Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Supernaut]

A word about Rudy Guede's criminality ...

Does anyone really believe that the thefts and break-ins for which Guede was caught red-handed (which includes being in possession of the laptop and phone stolen from the Perugian lawyer's office) were the only ones he committed?

Of course they weren't - it's quite obvious that for him to get busted several times in a single month he must have been profligate, however inept he might have been.

Guede had no income, had rent and bills to pay, booze and drugs to buy. There can be little doubt that by late 2007 he was an habitual thief - probably stealing things (bags and 'phones etc') in public places and committing other burglaries he hasn't been linked to.

I can't imagine why more effort wasn't made by the Italian cops to connect him to other reported break-ins and thefts committed in the weeks and months before he killed Meredith.

 

[Dan O.]

A consultant for RS's defense, Bruno Pellero, said the signal was weak inside the apartment. Yet:

1. Neither RS or AK ever mentioned getting poor cell reception at his apartment.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Is there any evidence presented that every single point within Raffaele's apartment has good reception?

2. RS's father called him on his cell, not his land line.

You have your facts wrong. Go back and do some real research.

3. There was no activity at all on the land line on Nov. 1 or 2 (btw, I think most people with cell phones keep their land lines too and not because of poor cell reception).

Most people had landlines long before they acquired a cell phone. Raffaele undoubtably already had his cell phone when he moved into the apartment and had the landline installed or activated. Raffaele took most of his calls on his cell phone even when he was known to be at home. But on Nov. 1, his father did call the landline.

4. RS received many calls during the night indicating that he was probably in bed at the time, not at the entrance.

This is a ground floor apartment so radio signals are going to be stronger the higher above the floor the cell phone is held. Above the bed is going to have better reception than say in the corner on the floor.

 

[LondonJohn]

I think you're giving people way too much credit for their powers of observation. I had the fortunate/unfortunate experience of being charged with A & B on a police officer which carries with it a 2 year sentence. I had many sleepless nights, migraine headaches, and much confusion over what actually happened and the police report.

The assault was merely removing a can of mace from a police officer's hand. Since acting defensively would look better than acting offensively, it was important to determine what happened first. That was more difficult than it seemed. Five witnesses said that the officer grabbed my wrist. Only the police officer that was macing me and myself knew I grabbed his wrist. The point is ALL five witnesses got it wrong.

The cops writing the report got the names of the officers reversed. Only by correlating everything to the "wrist holding" incident did the truth emerge. One eye witness even thought the cop was holding a gun instead of a can of mace. I think he did draw his gun after I threw his mace across the street because I heard a click as a gun being cocked might make. I was blinded by mace so I didn't see anything else...

Don't take ANYTHING the cops or witnesses say as the absolute truth. CORRELATE! Find out what's consistent in all the testimony and that's a fact. You will probably find that there aren't too many dependable and relevant facts.

I absolutely agree that it might not be easy for the police to definitively determine that some of Knox's clothing or footwear mysteriously went missing after the murder. However, the corollary of this is that the police (and by extension the prosecution) were not able to produce any evidence of missing clothing/footwear. And the prosecution's claim was that Knox and Sollecito were clothed when they participated in the stabbing of Meredith, and therefore almost certainly would have got their clothing (and shoes if they were wearing any) contaminated with blood. The prosecution then go on to claim that Knox and Sollecito must have disposed of this bloody clothing (and possibly footwear), but they have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever to support this claim.

So my point is this: the prosecution's claims regarding Knox/Sollecito's clothing would have had weight and substance if they had been able to place a credible witness before the court who could testify to missing clothing. But the fact that they couldn't back up their claims of clothing disposal - while it doesn't necessarily mean that clothing didn't go missing - certainly leads to more than reasonable doubt in this area as well.

 

[LondonJohn]

Of the hundreds of Americans that are arrested in other countries each year how many have been freed due to international pressure?

