The "Nakba" Myth

[Mycroft]

Nakba denial is not a creative name...its two words that clearly express an attitude. I know you don't outright deny....neither does Giwer outright deny the holocaust but that doesn't mean he isn't a holocaust denier does it.

It’s creative in that it purposefully conflates the pro-Israeli position with holocaust deniers, even though the holocaust deniers take your position. Which is kind of disgusting, in my opinion, given the relationship between Israel and the Holocaust.

QED...this is a common line among Holocaust deniers....The jews bought it on themselves whereas the Nakba denier believes the Palestinians bought it on themselves.

Let’s try a thought experiment to see if we can discern a difference between these two positions.

1) Let’s name the activities of European Jews that brought the Holocaust down on themselves.

2) Let’s name the activities of Arabs circa 1890-1948 that brought violence and ultimately led to war.

Then let’s see which list is bigger. Care to try?

 

[Mycroft]

well it seems there are some people that regard a land theirs, even after 1000's of years it was not theirs. They never gave up on it. It remained in their hearts and prayers, until they finally got it back.

That's called "a strong cultural connection".

 

[Skeptic]

Would you consider having a bunch of people of a different ethnicity moving into your neighborhood and founding a nation to be the same as being arrested by Nazis? That seems really puzzling to me. Being arrested by Nazis means certain death, but having people of a different ethnicity move in? That just means having access to different foods and music.

Well, not necessarily, since immigration has its costs.

But you're right that there is an obvious double standard here.

The Palestinians, on many people's view, were justified in violently resisting "darn' furrigners" coming into the neighborhood (never mind for a minute how "foreign" the Jews actually were). Indeed, they were justified in starting a war of annihilation against them.

But the very same folks who "understand" the Palestinian's genocidal desires in this regard, would never in a million years agree that the same "understanding" should apply to those who are against Islamic (or Black or Mexican or whatever) immigration to the west.

Why is it that the only time fear of immigrants coupled with the desire to violently kick them out is not considered racist thuggery is when the Palestinians do it?

Why the double standard? Are Jewish immigrants somehow uniquely despicable? Or perhaps Palestinians so utterly lacking in their ability to control their violent impulses it's pointless to ask them to?

 

[Pardalis]

every time you shine the light on yourself on this topic you just dig yourself deeper.

You don't seem to be able to discuss the Nakba without referring to the Holocaust, which indicates to me that you are unable to discuss it intelligently, that your arguments for the Nakba can't stand on their own, so you rely on the Holocaust simply as a cheap rhetorical device to attack your opponent.

 

[Skeptic]

It’s creative in that it purposefully conflates the pro-Israeli position with holocaust deniers, even though the holocaust deniers take your position.

We had recent threads in this forum where admitted holocaust deniers (such as Matt Giwer and "Little Grey Rabbit") were in total agreement with certain "progressive left" posters on this blog about just how evil and disgusting Israel is for doing X or for being Y.

That sort of left-right joint antisemitism is very common, in this forum as elsewhere. As far as Israel is concerned, the "progressive" left and the neo-Nazis are practically equivalent.

 

[DC]

We had recent threads in this forum where admitted holocaust deniers (such as Matt Giwer and "Little Grey Rabbit") were in total agreement with certain "progressive left" posters on this blog about just how evil and disgusting Israel is for doing X or for being Y.

That sort of left-right joint antisemitism is very common, in this forum as elsewhere. As far as Israel is concerned, the "progressive" left and the neo-Nazis are practically equivalent.

you are a bad person for driving on Autobahnen. And do you believe in a creator? Hitler agreed on the existence of a creator.

 

[Mycroft]

You don't seem to be able to discuss the Nakba without referring to the Holocaust, which indicates to me that you are unable to discuss it intelligently, that your arguments for the Nakba can't stand on their own, so you rely on the Holocaust simply as a cheap rhetorical device to attack your opponent.

Bingo!

