9-11 Presentation at NMSR, May 19 2010

[excaza]

I don't know. What do they do?

You tell me, use your "physics." It should make no difference, correct?

 

[BigAl]

I asked first. Please explain, or link to an explanation, of how rubble can crush an intact building.

Gravity and momentum.

Here's a video of falling water destroying stuff, (2 minutes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w4tvAGOEpo

 

[DGM]

Um, no. Each grain of sand now has its own mass where it was formerly part of the mass of the boulder. That mass is affected by whatever work you're imparting to it. It is affected by air friction. It is affected by the random movements of neighbouring grains of sand. It is affected by the natural resistance of the piano. Therefore, grains of sand descending onto a piano do not do the same damage, even from the same height, or in the same amount of time, as a boulder does.

Speaking of "violating the laws of physics".

 

[ergo]

You tell me, use your "physics." It should make no difference, correct?

It's your example. Explain what happens in it and how it applies.

 

[ergo]

Um, no. Each grain of sand now has its own mass where it was formerly part of the mass of the boulder. That mass is affected by whatever work you're imparting to it. It is affected by air friction. It is affected by the random movements of neighbouring grains of sand. It is affected by the natural resistance of the piano. Therefore, grains of sand descending onto a piano do not do the same damage, even from the same height, or in the same amount of time, as a boulder does.

Speaking of "violating the laws of physics".

What part of what I explain do you think is incorrect?

 

[DGM]

What part of what I explain do you think is incorrect?

The "bolder" is a falling mass of "particles". You go wrong when you mention "time".

 

[ergo]

The "bolder" is a falling mass of "particles". You go wrong when you mention "time".

Yes, in particle physics. You guys are hilarious.

I didn't bring up the impact time. Myriad did.

 

[ergo]

Gravity and momentum.

Here's a video of falling water destroying stuff, (2 minutes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w4tvAGOEpo

How does this video explain the destruction of a 90-storey steel and concrete building in 13 seconds or less by rubble falling 12 feet?

Actually, never mind that. How do gravity and momentum explain this?

 

[DGM]

Yes, in particle physics. You guys are hilarious.

I didn't bring up the impact time. Myriad did.

Is this not your words?

Um, no. Each grain of sand now has its own mass where it was formerly part of the mass of the boulder. That mass is affected by whatever work you're imparting to it. It is affected by air friction. It is affected by the random movements of neighbouring grains of sand. It is affected by the natural resistance of the piano. Therefore, grains of sand descending onto a piano do not do the same damage, even from the same height, or in the same amount of time, as a boulder does.

The statement is wrong!


Your arguing physics but you don't want to be exact? You don't understand the problem with this?

 

[bill smith]

The "bolder" is a falling mass of "particles". You go wrong when you mention "time".

Particles and small rubble behave as a liquid does DGM. It runs over and around obstacles applying far less pressure than a solid mass would. Look at the videos and the masses of rubble being shed at the moment of impact. It spills off the lower part. I'm sure I can find a Chandler video that illustrates it beautifully if you have any doubts.

 

[DGM]

Particles and small rubble behave as a liquid does DGM. It runs over and around obstacles applying far less pressure than a solid mass would. Look at the videos and the masses of rubble being shed at the moment of impact. It spills off the lower part. I'm sure I can find a Chandler video that illustrates it beautifully if you have any doubts.

Time!

 

[ergo]

You don't understand the problem with this?

No. And neither, apparently, do you.

 

[DGM]

No. And neither, apparently, do you.

Well actually I do. That's why I don't claim the collapse (as described by NIST) violates the laws of physics.

 

[ergo]

Well actually I do.

Then please explain in plain language your objections to what I wrote instead of merely stating your opinion.

I should say, in complete sentences.

 

[BigAl]

How does this video explain the destruction of a 90-storey steel and concrete building in 13 seconds or less by rubble falling 12 feet?

Actually, never mind that. How do gravity and momentum explain this?

"The linear momentum of a system of particles is the vector sum of the momenta of all the individual objects in the system"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum​

Take a physics course or work through these excellent 10 minute segments on basic physics and Newton's laws.

http://www.khanacademy.org/#Physics​

You show zero interest in actually learning anything.

 

[DGM]

Then please explain in plain language your objections to what I wrote instead of merely stating your opinion.

I should say, in complete sentences.

Please have your parents forward tuition money to me.




Your claim is the collapse (as described by NIST) "violates the laws of physics".

Your explanation boils down to "because I think so".


Now you want me to spend my time giving you a physics lesson?

Are you insane? Your claim, Support it!

ETA: Bet you can't!

 

[pgimeno]

I asked first. Please explain, or link to an explanation, of how rubble can crush an intact building.

You asked for an example. I gave you some examples, see post #128.

ETA:

How does this video explain the destruction of a 90-storey steel and concrete building in 13 seconds or less by rubble falling 12 feet?

12 feet? Rubble fell all the way down.

 

[ergo]

Your claim is the collapse (as described by NIST) "violates the laws of physics".

Changing the topic? I have never said this in this thread. I am asking you to elaborate on what part of this:

Each grain of sand now has its own mass where it was formerly part of the mass of the boulder. That mass is affected by whatever work you're imparting to it. It is affected by air friction. It is affected by the random movements of neighbouring grains of sand. It is affected by the natural resistance of the piano. Therefore, grains of sand descending onto a piano do not do the same damage, even from the same height, or in the same amount of time, as a boulder does.

you don't understand or find objectionable. Please use complete sentences.

 

[ergo]

12 feet? Rubble fell all the way down.

"All the way down" where?

 

[BigAl]

Changing the topic? I have never said this in this thread. I am asking you to elaborate on what part of this:

Originally Posted by ergo
Each grain of sand now has its own mass where it was formerly part of the mass of the boulder. That mass is affected by whatever work you're imparting to it. It is affected by air friction. It is affected by the random movements of neighbouring grains of sand. It is affected by the natural resistance of the piano. Therefore, grains of sand descending onto a piano do not do the same damage, even from the same height, or in the same amount of time, as a boulder does.

you don't understand or find objectionable. Please use complete sentences.

A complete sentence:

"The linear momentum of a system of particles is the vector sum of the momenta of all the individual objects in the system"

http://en.wikipedia.orgwiki/Momentum