The UN has not condemned these convictions as a violation of human rights. Neither has Amnesty Internation or any other human rights NGO. The State Department won't get involved and Amanda's family should be glad they won't. The absolutely best they could hope for would be an extradition which would put her in a much worse (federal) prison than where she already is.

The only time I can recall this happening is apartheid in South Africa and that took longer to dismantle than Amanda's entire sentence.

Has there ever been a case where international pressure led to the overturning of a conviction in a murder case?

I agree with you here. I don't think international pressure can or should be brought to bear in this instance. Sovereign democratic nations have the right to an independent judiciary, on whom no pressure can be brought to bear either by the executive/legislature of their own country or by any branch of government of any other country.

It's completely up to the Italian judiciary (within the overarching judicial system of the European Court to which Italy is a signatory) to try this case from beginning to end, without any outside interference. All that the US State Department should be doing (via the US Consulate in Rome) is monitoring the trial to ensure that one of their citizens is being treated properly in accordance with local (Italian) law, and that her human rights are not being infringed.

 

[piktor]

In the case of Meredith Kercher's death, however, I believe that it's relatively easy to say with confidence that her death must have occurred before 10pm at the very latest, and most likely before 9.30pm. This is because none of her stomach contents had yet passed through to her duodenum.
... the pizza meal would have had to remain totally within Meredith's stomach for at least 4.5 hours - and probably in fact more than 5 hours. This is so far outside of known parameters of gastric emptying that it's simply laughable.

I very deeply believe that this one point, if argued strongly and correctly by the defence attorneys in the appeal, will by itself render the first court's verdicts unsafe. There is, I believe, no documented case in medical history of a meal such as Meredith's pizza meal remaining 100% in the stomach for more than 3 hours. In fact, normally a meal such as this will start to pass through to the duodenum within 90 minutes of ingestion, but 3 hours is the outer boundary. There's no way that 4.5 or 5 hours is medically feasible - especially given that Meredith was a fit, healthy young girl, who was in a relaxed state for at least a couple of hours after eating, and who drank no alcohol with her meal.

...

If there was no food matter in her duodenum, Meredith Kercher was definitely killed before 10.00pm, and almost certainly before 9.30pm.[/I][/B]

The Massei Report on pages 148-150 states there were no ligatures made at doudenum or small intestine, meaning the content found at intestine's last loop evidently slid when the small intestine was manipulated by Dr. Lalli.

It is stated there was content in the last loop of the small intestine.

Digested food had passed into the small intestine. There is no doubt.

because unfortunately concrete elements were missing‛ (page 68); on the possibility that a sliding of the food from the duodenum to lower parts had occurred, he specified that it was not easy to hypothesise that the examination had taken place in such a way as to avoid that such an eventuality had been detected (‚because the [149] intestinal skein is a skein and therefore at a certain point it is necessary to pull on it to open it..." page 69); in this regard he testified to the presence of alimentary residuals in the small intestine.-Massei, 150

He further stressed that precise indications which would enable specification of the time needed for the alimentary material to reach the ileoececal valve did not exist and that this was because digestion is determined by a whole series of conditions which are absolutely individual and which are not consistent, even for the same person. However, it can take three, four, five hours for the stomach to empty, although it could also take much, much longer-Massei 148

He also added that, since ligatures had not been made, a certain downward slide could have occurred.-Massei 149

 

[Chris_Halkides]

timeline

It's astonishing to me that the defence seemingly let this issue get past everyone at the first trial. In order to support the prosecution's time of death (which was accepted by the court) of 11.30pm-11.50pm, the pizza meal would have had to remain totally within Meredith's stomach for at least 4.5 hours - and probably in fact more than 5 hours. This is so far outside of known parameters of gastric emptying that it's simply laughable.
[/I][/B]

LondonJohn,

According to Darkness Descending, the prosecution put the TOD an hour later in their closing arguments than they had previously. I have not been able to verify the accuracy of this bit of reporting yet. However, assuming it is true, the defense might have been caught off-guard. Just speculation on my part.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

Hi Charlie. Why do you think international pressure would help their cases? No nation likes to feel bullied (especially by the U.S.). Look what happened to Lori Berenson when her parents pushed the issue.

