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Holocaust deniers, explain this.

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kageki said:
This isn't a history class you know and you are perfectly capable of reading about it yourself. You can start with Hitler's own book which he describes in his own words.

So why did the Japanese attack the US?

In regards to Jews here is an interesting quote from the Jehovah's Witness, Declaration of Facts:



Similar sentiments are expressed everywhere and by the very words of Hitler. Here is more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism

Who were sent to the camps? Read the articles in the OP. Political prisoners and POWs amongst others.

You can also start here about one the camps mentioned, Buchenwald:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buchenwald_concentration_camp

Were all of them, that is Jews, sent to the camps? They weren't.
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Ok so back to the Jehovah's Witness quote, you are saying because Jews are "big business" and control things and use it to oppress others that this is why they were rounded up and put in camps to work as prisoners/

I'm still not getting what you see as the problem of the Jews in the country. I mean, why not just take all their businesses and money away from them and forbid them from owning businesses? Why the need to put them in camps and starve them to death?

And what about the kids? Did they own businesses and oppress people?

What I'd like you to do is to make it clear why the Jews were considered a threat and why you understand the reason for putting them in camps. A lot of us here don't.

I'll give you an example "Japanese were interred during WW2 based on the idea that they were spies"

So fill in the blank here "Jews were interred during WW2 based on the idea that they were.........."


Also as far as the lampshades go it is irrelevant. These kind of little details are a reasonable assumption from finding "swaths of human flesh" etc. Needless to say duirng this period of unrestrained human testing people went wild with experimentation on humans.

I don't think human lampshades is a legitimate across the board representation.
 
truethat said:
Ok so back to the Jehovah's Witness quote, you are saying because Jews are "big business" and control things and use it to oppress others that this is why they were rounded up and put in camps to work as prisoners/

I'm still not getting what you see as the problem of the Jews in the country. I mean, why not just take all their businesses and money away from them and forbid them from owning businesses? Why the need to put them in camps and starve them to death?

And what about the kids? Did they own businesses and oppress people?

What I'd like you to do is to make it clear why the Jews were considered a threat and why you understand the reason for putting them in camps. A lot of us here don't.

I'll give you an example "Japanese were interred during WW2 based on the idea that they were spies"

So fill in the blank here "Jews were interred during WW2 based on the idea that they were.........."


Also as far as the lampshades go it is irrelevant. These kind of little details are a reasonable assumption from finding "swaths of human flesh" etc. Needless to say duirng this period of unrestrained human testing people went wild with experimentation on humans.

I don't think human lampshades is a legitimate across the board representation.
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So you're saying Japanese-American children were spies?

Right assumptions, insinuations, accusations, suggestions, rumors. Where does this get anywhere?

They didn't all die and it wasn't just Jews. They also talked about deportations.

Where is the evidence for gas chambers?
 
kageki said:
There is no evidence for skin lampshades.

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/dachauscrapbook/DachauTrials/IlseKoch.html
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Your site did it again. So here we have denial on the lampshades (which I tend to agree with and think it easily was an urban legend of fear that developed in the camp)

However your own debunker page says this"

Three pieces of tattooed skin and a shrunken head were exhibited in the courtroom at Dachau as evidence of the ghastly crimes committed by the staff at Buchenwald. The photograph above shows Dr. Kurte Sitte, on the far right, who is identifying the three pieces of tattooed skin, found in the pathology department at Buchenwald. This same exhibit was shown at the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal on December 13, 1945 as evidence of Crimes against Humanity.

According to the forensic report prepared for the trial, the three pieces of skin were determined to be human. Joseph Halow, a court reporter for some of the other Dachau trials, claims that he saw a lamp shade that was part of the evidence at the proceedings against Ilse Koch, but if this lamp shade was tested, the results were not included in the forensic report. No one else, that I know of, ever mentioned seeing a lamp shade in the Dachau courtroom.
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So it's ok to to cut off human skin and preserve it, and also to make shrunken heads, you just draw the line at making it into a lampshade?

See this is what I see as a pattern with you. You seem to have this sort of insane sense of "legitimacy" about the whole thing, to the point that you are very accepting of other things that would make a decent human being freak out.

