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Merged Obama enters GZ Mosque debate

Darth Rotor said:
WTF? It isn't "at ground zero" it is 'near" ground zero which bit of pedantic precision some of the folks getting in an uproar take great pains not to acknowledge.

Of is all of Lower Manhattan now hollowed ground? If so, the New Yorkers need to stop taking themselves so seriously.
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yes, apparently Ground Zero and anything within a 2.5 block radius is now hallowed ground.

:)
 
dudalb said:
I am not sure this is going to be that political costly to Obama. The people who will be upset by it oppose him anyway.
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Yup, this is my thought as well.

Let's not forget that this issue is waaaaaaaaaaaaay down the list of things most people in the U.S. care about now (Remember: "It's the economy, stupid"). It will be fodder in 2012 for the rightwing nutjobs who hate Obama's guts anyway, and it just might gain him some respect among more moderate & liberal voters because he's standing up for what's right (you know, a little piece of paper called the U.S. Constitution). I can also see the right wingers easily going overboard on this as well and alienating more moderate voters, as they sometimes have a history of doing that sort of thing.

And, if my opinion isn't enough, then take a look at the Intrade prediction market for whether or not Obama will be re-elected in 2012. Before this announcement, he was at 60% to win in 2012, and after the announcement he's still at 60% to win in 2012.

In short, meh :rolleyes:
 
Those opposing the mosque (i.e. islamic Church) seem to be confusing the term with "Islamic terrorist training facility".
 
johnny karate said:
I wonder if the Christian churches within a 2.5 mile radius of any of these places were shut down. Otherwise it would feel disrespectful, even deliberately provocative.
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Good point, though I was going to mention something about the KKK and racism in the Deep South. And before anyone starts going on about how churches in the South back in the day weren't connected to the Klan, I know it happened: my grandfather was both a Baptist minister and a Klansman.
 
the KKK is offended by AME churches in the South. maybe we should have these churches removed, as to keep the KKK from being offended.
 
I was actually very heartened by his original comments. And I love the fact that it drew out Newt. Nice to see him taking the lead for the bigots. Kinda hard to separate his comments from the rest of the intolerant nitwits who are twisting this issue. Obama was right in his original comments. Any thinking person knows that. AQ is not Islam. AQ is not representative of Islam. The people building the mosque have nothing to do with the terrorists.

I'm not so pleased with the backtracking and hedging he did in his Florida comments, though. Take a stand, dammit, Barack! You're the President of the USA, not the President of the poll-takers in the White House. So what if you rile up the bigots. Look in the mirror, you're black. Bee ell aye cee kay. Black! They aren't going to vote for you, anyway. And you don't step into the fray on Friday and then rise above it on Saturday. That's just dumb and it's obvious pandering.

The Foolmewunz jury is still out. I thought he was finally growing a pair. Evidently his handlers still feel the need to cater to every commentator or blogger and concede ground to them.
 
bynmdsue said:
Voting present yet again...
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/15/us/politics/15islamcenter.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss

He supports religious freedom in the abstract but this particular project? No comment.

Thank you for your bold leadership,sir.
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Thanks for helping point out what uselesss morons King, Newt and the orange-skinned freak from Ohio are.

These nutjobs have spent the last thirty years trying to sell us the idea that the GOP is all about religious freedom and prosperity.

What they meant was that government should get out of the way of the evangelicals who wanted to run the country's spiritual affairs, just as they want government out of the way of the money-changers who want to run our ecconomic affairThey have no problem with the fact that the law can't touch that scuzzball Phelps when he acts like a total thug in public, but get their panties in a bunch over a congregation of Muslims who want a better place of worship and fellowship WHERE THEY ARE ALREADY DOING IT.

I guess that is because they have a problem processing facts not presented by their ear crickets.

Or it's because they don't want to lose the last solid block of votes they have left.
 
Neally said:
He and you are in the minority opinion. Nearly 70 percent of people feel an Islamic center near ground zero is disrespectful, even deliberately provocative.
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Believing it is disrespectful is different than believing they don't have the right to build it.
 