I am not suggesting a bullying approach. I support grassroots activism, the ultimate recourse of a democracy. It works because public authorities are sensitive to public opinion.

 

[Charlie Wilkes]

The Massei Report on pages 148-150 states there were no ligatures made at doudenum or small intestine, meaning the content found at intestine's last loop evidently slid when the small intestine was manipulated by Dr. Lalli.

It is stated there was content in the last loop of the small intestine.

Digested food had passed into the small intestine. There is no doubt.

because unfortunately concrete elements were missing‛ (page 68); on the possibility that a sliding of the food from the duodenum to lower parts had occurred, he specified that it was not easy to hypothesise that the examination had taken place in such a way as to avoid that such an eventuality had been detected (‚because the [149] intestinal skein is a skein and therefore at a certain point it is necessary to pull on it to open it..." page 69); in this regard he testified to the presence of alimentary residuals in the small intestine.-Massei, 150

He further stressed that precise indications which would enable specification of the time needed for the alimentary material to reach the ileoececal valve did not exist and that this was because digestion is determined by a whole series of conditions which are absolutely individual and which are not consistent, even for the same person. However, it can take three, four, five hours for the stomach to empty, although it could also take much, much longer-Massei 148

He also added that, since ligatures had not been made, a certain downward slide could have occurred.-Massei 149

I think he's saying here that the stomach and duodenal contents could have been squeezed into the small intestine during the autopsy, but even if that is true, it doesn't negate the fact that food was found in her stomach.

I would like to know under what circumstances it takes "much, much longer" than five hours for food to pass out of the stomach. Two hours is the norm.

 

[LondonJohn]

The Massei Report on pages 148-150 states there were no ligatures made at doudenum or small intestine, meaning the content found at intestine's last loop evidently slid when the small intestine was manipulated by Dr. Lalli.

It is stated there was content in the last loop of the small intestine.

Digested food had passed into the small intestine. There is no doubt.

because unfortunately concrete elements were missing‛ (page 68); on the possibility that a sliding of the food from the duodenum to lower parts had occurred, he specified that it was not easy to hypothesise that the examination had taken place in such a way as to avoid that such an eventuality had been detected (‚because the [149] intestinal skein is a skein and therefore at a certain point it is necessary to pull on it to open it..." page 69); in this regard he testified to the presence of alimentary residuals in the small intestine.-Massei, 150

He further stressed that precise indications which would enable specification of the time needed for the alimentary material to reach the ileoececal valve did not exist and that this was because digestion is determined by a whole series of conditions which are absolutely individual and which are not consistent, even for the same person. However, it can take three, four, five hours for the stomach to empty, although it could also take much, much longer-Massei 148

He also added that, since ligatures had not been made, a certain downward slide could have occurred.-Massei 149

This is all bogus, and an attempt to cover up incompetence on behalf of Lalli while conducting the autopsy.

As I understand it, Lalli did tie off the stomach from the duodenum, but failed to tie off the small intestine at various points, as correct practice would dictate. Umani Ronchi (another prosecution expert) is then in the position of having to wish away Lalli's incompetence, while still trying to please the prosecutors. He therefore speculates (totally without foundation) that part of Meredith's pizza meal had already entered her duodenum, but that it had slid all the way through her small intestines to the very last loop.

THIS. IS. PREPOSTEROUS. Do you know how long the small intestine is? It's around 6 metres in length. And it is not a hollow tube - it's a flexible muscular organ with a highly ridged inner surface where semi-liquid chyme is moved along by a process called peristalsis - a series of muscle contractions which squeeze the chyme slowly along the length of the small intestine.

