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The "Nakba" Myth

Thunder said:
Um....I was born a Jew. That's cause my mom is a Jew.

what's is wrong with this concept? Muslims follow a similar idea.

and why do you keep derailing? this is a standard tactic of conspiracy theorists, and other folks who I will not mention..just yet.
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Your point appears to be you are no better than a Muslim which is not all that enlightened.

But to believe you can be born a Jew means you accept the precept of Judaism that one can be born a Jew.

If you do in fact believe you were born a Jew then you believe in Judaism. I have no problem with believers but I do not give them any credence and generally ridicule them just for the fun of it as does any rational skeptic.

But in fact you do not appear to understand Judaism. For a male one can become a Jew but only after ritual genital mutilation a Mikvah and lead an Jewish life in accordance with the Torah. (The Bar Mitzvah was invented about 140 years ago and it based upon the Jesus in the temple story but is otherwise new to Jewish tradition.) Having a jewish mother is only the eligiblity to going through the other rituals.

But you pretend to know all this.

I realize what I am posting. What is your position as a member of the Mosaic confession?
 
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lionking said:
Are you going to address the point that expecting Israel to give their nation to the Palestineans is precisely the same as Australia and the US giving their nation to the indigenous inhabitants?
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was it also the same when the Palestinians where "asked" to give their land to the indigenous inhabitants?
 
DC said:
was it also the same when the Palestinians where "asked" to give their land to the indigenous inhabitants?
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It is sort of odd to read that bunch of Polacks should be given the keys to Palestine because they were Jews instead of because they were murderous enough to get the Brits to leave.
 
lionking said:
What? So treaties extracted under threat of extermination was all the the Israeli's needed? Do you realise how nonsensical this argument is?
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Why, no, no "he?" doesn't. The flaw in your question is that realisation of error requires thinking capability above the "fahr hot, hurt gleeck thumbie!!"
level. Unfortunately, the anti-Israel group seems to have slowly de-evolved to that level - possibly the influence of more recent recruits, possibly just a general lowering of ability all over there. Not sure which, Don't really care much - just pathetic to watch happen.

As I used to say in another but amazingly similar situation in the education field when asked why I didn't just transfer to another, far better school" " Damn it, I missed the fall of the Roman Empire, I'm not gonna miss watching this breakup all the way down!!"
 
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Matt Giwer said:
Here is a big surprise for you. Poles are not a race. Jews nota race. Germans are not a race. Jews are not a race.

There is nothing racist in my post. Why do you make such an abviously false assertion?
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The term racism is used to describe prejudice against groups based not only on race, but also on ethnicity or religion. Due to this, your response is meaningless.

As for my assertion, it was based on your crude description above. The Jews are not polaks, a derogatory term for the Polish people. Polish Jews were never accepted into Polish societey and certainly did not see themselves as part of the Polish people. Furthermore, Israeli Jews originated from many other places. Then there is also the silly way you presented the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which the implication that the Jews were murderers. As a result, I happen to think that my observation was accurate.
 
Matt Giwer said:
It is sort of odd to read that bunch of Polacks should be given the keys to Palestine because they were Jews instead of because they were murderous enough to get the Brits to leave.
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what a bigoted statement.

Matt- are you a Holocaust denier?
 
Mark the Hiker said:
I thought I recognized the name Matt Giwer. Just do a search on the name. He has been doing this since old Usenet days.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/g/giwer-matt/
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Absolutely correct. A bunch are crazies produced a lot of bullshucks but not a single one of them can be found on groups.google.com so what is the point of posting that crap.

Ad hominem is the only justification and only very stupid people resort to logical fallacies. You appear to be intelligent not stupid. Why do you post a link to lies?
 
Doctor Evil said:
The term racism is used to describe prejudice against groups based not only on race, but also on ethnicity or religion. Due to this, your response is meaningless.

As for my assertion, it was based on your crude description above. The Jews are not polaks, a derogatory term for the Polish people. Polish Jews were never accepted into Polish societey and certainly did not see themselves as part of the Polish people. Furthermore, Israeli Jews originated from many other places. Then there is also the silly way you presented the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, which the implication that the Jews were murderers. As a result, I happen to think that my observation was accurate.
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If what you say is true then Jewish Israelies are the most vile and bigoted racists in the western world. Its PM and and senior ministers, were they in the US or Britain or Germany would be forced to retire from public office were they to say such things.

I am surprised you would defend such people.
 
Thunder said:
what a bigoted statement.

Matt- are you a Holocaust denier?
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I have no idea. Please explain what you are talking about.

This is not a religion is it? So PLEASE tell me exactly what you are talking about.

I have problem with this. I once had an email exchange with Shermer of SciAm infamy where all he could do was ad hominem rather than physical evidence. I have no problem with discussing the matter but rather than poluting this thread please start a new thread as per the rules of JREF at least by implication.

You go first and post the physical evidence for your assertions not hearsay which does not differ from alien abduction stories.

I have no problem with this for any reason as long as the same rules for spiritualism, ghosts, psychic powers and all the rest apply equally to this hollywood holocaust thing.

Is there a special pleading for holocaustic matters that is different from alien abductions?

If not PLEASE start a new topic to post the physical evidence.

I have no interest in saying X is false because people Y. That is simply stupid.
 
Matt Giwer said:
Here is a big surprise for you. Poles are not a race. Jews nota race. Germans are not a race. Jews are not a race.

There is nothing racist in my post. Why do you make such an abviously false assertion?
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Although I hate to agree with you on anything, apparently, according to a lot of posters here, sometime back (I missed the memo) we quit limiting race to what the old etho- people had hammered out and eliminated races or made them pretty much anything you wish to call a race. Now, since the race thing as of any importance was whacked in the late 90's (the Vitamin D needs sun and the other compound needs dark, your group's location on Earth's surface (by latitude w/10 or 15 degree increments from the equator being the major determinant) determined the most obvious "racial" characteristic(s) it doesn't really enter into anything - other than for the incompetent mentally and/or morally.
 
Matt Giwer said:
If what you say is true then Jewish Israelies are the most vile and bigoted racists in the western world. Its PM and and senior ministers, were they in the US or Britain or Germany would be forced to retire from public office were they to say such things.

I am surprised you would defend such people.
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This make no sense whatsoever. It is completely unconnected to my response.
 
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