Examples:

You draw the line at the gas chamber, you take issue with the idea that a gas chamber was used. But mass graves of people shot to death you are fine with, starvation and torture you are cool with that. Just no Gas Chambers

You draw the line at the lampshade, but you have no problem with someone who has shrunken heads and skin swatches.

You draw the line at Jews only being victims and demand justice for all victims but then ignore the fact that they WERE victims and 11 million people were killed in these camps?


Care to clarify this a bit more?
 
truethat said:
Your site did it again. So here we have denial on the lampshades (which I tend to agree with and think it easily was an urban legend of fear that developed in the camp)

However your own debunker page says this"



So it's ok to to cut off human skin and preserve it, and also to make shrunken heads, you just draw the line at making it into a lampshade?

See this is what I see as a pattern with you. You seem to have this sort of insane sense of "legitimacy" about the whole thing, to the point that you are very accepting of other things that would make a decent human being freak out.

Examples:

You draw the line at the gas chamber, you take issue with the idea that a gas chamber was used. But mass graves of people shot to death you are fine with, starvation and torture you are cool with that. Just no Gas Chambers

You draw the line at the lampshade, but you have no problem with someone who has shrunken heads and skin swatches.

You draw the line at Jews only being victims and demand justice for all victims but then ignore the fact that they WERE victims and 11 million people were killed in these camps?


Care to clarify this a bit more?
Click to expand...

It was found in the Pathology department.

Do you have proof it was Nazis that made those shrunken heads?
 
kageki said:
So you're saying Japanese-American children were spies?

Right assumptions, insinuations, accusations, suggestions, rumors. Where does this get anywhere?

They didn't all die and it wasn't just Jews. They also talked about deportations.

Where is the evidence for gas chambers?
Click to expand...


No I don't think Japanese kids were spies. I disagree with the whole thing. And I always teach about this a bit in my classes because a lot of students are unaware of it. So I think it is a good point.

However, I'm not talking about agreeing with the Americans that did this but having a reason to see why they did it.

In my understanding they thought the Japanese were spies. So they rounded them up.

In my understanding they wanted to exterminate Jews and less desirables so they rounded them up.

You are saying this is not why they were rounded up so why WERE they? That's what I'm asking you to explain.
 
kageki said:
It was found in the Pathology department.

Do you have proof it was Nazis that made those shrunken heads?
Click to expand...

The human skin wasn't made by her? This is your point? Ok that's a fair argument. Care to address the other points.
 
kageki said:
It was found in the Pathology department.

Do you have proof it was Nazis that made those shrunken heads?
Click to expand...

Never mind the skulls, they were purportly from South America.
What about the skin?

The pathologist was American.

COPY OF DOCUMENT 3423-PS
SEVENTH MEDICAL LABORATORY
APO 403, c/o PM, NEW YORK, N.Y.
Section of Pathology
25 May 1945
SUBJECT: Identification of Tattooed Skin Hides
TO: COMMANDING GENERAL, Third U.S. Army
ATTN: JUDGE ADVOCATE GENERAL
1. There were submitted to this laboratory section for examination three tanned pieces of skin by Lt. Col. Givin from Buchenwald Camp with office record designation of Case 81 T.J.A.
2. The description follows:
GROSS: Specimen consists of three pieces of skin labeled A.B.C.
PIECE A: Measures 13x13cm., is transparent and shows a woman's head in the center and a sailor with an anchor near the margin.
PIECE B: Measures 14x13cm., is transparent and is a tattoo of several anchors resting on an indefinite black mass. To the right of this mass is a man's head.
PIECE C: Is truncated, measures 44cm. At the base. The upper portion is 30 cm. Long and the sides measure 46 cm. The skin is transparent and shows two nipples in the upper area. These are 16 cm. Apart. From the nipple level to the umbilicus is 23 « cm. A large bird, with a wingspread measuring 28 cm., is present in the center of the skin, upper part. A black dragon, with fire coming from the mouth, measures 28 cm. in length and is present in the center of the skin. To the left of the dragon is a man in a coat of mail, with a sword being apparently stuck in the dragon. Man is approximately 22 cm. in length.
MICROSCOPIC: The tissue consists of bundles of collagen showing occasional epithelial and sweat gland remnants. Granular black pigment granules are seen between some of the bundles.
3. Based on the findings in paragraph 2, all three specimens are tattooed human skin.
For the Commanding Officer,
(Signed by Ruben Cares)
Ruben Cares
Major M.C., Chief of pathology
 
truethat said:
No I don't think Japanese kids were spies. I disagree with the whole thing. And I always teach about this a bit in my classes because a lot of students are unaware of it. So I think it is a good point.