So, even though Lalli failed to tie off the small intestine at various points along its length, it's almost impossible that he manipulated all the chyme from Meredith's duodenum and upper small intestine all the way through to the very last loop of her small intestine. It's almost certain that the matter found at the end of her small intestine was the remnants of whatever she had for lunch.

Just read again this weasel testimony from Umani Ronchi on the subject of whether it was possible for Lalli to have moved all the chyme matter from Meredith's duodenum and upper small intestine all the way to the last loop of her small intestine (my emphasis):

"on the possibility that a sliding of the food from the duodenum to lower parts had occurred, he specified that it was not easy to hypothesise that the examination had taken place in such a way as to avoid that such an eventuality had been detected"

WHAT?!!!

He's basically saying that steps were not taken during the autopsy to AVOID the possibility of chyme travelling all the way through the small intestine - i.e. the small intestine was not correctly tied off at various points among its length to guarantee that all its contents remained roughly in situ.

He is not, however, stating that in his view the manipulation of chyme all the way through the small intestine by Lalli is actually what happened (or even what might have happened) - but it sounds to me like he's couching his testimony in such a convoluted manner of double negatives etc that he's willfully trying to muddy the waters in this area.

To quote a very appropriate line from Blackadder Goes Forth: "I smell something fishy, and I'm not talking about the contents of Baldrick's apple crumble".

 

[katy_did]

The Massei Report on pages 148-150 states there were no ligatures made at doudenum or small intestine, meaning the content found at intestine's last loop evidently slid when the small intestine was manipulated by Dr. Lalli.

It is stated there was content in the last loop of the small intestine.

Digested food had passed into the small intestine. There is no doubt.

because unfortunately concrete elements were missing‛ (page 68); on the possibility that a sliding of the food from the duodenum to lower parts had occurred, he specified that it was not easy to hypothesise that the examination had taken place in such a way as to avoid that such an eventuality had been detected (‚because the [149] intestinal skein is a skein and therefore at a certain point it is necessary to pull on it to open it..." page 69); in this regard he testified to the presence of alimentary residuals in the small intestine.-Massei, 150

He further stressed that precise indications which would enable specification of the time needed for the alimentary material to reach the ileoececal valve did not exist and that this was because digestion is determined by a whole series of conditions which are absolutely individual and which are not consistent, even for the same person. However, it can take three, four, five hours for the stomach to empty, although it could also take much, much longer-Massei 148

He also added that, since ligatures had not been made, a certain downward slide could have occurred.-Massei 149

From Raffaele's appeal, p165:

However, the Court, during the hearing of 30.11.2009, was able to directly view the film of the autopsy carried out by Dr. Lalli, who correctly applied the ligatures to close the duodenum, so as to prevent any slippage of the gastric contents into the duodenum and from the duodenum down, stripping all credibility from the erroneous considerations put forward about possible slippage of food from the stomach to the duodenum.

But the decision has completely failed to evaluate this data.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The Massei Report on pages 148-150 states there were no ligatures made at doudenum or small intestine, meaning the content found at intestine's last loop evidently slid when the small intestine was manipulated by Dr. Lalli.

It is stated there was content in the last loop of the small intestine.

Digested food had passed into the small intestine. There is no doubt.

because unfortunately concrete elements were missing‛ (page 68); on the possibility that a sliding of the food from the duodenum to lower parts had occurred, he specified that it was not easy to hypothesise that the examination had taken place in such a way as to avoid that such an eventuality had been detected (‚because the [149] intestinal skein is a skein and therefore at a certain point it is necessary to pull on it to open it..." page 69); in this regard he testified to the presence of alimentary residuals in the small intestine.-Massei, 150

He further stressed that precise indications which would enable specification of the time needed for the alimentary material to reach the ileoececal valve did not exist and that this was because digestion is determined by a whole series of conditions which are absolutely individual and which are not consistent, even for the same person. However, it can take three, four, five hours for the stomach to empty, although it could also take much, much longer-Massei 148

He also added that, since ligatures had not been made, a certain downward slide could have occurred.-Massei 149

Very impressive - that may have something to do with why every doctor on this planet states that determining TOD by stomach contents, is not very reliable....