Unabogie said:
Taking a position opposed by 70% of the public goes against basic politics. The fact that he did it anyway is a major act of courage, considering that it's an election year where his side is losing and the other side is using fear to gin up votes.
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I have to question whether 70% of rational and well-informed citizens oppose the Islamic Center at that location.

The nutbars and dimwits who listen to the Rushblob, BillO, Hannity and that ranting moron Wiener probably think it is right in the footprint of the south tower.

It's only a big deal because the foaming-at-the-mouth channel made it a big deal, and most people are too freaking lazy to fact-check them.
 
I too oppose a Mosque in Ground Zero.

But I have no problem with one 2.5 blocks away.
 
Neally said:
Seriously, no. The 1st amendment does not grant the unconditional right of anyone to construct any building anywhere they want, regardless of whether it is religious related or not.
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True, but if zoning laws permit it, there are no other impediments.
 
Neally said:
Seriously, no. The 1st amendment does not grant the unconditional right of anyone to construct any building anywhere they want, regardless of whether it is religious related or not.
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It certainly does remove the authority of any level of government to disallow the construction of a religious building based on what religion it is.

Do you think there would be any similar "controversy" about building a church or synagogue in Manhattan?

The First Amendment issue in this case makes it absolutely clear that they do have the right to build a mosque on their land. Casting the question any other way is to repeat the misinformation I keep hearing.
 
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Unabogie said:
Taking a position opposed by 70% of the public goes against basic politics. The fact that he did it anyway is a major act of courage, considering that it's an election year where his side is losing and the other side is using fear to gin up votes.
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I understand your point, but I disagree. Some of these poll results are based on popular misinformation and ignorance. The vast majority of Americans reject evolution, yet it doesn't take any particular political chutzpah to oppose attempts by Creationists (or Intelligent Design Proponents, or Fine Tuning Proponents, or whatever name this religious anti-science doctrine goes under) to get their doctrines taught in public school science classes.

I think Obama would have done better to maintain a strong position of saying there's no real controversy: we're not about to repeal the First Amendment. Period. This business about no comment on the "wisdom" of building a mosque at that location just blurs a simple message that all Americans should support.

I happen to think a lot of things corporations do with their money and their property isn't at all "wise", but my opinion does nothing to curtail their right to do those things.
 
leftysergeant said:
I have to question whether 70% of rational and well-informed citizens oppose the Islamic Center at that location.

The nutbars and dimwits who listen to the Rushblob, BillO, Hannity and that ranting moron Wiener probably think it is right in the footprint of the south tower.

It's only a big deal because the foaming-at-the-mouth channel made it a big deal, and most people are too freaking lazy to fact-check them.
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Our local paper has an online article about the Islamic Center. The comments section is full of misinformed posts opposing the construction of a mosque at ground zero. They are responding to the lies they heard on right wing talk radio instead of the facts in the newspaper article.
 
The Charnel Expanse said:
True, but if zoning laws permit it, there are no other impediments.
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And the First Amendment also prevents New York from passing ad hoc zoning laws that would essentially be used to limit freedom of religion.

Again, if someone were proposing a Christian church on the exact same property in question, there would be no controversy at all. It's obvious, therefore, that any attempt to stop construction of this mosque would be a violation of the First Amendment.
 
Neally said:
Seriously, no. The 1st amendment does not grant the unconditional right of anyone to construct any building anywhere they want, regardless of whether it is religious related or not.
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The zoning laws permit it. There is no structural safety problem. The only safety problem is the existance of an unacceptable number of ranting morons being stirred on by racists and religious whackadoodles, but that is not a legitimate barrier to a religious activity. The government has no right to bar the construction of a religious facility that meets all other codes.

There is also a greater concern here. If government gives in to the demands of the dregs of society on this one, what other liberties will be sacrificed by other worshippers of other faiths down the road? The possible outcomes are unacceptable for a host of reasons.
 
Thunder said:
while I agree with his statement 100%, that freedom and tolerance must always trump extremism and irrational fear, I wish he had stayed out of this one.
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In my opinion, Obama's greatest flaw is that he never knows when an issue just isn't any of his business.
 
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