We had recent threads in this forum where admitted holocaust deniers (such as Matt Giwer and "Little Grey Rabbit") were in total agreement with certain "progressive left" posters on this blog about just how evil and disgusting Israel is for doing X or for being Y.

That sort of left-right joint antisemitism is very common, in this forum as elsewhere. As far as Israel is concerned, the "progressive" left and the neo-Nazis are practically equivalent.

I gotta tell you, if I ever found myself in agreement with the likes of Giwer or Little Grey Rabbit, that would certainly lead to a lot of soul-searching and fact-checking.

I wonder how these progressive types deal with it. Particularly since the claim is often made that they don't argue against those types because they're not represented here...and yet here they are, and they will instead choose to argue with you and I instead of them.

 

[Thunder]

So you are comparing them.

no, I have not. but if I did, that would be ok.

ethnic cleasing and genocide are events that can be compared.

 

[Thunder]

You don't seem to be able to discuss the Nakba without referring to the Holocaust, which indicates to me that you are unable to discuss it intelligently, that your arguments for the Nakba can't stand on their own, so you rely on the Holocaust simply as a cheap rhetorical device to attack your opponent.

is that why YOU keep on falsely accusing me of comparing the Shoah to the Nakba?

 

[bigjelmapro]

No, but he is an example of that group. Do you think nobody in the world shares his view?

Who is talking about the world here? Talking about this forum.

 

[DC]

Who is talking about the world here? Talking about this forum.

Do you disagree with him on it?

 

[Mycroft]

is that why YOU keep on falsely accusing me of comparing the Shoah to the Nakba?

Do we need to show you more examples?

 

[a_unique_person]

Well, not necessarily, since immigration has its costs.

But you're right that there is an obvious double standard here.

The Palestinians, on many people's view, were justified in violently resisting "darn' furrigners" coming into the neighborhood (never mind for a minute how "foreign" the Jews actually were). Indeed, they were justified in starting a war of annihilation against them.

But the very same folks who "understand" the Palestinian's genocidal desires in this regard, would never in a million years agree that the same "understanding" should apply to those who are against Islamic (or Black or Mexican or whatever) immigration to the west.

Why is it that the only time fear of immigrants coupled with the desire to violently kick them out is not considered racist thuggery is when the Palestinians do it?

Why the double standard? Are Jewish immigrants somehow uniquely despicable? Or perhaps Palestinians so utterly lacking in their ability to control their violent impulses it's pointless to ask them to?

Immigrants move into your country and become a part of your country, they don't start their own country where you live and kick you out of yours.

 

[Pardalis]

No, but he is an example of that group.

I just want to state for the record that when I post something I do not represent anybody or speak for anybody else but myself.

And also, for anyone who might be confused, the picture in my avatar is not me.

Thank you for your cooperation.

Do you think nobody in the world shares his view?

Apparently you do.

 

[Virus]

Immigrants move into your country and become a part of your country, they don't start their own country where you live and kick you out of yours.

The Palestinian exodus occurred as a result of the 1948 war. Which the Arabs started.

 

[a_unique_person]

The Palestinian exodus occurred as a result of the 1948 war. Which the Arabs started.

The iron wall was well in place before Israel declared itself a state. As Bibi's tape shows, it's still in place. Everyone who is denied self determination fights for it.

 

[Virus]

What iron wall? The Palestinians could have had self-determination the 6000 times it was offered to them.

 

[a_unique_person]

What iron wall? The Palestinians could have had self-determination the 6000 times it was offered to them.

They weren't offered self determination.

 

[Thunder]

The Palestinian exodus occurred as a result of the 1948 war. Which the Arabs started.

yeah, and the Jewish exodus from Germany was due to the world-wide Jewish boycott of Germany.

 

[Mycroft]

Immigrants move into your country and become a part of your country, they don't start their own country where you live and kick you out of yours.

Well that's exactly the misrepresentation. Nobody got kicked out until there was war. If there hadn't been war, nobody would have been kicked out.