 

[Rhea]

So my point is this: the prosecution's claims regarding Knox/Sollecito's clothing would have had weight and substance if they had been able to place a credible witness before the court who could testify to missing clothing. But the fact that they couldn't back up their claims of clothing disposal - while it doesn't necessarily mean that clothing didn't go missing - certainly leads to more than reasonable doubt in this area as well.

Actually the police for several month thought Amanda's sweatshirt she was wearing the day of the murder was missing, as noticed by one of her italian roommates. This was a big thing of course. Then finally it was found in her room at the sealed cottage, month after the murder …

Frank Sfarzo wrote about it here:

From Perugia Shock (MONDAY, MARCH 17, 2008):

Last Friday there was a get-together at the house of horrors.
All of the sudden the lawyers got a call from the police and had to go there. Some things had to be seized, which is why the presence of the parties was necessary.
Among the items seized: Meredith's purse, Meredith's guitar, Amanda's guitar, the 2 Harry Potter books, a hair-dryer, a little pot of vaseline, a sweatshirt, etc. It seems that all of this seized stuff will be tested in light of some clues provided by a witness.

The purse was not the leather one we see on the bed but a cloth purse with Meredith's i-pod and make-up kit still inside. It seems that it was blood stained. Everything will be analyzed. Blood, fingerprints, more hair, etc.

The description given by police of the sweatshirt corresponds to the one Amanda was wearing the night of the crime, which police initially said had disappeared. So we learned that that sweatshirt was inside the house after all.

Today, then, a very important element against Amanda disappears: she never got rid of that sweatshirt, it seems.
So far, no scientific elements have emerged placing Amanda in the room, and even the supposed concealment of the sweatshirt never occurred. Amanda's position, from our point of view, has certainly improved but several elements against her persist.

 

[RoseMontague]

From Raffaele's appeal, p165:

Quote:
However, the Court, during the hearing of 30.11.2009, was able to directly view the film of the autopsy carried out by Dr. Lalli, who correctly applied the ligatures to close the duodenum, so as to prevent any slippage of the gastric contents into the duodenum and from the duodenum down, stripping all credibility from the erroneous considerations put forward about possible slippage of food from the stomach to the duodenum.

But the decision has completely failed to evaluate this data.

But it was a rather large duodenum, I am certain. Why am I not surprised the court chose to ignore this evidence, even if it was video. Just WOW. That reeks. Saying that the court "completely failed to evaluate this data" is a very nice way of putting this one. Perhaps a bit stronger terminology would be appropriate in this particular instance.

 

[Alt+F4]

I am not suggesting a bullying approach. I support grassroots activism, the ultimate recourse of a democracy. It works because public authorities are sensitive to public opinion.

Laws are not subject to public opinion. As far as I can tell, no laws were broken in the course of this prosecution and convictions.

Has there ever been a case where "grassroot activism" has helped an American convicted of murder in a foreign country? I've mentioned Lori Berenson before, she's headed back to prison.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/19/world/americas/19berenson.html?_r=1&hp

 

[piktor]

From Raffaele's appeal, p165:

So the question will not be answered until appeal.

Dr. Lalli found content in the small intestine's final loop, as did Prof. Umani Ronchi.

Time of death based on stomach content is inherently unreliable. All experts agree on that.

 

[LondonJohn]

The video that accompanied the Spheron files included a brief glimpse of the mop and bucket...

