of a half million Iraqi children on its hands is sheer GARBAGE. Nor has the US killed more innocent Muslims than the number of innocent Muslim and non-Muslims that al-Qaeda, Saddam's regime and holdouts from Saddam's regime have killed. Rauf's statement was nothing less than anti-American NONSENSE. And until he publically retracts those claims, I'm certainly not willing to trust his motives in wanting to build a Mosque anywhere near the 9/11 site. Also, his statement that the US "political structure is Sharia Law compliant" and that Shariah law is "not far from what we read in the Declaration of Independence" is also nothing but empty dishonest rhetoric ... certainly where women and non-Muslims are concerned. He should acknowledge that fact before we proceed.