However, I'm not talking about agreeing with the Americans that did this but having a reason to see why they did it.

In my understanding they thought the Japanese were spies. So they rounded them up.

In my understanding they wanted to exterminate Jews and less desirables so they rounded them up.

You are saying this is not why they were rounded up so why WERE they? That's what I'm asking you to explain.
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Then you should know better to make an emotional plea using kids even when you lambasted another poster for doing the same thing.

It seems like some were rounded up to be deported and others used for labor.

You do realize that many Germans, even actual Nazis, apparently had no idea that the extermination of Jews was going on? You're not really trying to understand.
 
truethat said:
The human skin wasn't made by her? This is your point? Ok that's a fair argument. Care to address the other points.
Click to expand...

What's to address or even take you seriously when you didn't even know those shrunken heads were essentially fake?

I honestly do not see the point in these line of questions. Just to start, I simply like to know if gas chambers were true. Then see what else is true.
 
kageki said:
Then you should know better to make an emotional plea using kids even when you lambasted another poster for doing the same thing.

It seems like some were rounded up to be deported and others used for labor.

You do realize that many Germans, even actual Nazis, apparently had no idea that the extermination of Jews was going on? You're not really trying to understand.
Click to expand...

Of course I understand that. That's why I've been careful to distinguish between camps and as you just see above I stated it about the lampshades.

But I don't quite see the logic in what you are saying. If 11 million people died (lets just play devils advocate and chop that number in half) say 5 million, then how many people were in the camps total?

You see? Not everyone died. So why would you round up basically the entire city of NY and lock them up? Hitler was not a stupid man.

Think of what happened in Katrina in the Super Dome? How many people were there?

In the Japanese internment over 7000 people were locked up. Do the numbers in your head.

It is inconceivable that they intended these people to survive if they locked them up without enough resources to survive and then kept sending more and more and more people?
 
truethat said:
Of course I understand that. That's why I've been careful to distinguish between camps and as you just see above I stated it about the lampshades.

But I don't quite see the logic in what you are saying. If 11 million people died (lets just play devils advocate and chop that number in half) say 5 million, then how many people were in the camps total?

You see? Not everyone died. So why would you round up basically the entire city of NY and lock them up? Hitler was not a stupid man.

Think of what happened in Katrina in the Super Dome? How many people were there?

In the Japanese internment over 7000 people were locked up. Do the numbers in your head.

It is inconceivable that they intended these people to survive if they locked them up without enough resources to survive and then kept sending more and more and more people?
Click to expand...

Did you know there was a zoo at Buchenwald and that they showed movies to inmates amongst other things? Why did they do that if they just wanted to kill them? Who was in those camps?

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/buchenwald/Zoo.html
 
kageki said:
Did you know there was a zoo at Buchenwald and that they showed movies to inmates amongst other things? Why did they do that if they just wanted to kill them? Who was in those camps?

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/buchenwald/Zoo.html
Click to expand...

Again you are doing it. We have agreed that the camp leaders may or may not have understood what was going on. They didn't recruit people to the camp. By your own words you have said that the people running the camps might not have understood what was going on.


But lets go back to the numbers shall we.


8 million people live in NYC. So if 6 million people died lets say the equivalent of rounding up everyone who lives in NYC and sending them to camps.

If this was an aim to just "house" people then it was a very poorly thought out plan. Think of the disaster at the Superdome 2300 people were trapped in the Superdome without resources, look at the results.

Anyone who decided to "house' people in camps would have understood that great expense and problems that would occur. Just feces is a huge problem. So why would they do this the way they did if the intention was just to house them in the camps during the war?

Just explain your opinion on that.
 
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