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/frame_from_walkaround_showing_mop.jpg

Many people have done their utmost to spin a sinister tale around the fact that Amanda carried a mop to and from Raffaele's apt. on the morning of Nov. 2. But it doesn''t make sense. The crime scene was not at Raffaele's place. Plus, the authorities interviewed the landlady and the plumber who serviced the building. They confirmed that there was a problem with the drainpipe under Raffaele's kitchen sink, just as he and Amanda said.

Including the latest triumphant reveal by SomeAlibi over at PMF, in which he confidently announces that he has definitively figured out "what happened" with regard to the mop.

Unfortunately for him, there is no evidence of any mop usage at the murder house, and none of the mops or buckets showed any trace of having been used to clean up the crime scene. He also fails to understand that mops are not only used merely to soak up water. If Sollecito had indeed had a significant amount of dishwater leaking onto his kitchen floor on the evening of the 1st (and we have no reason to doubt that, since he mentioned it explicitly to his father in the 20.48 phone call), then it's highly likely that there would have been residual tide marks and even small pools of water still there the following morning. The purpose of fetching a mop that morning would therefore have not merely been to soak up residual water, but also to actually clean the kitchen floor of the dirty tide marks and water stains.

His "grand theory" of the mop-head-exchange also signally fails to explain why it wouldn't have been far, far easier for Knox to buy (or steal, if you prefer) a new mop head, then just take it straight back to the girls' house to swap it with the "covered-in-Meredith's-blood" mop head. His "reasoning" for this seems to be that a new mop head would in itself look suspicious, and therefore it needed to be "dirtied-up" a bit in order to lend it credibility.

But if that's the case, why couldn't Knox have done something simple such as engineer a "spillage" of some juice in the girls' kitchen? If she'd done this, she could have used the new mop head to clean up this spillage, thereby giving it the vital "used" appearance. And this could have been done without risking re-contamination from the murder scene, or without having to take the mop and bucket to-and-fro to Sollecito's apartment.

To me, the mop is of no relevance whatsoever to the investigation. And this idea that Knox and Sollecito would have the wherewithal to go to these extraordinary lengths in order to wave red herrings in front of the police is equally risible. In my opinion, SA's "grand theory" buckles under the slightest scrutiny, and is yet another example of a biased search for malevolent behaviour from Knox and Sollecito where none exists.

 

[LondonJohn]

From Raffaele's appeal, p165:

"However, the Court, during the hearing of 30.11.2009, was able to directly view the film of the autopsy carried out by Dr. Lalli, who correctly applied the ligatures to close the duodenum, so as to prevent any slippage of the gastric contents into the duodenum and from the duodenum down, stripping all credibility from the erroneous considerations put forward about possible slippage of food from the stomach to the duodenum.

But the decision has completely failed to evaluate this data."

WOAHHHHHHH!

In the light of this, serious questions need to be asked about the objectivity of Umani Ronchi. He appears (if the appeal argument is correct) to have blatantly invented a rationale for chyme to move from Meredith's duodenum to the very end of her small intestine during the autopsy.

If the autopsy film indeed shows the duodenum being correctly tied off where it meets the jejenum, then the credibility of Umani Rochi would seem to be all but destroyed. After all, this suggests that he might have deliberately impugned the professionalism of Lalli in order to create a false scenario where: 1) Lalli failed to tie off the duodenum correctly; 2) the intestinal contents were mistakenly manipulated by Lalli during the autopsy - out of the duodenum and upper small intestine, and down to the very end of the small intestine; 3) The resultant recorded state of stomach/duodenum/small intestine contents could now support the prosecution's 11.30-11.50pm time of death.

This, I suggest, is serious stuff. Of course, it also throws further light on Massei's reasoning in this area, since he apparently chose to disregard all evidence linking the stomach/duodenum contents with a ToD before 10.00pm.

 

[Malkmus]

Just read this article from the AP which I think puts a lot of what has been alleged in this case by those of us who think that evidence has been misrepresented because of the tight relationship between prosecutor and crime lab:

Analysts at North Carolina's crime lab omitted, overstated or falsely reported blood evidence in dozens of cases, including three that ended in executions and another where two men were imprisoned for murdering Michael Jordan's father, according to a scathing review released Wednesday.

