The "Nakba" Myth

So Ashkenazis are 'the Zionists' whilst the rest are not?

What is a ME descent anyways?

Middle east descent means any Homo Sapien who ever left Africa. It includes all of human races but the seven African races.

However the issue here is genetic distance and Koester's 13th Tribe was extremely popular among Jews before the zionists decided it had to be ignored for their invented Jewish nation to be a good talking point.
 
Middle east descent means any Homo Sapien who ever left Africa. It includes all of human races but the seven African races. .

great..are you gonna apply for Palestinian citizenship then?

However the issue here is genetic distance and Koester's 13th Tribe was extremely popular among Jews before the zionists decided it had to be ignored for their invented Jewish nation to be a good talking point.

this is a favorite book amoung anti-Semites and Neo-Nazis. and its pure bunk.

Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from the Khazars. its a stupid and disproven crackpot theory. Many Jews have Germanic names because soo many of us lived in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which is two thousand miles away from the Caucuses region.

just out of curiosity, do you believe that millions of Jews were deliberately exterminated by the Nazi regime during WW2?
 
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Ah, you're getting this from Rense.com. Now I know your impeccable source. :rolleyes:

I am getting it from Haaretz.com and jpost.com As you are unaware of it I suggest you start reading those news sources. The are the equivalent of the Washington Post and New York Times in the US.

I am amazed at the ignorance of Israel which has to have originated in total ignorance of Israeli sources of information.
 
Matt- just out of curiosity, do you believe that millions of Jews were deliberately exterminated by the Nazi regime during WW2?

i know this is a derail, but i just want to get a sense of who we are debating with.
 
great..are you gonna apply for Palestinian citizenship then?

Are you going to apply to apply for Israeli citizenship so you can become a war criminal?

this is a favorite book amoung anti-Semites and Neo-Nazis. and its pure bunk.

As I said it is now condemned by the Zionists. But when it was first published it was recommended to me by Jews. Sand in his "Invention of the Jewish People" recites the surviving physical evidence which he, as a historian at Tel Aviv University and a Jew and an Israeli the Khazar conversion story is correct.

I have no idea where you are coming from. Left field is too close.

Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from the Khazars. its a stupid and disproven crackpot theory. Many Jews have Germanic names because soo many of us lived in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which is two thousand miles away from the Caucuses region.

just out of curiosity, do you believe that millions of Jews were deliberately exterminated by the Nazi regime during WW2?

You must explain to Professor Sand why he is such an idiot and why you know more than he does. I presume it is reasonable for me to ask after your credentials as an historian.

I do realize this response is a an appeal to authority but it is in response to a baseless assertion of nonsense. So if you have a factual basis for your response I presume you will repair your error by posting that factual basis for your post.

In a pig's eye fo course but I must preserve the desired decorum of JREF.
 
I've noticed something Matt. You've made many, many claims. You have yet to provide supporting evidence for any of those claims.
 
great..are you gonna apply for Palestinian citizenship then?

Are you going to apply to apply for Israeli citizenship so you can become a war criminal?

this is a favorite book amoung anti-Semites and Neo-Nazis. and its pure bunk.

As I said it is now condemned by the Zionists. But when it was first published it was recommended to me by Jews. Sand in his "Invention of the Jewish People" recites the surviving physical evidence which he, as a historian at Tel Aviv University and a Jew and an Israeli the Khazar conversion story is correct.

I have no idea where you are coming from. Left field is too close.

Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from the Khazars. its a stupid and disproven crackpot theory. Many Jews have Germanic names because soo many of us lived in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which is two thousand miles away from the Caucuses region.

just out of curiosity, do you believe that millions of Jews were deliberately exterminated by the Nazi regime during WW2?

You must explain to Professor Sand why he is such an idiot and why you know more than he does. I presume it is reasonable for me to ask after your credentials as an historian.

I do realize this response is a an appeal to authority but it is in response to a baseless assertion of nonsense. So if you have a factual basis for your response I presume you will repair your error by posting that factual basis for your post.

In a pig's eye fo course but I must preserve the desired decorum of JREF.
 
I've noticed something Matt. You've made many, many claims. You have yet to provide supporting evidence for any of those claims.

