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Banned Book:The Hoax of the Twentieth Century

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Gawdzilla said:
So lying shouldn't be punished? Oh, wait, that'd give you problems, wouldn't it?
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No. Lying really shouldn't be punished. There is no law on the books that makes lying as such illegal in Germany.

However, by lying you might become guilty of other, punishable crimes, such as
- fraud
- libel
- insult
- instigating hatred and violence
 
Oystein said:
No. Lying really shouldn't be punished. There is no law on the books that makes lying as such illegal in Germany.

However, by lying you might become guilty of other, punishable crimes, such as
- fraud
- libel
- insult
- instigating hatred and violence
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Um, I was referring to Zundel's imprisonment in Canada.
 
TSR said:
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You think maybe the lack of popularity might play a part? It has been shown that the National Library stocks two copies, which would have needed to have been bought at tome point.
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No, it's not a matter of popularity. The book is really banned from being published and distributed. However, it is not illegal to own it.
The point of indexing such hate speech is not to destroy the content, but merely to keep it from spreading in a way that is detrimental to society or substantial parts of it. All literature, even indexes hate speech, is open to scientific research. I am not sure what the legal basis and procedure is for university libraries or the National Library to acquire indexed books. They apparently just can. Or maybe they got their copies before the book was indexed.
 
TSR said:
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Nor is the discussion about the publisher's stock.

The OP's claim is that the book is banned.

It is not.

Whether it is available at retail, or how easy it might be to find a copy to purchase are irrelevant.
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ddt said:
I agree. But I thought we had concluded it was not banned in Germany, and had moved on. Everybody's seen the evidence, and everybody is convinced of that, except for the OP and his buddy neo-Nasties.
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Again: You are both wrong if by "not banned" you mean "can be sold and bought in Germany if only a publisher, distributor, vendor or buyer wants to". This is not the case.

Arthur Butz' book is on the index of the Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien, labelled with the letter , which means the grounds for indexing this book is its violating the penal code. The Jugendschutzgesetz (Law for the Protection of the Youth) provides in §18(2).2: "...In Teil B (Öffentliche Liste der Trägermedien mit absolutem Verbreitungsverbot) sind, soweit sie nicht Teil D zuzuordnen sind, Trägermedien aufzunehmen, die nach Einschätzung der Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien einen in § 86, § 130, § 130a, § 131, § 184a, 184b oder § 184c des Strafgesetzbuches bezeichneten Inhalt haben;". Translation: "In Part B (public media with absolute prohibition on distribution), those media are to be listed which violate, according to the judgement of the Bundesprüfstelle, one of the provisions in paragraphs ... of the Penal Code". These paragraphs cover the following crimes:
§ 86: Distribution of propaganda for organisations hostile to the Constitution
§ 130: Volksverhetzung
§ 130a: Instruction manuals on how to commit crimes
§ 131: Depiction of violence
§ 184a: Violent or animal pornography
§ 184b: Child pornography
§ 184c: Adolescent pornography
Butz' book was most probably thusly banned on the grounds of §130.
 
Gawdzilla said:
Sigh. "Deliberate falsehood with intent to deceive."
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By golly! I was in Vancouver a couple of years ago. A woman asked me "So, do you think I am pretty?", and I lied and said "Yes, you are pretty" in order to get her laid.

Sue me! :D
 
Oystein said:
Again: You are both wrong if by "not banned" you mean "can be sold and bought in Germany if only a publisher, distributor, vendor or buyer wants to". This is not the case.

Arthur Butz' book is on the index of the Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien, labelled with the letter , which means the grounds for indexing this book is its violating the penal code. The Jugendschutzgesetz (Law for the Protection of the Youth) provides in §18(2).2: "...In Teil B (Öffentliche Liste der Trägermedien mit absolutem Verbreitungsverbot) sind, soweit sie nicht Teil D zuzuordnen sind, Trägermedien aufzunehmen, die nach Einschätzung der Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien einen in § 86, § 130, § 130a, § 131, § 184a, 184b oder § 184c des Strafgesetzbuches bezeichneten Inhalt haben;". Translation: "In Part B (public media with absolute prohibition on distribution), those media are to be listed which violate, according to the judgement of the Bundesprüfstelle, one of the provisions in paragraphs ... of the Penal Code". These paragraphs cover the following crimes:
§ 86: Distribution of propaganda for organisations hostile to the Constitution
§ 130: Volksverhetzung
§ 130a: Instruction manuals on how to commit crimes
§ 131: Depiction of violence
§ 184a: Violent or animal pornography
§ 184b: Child pornography
§ 184c: Adolescent pornography
Butz' book was most probably thusly banned on the grounds of §130.
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I see by this post and your previous one that you located the list that I couldn't find. Thank you. So. Mondial is correct, the book is forbidden and we don't have to take his word for it.