The government-ordered inquest by two former FBI officials found that agents of the State Bureau of Investigation repeatedly aided prosecutors in obtaining convictions over a 16-year period, mostly by misrepresenting blood evidence and keeping critical notes from defense attorneys.

Attorney General Roy Cooper ordered the review in March after an SBI agent testified the crime lab once had a policy of excluding complete blood test results from reports offered to defense lawyers before trials. The existence of the policy was later confirmed by a former SBI director. Agent Duane Deaver's testimony led to the exoneration of a murder convict imprisoned nearly 17 years.

The review found 230 cases in which eight SBI analysts filed reports that, at best, were incomplete. Of those, 190 resulted in criminal charges. The report says the lab may have violated federal and state laws mandating that evidence favorable to defendants be shared with their lawyers. It also bolsters defense attorneys' long-held argument that the lab is in the pocket of law enforcement.

The review states an SBI analyst reported that an examination of the scene indicated the presence of blood, but didn't say that four subsequent tests were inconclusive.

In two of the cases, including Carter's, Deaver's final report on blood analyses said his tests "revealed the presence of blood" when his notes indicated negative results from follow-up tests. His notes indicate that he got a negative result because he didn't have enough sample left for the confirmatory test.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ginVyvyjHoUkMCDDWKgMWh9ujrVQD9HM560O3

I can't help but think that if a similar review were conducted of the lab in Perugia that they would find very similar findings, especially with what we know regarding the LCN DNA and luminol tests.

 

[Draca]

"The purse was not the leather one we see on the bed but a cloth purse with Meredith's i-pod and make-up kit still inside."

This couldn't possibly be the cloth beige bag that MK actually used the night of the murder could it be? The purse her keys that were needed to leave the house may have been in? And it was blood stained? It seems very likely if her Ipod was in the bag it may be that one. I have often wondered about the testing of the beige cloth bag.

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

The only source I have for this is RS's lawyer. Do you have a link to something else? Thanks. I don't know how it can be established that "someone" opened and closed a computer file without knowing the details about the file. Many computer programs (such as anti-virus) can go on automatically. An even if "someone" physicallydid access a computer file how can that be an alibi for two people?

For starters the prosecution story is that they were both there when Kercher was killed. If one of them was at home clicking on things, then they weren't both there and that theory goes out the window.

More importantly the prosecution story is that they killed Kercher together as part of a sex game gone wrong and are covering for each other. If only one of them did it while the other was at home, then that story goes out the window too because it doesn't make a great deal of sense to cover for a murderer that you've only been with for six days.

Once again you seem to be drifting into a new kind of thinking where it's necessary for Knox and Sollecito to prove beyond unreasonable doubt that neither one of them could possibly have killed Meredith Kercher, and the prosecution is allowed to freely change its story on the fly with no regard for common sense and to completely ignore hard evidence like the 21:46 computer activity if it suits them.

I do not know why you keep repeating this demand for more information about the computer activity, when I have already told you that you have all the information I have. Shall we agree for now that if it turns out that the defence made it up out of whole cloth then Amanda and Raffaele could have murdered Meredith around 9pm, and that if the defence did not make it up out of whole cloth then Amanda and Raffaele are provably innocent?

Nope. If there was computer activity I think it was automatic, no premeditation. They simply left the computer on when they went to her apartment to get clothes for the day trip.

That's nice.

I think the prosecution got a lot of it wrong, but they are still guilty (to lesser degrees - I think AK was there but did not participate, I think RS only helped hold Meredith down, I think RG did the stabbing and sexual assult).

That's nice.

As I said, I'm not particularly interested in discussing whatever private theories you come up with unless you can prove those private theories are true beyond reasonable doubt. I'm interested in whether the actual prosecution was sound or unsound.