Very good.

Now, the question is, how does that square with the Jews being responsible for everything since there is a definite shortage of them in Germany.
 
Oystein said:
It is true alright that you can't buy the book in Germany. As I have already written, it is in fact indexed on the grounds of violating German penal law and must therefore not be published, distributed or made available to youth.

I said all this already.
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Yes you did. But the Zionists didn't acknowledge it. So you tell them again. Makes no difference. You don't understand the total depravity of the US Zionists. Maybe the German Zionists are a little more circumspect.

The Zionists on this board are like a Greek chorus, but, instead of singing the praises of Zeus and Apollo, they mumble the same curses and incantations no matter what the topic, whenever the truth is revealed.

So, you tell the Zionists the truth, and wait for the chorus ...... LOL.
 
Saggy said:
Yes you did. But the Zionists didn't acknowledge it. So you tell them again. Makes no difference. You don't understand the total depravity of the US Zionists. Maybe the German Zionists are a little more circumspect.

The Zionists on this board are like a Greek chorus, but, instead of singing the praises of Zeus and Apollo, they mumble the same curses and incantations no matter what the topic, whenever the truth is revealed.

So, you tell the Zionists the truth, and wait for the chorus ...... LOL.
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Which zionists would that be here in Germany?

Oh, and I acknowledged Oystein BEFORE you posted. I appreciate facts.
 
Saggy said:
He was either lying, or he is a fool. I don't know a damn thing about it, but I do know, all dancing around the index aside, that you can't buy the book in Germany, say, order it from Amazon, or buy it at the German equivalent of Barnes and Noble.
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And as everyone knows those are the only ways to read a book.

I mean this is 1991 right? That internet thing just can't handle the data presented in an entire book yet. How on earth would one read this book if they couldn't get it from amazon or a book store, the mind boggles....
 
TSR said:
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You think maybe the lack of popularity might play a part? It has been shown that the National Library stocks two copies, which would have needed to have been bought at tome point.
.
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What!? You mean publishers won't fund the publication of books that won't make them money?

I'm shocked!
 
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So distribution (from what I can tell that means in this case the selling or giving away of the book to an individual, right?) is prohibited. Sounds like Germans can still read it thanks to German libraries, if they're interested in the ridiculous rantings of a professor who is out of his field and out of his depth.
 
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Not long ago on another forum I proposed, half-joking, that the forum create a 'book club' and discuss Butz's tome. Interestingly almost all the deniers ran a mile from this idea, but the non-deniers had themselves a bit of sport with the hoary old screed. Thread is here, and is worth a read.

The mystery is why do so many deniers in 2010 tout a book that is 35 years old and was a piece of you-know-what even then?
 
Corsair 115 said:
Because old fertilizer is all they've got to offer?
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Actually, deniers have published about 120 books since Butz. Yet time and again they reach back to Butz and tout him as, supposedly, the life-changing introduction to their creed. You wouldn't find macro-CTs recommending Gary Allen's None Dare Call It Conspiracy (1972) as the introduction to NWO theories.

Oh wait, antisemites still publish the Protocols... hmmm, that must be it, antisemites are, even by CT standards, retarded.
 
CptColumbo said:
Nothing comes up for "Arthur Butz" at Amazon.de, except for comments in other people's book entries.
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Paperback edition seems to be available at Amazon.co.uk - at £42 new or £30 used! :eek: Or 75p for the Kindle edition. Which you can presumably download anywhere?
 
Aitch said:
Paperback edition seems to be available at Amazon.co.uk - at £42 new or £30 used! :eek: Or 75p for the Kindle edition. Which you can presumably download anywhere?
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75p? It sounds like that's still too much.

In today's world it seem that a banning of a book has less meaning then it did in the 1930s (just to pull a period out of thin air).
 
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Nick Terry said:
Not long ago on another forum I proposed, half-joking, that the forum create a 'book club' and discuss Butz's tome. Interestingly almost all the deniers ran a mile from this idea, but the non-deniers had themselves a bit of sport with the hoary old screed. Thread is here, and is worth a read.

The mystery is why do so many deniers in 2010 tout a book that is 35 years old and was a piece of you-know-what even then?
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Old age is no rational reason to dismiss a book.

Even though Hilberg's "Destruction" has enjoyed updates and revisions, the latest in 2003, the first edition of 1961 was already excellent and would deserve being quoted and used today.

Biologists often quote Darwin's "Origin", 151 after its first release, because it was an excellent book with lots of good, original concepts. I might even go back to Aristotle's Organon - not forgotten because it is, well, a good body of work.
 
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