I have noticed something too. That the assertions I am challenging are also without supporting evidence. The earliest claim is not an assumption of being correct and in need of refutation. If that were the case Dagan does rule the universe.
 
Are you going to apply to apply for Israeli citizenship so you can become a war criminal?

you consider all 5.5 million Israeli Jews, including children, to be "war criminals"?
As I said it is now condemned by the Zionists. But when it was first published it was recommended to me by Jews. Sand in his "Invention of the Jewish People" recites the surviving physical evidence which he, as a historian at Tel Aviv University and a Jew and an Israeli the Khazar conversion story is correct.

No. The Khazars may have converted to Judaism, and they may have merged into the MUCH larger Ashkenazi Jewish community, but no...most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from peoples of the Caucus region. There have been many books written and many genetic studies done, since Koester's silly book. Do you think research from 34 years ago is more valuable than research from 5 years ago?

Did Koester anaylze DNA records from Jews all over Europe, and compare those to Georgians, Armenians, and Azerbaijanis?
 
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Matt- just out of curiosity, do you believe that millions of Jews were deliberately exterminated by the Nazi regime during WW2?

i know this is a derail, but i just want to get a sense of who we are debating with.

This was called an Auto-de-Fey in the Spanish inquistion, the one made famous by Mel Brooks and Monty Python.

Yesterday my name was captioned New Blood. As you have seen that is not the same a Fresh Meat.

I direct your attention to the OP and suggest you try to stay on topic.

If you wish to start a discussion on the Shoah that is for you to do.
 
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you consider all 5.5 million Israeli Jews, including children, to be "war criminals"?

I would think it obvious those considered children in law are not considered criminals with their parents. Children have no choice. Adults do.

Is this the silliest trap you can devise or can you be sillier? Please do your silliest. All can use a good laugh.

No. The Khazars may have converted to Judaism, and they may have merged into the MUCH larger Ashkenazi Jewish community, but no...most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from peoples of the Caucus region. There have been many books written and many genetic studies done, since Koester's silly book. Do you think research from 80 years ago is more valuable than research from 5 years ago?

Gee. I get challenged for lack of citation and here is more assertion without citation.

Koestler is from the 80s. Sand in his Invention of the Jewish People confirms it.

Simply the idea of a "people" is a 19th c. invention which he expounds in tedious detail. Anachronism are not permitted. There could be no "people" before the idea existed.

Anachronism it the most obvious challenge to zionist nonsense.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jews#DNA_clues

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews

read up Matt, we are not descended from the Khazars.

and again, if we are descended from the Khazars, than why the hell do sooooo many of us have Germanic names?

there was no law forcing Jews in Southwestern Russia to adopt Germanic last name, but there was one in the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which before 1918 included millions of Europe's Jews.

Here is an elementary challenge. Stop appealing to authority and summarize the results.

Funny thing is, I can do that and you can not.

So I leave it to you to that and for me to ridicule your vain attempt.

Take all th time you need.
 
In June 2010, an article in Newsweek titled "The DNA Of Abraham's Children" addresses through genetic analysis the book's assertion that modern European Jews are descended from Khazars, a Turkic group, and not from the Middle East: "The DNA has spoken: no."[5] A New York Times article on the same studies notes they "refute the suggestion made last year by the historian Shlomo Sand in his book The Invention of the Jewish People that Jews have no common origin but are a miscellany of people in Europe and Central Asia who converted to Judaism at various times."[6] Michael Balter, reviewing the study in the journal Science, says the following:
... Shlomo Sand of Tel Aviv University in Israel argues in his book The Invention of the Jewish People, translated into English last year, that most modern Jews do not descend from the ancient Land of Israel but from groups that took on Jewish identities long afterward.
Such notions, however, clash with several recent studies suggesting that Jewishness, including the Ashkenazi version, has deep genetic roots. In what its authors claim is the most comprehensive study thus far, a team led by geneticist Harry Ostrer of the New York University School of Medicine concludes today that all three Jewish groups—Middle Eastern, Sephardic, and Ashkenazi—share genomewide genetic markers that distinguish them from other worldwide populations. [4]
 
In June 2010, an article in Newsweek titled "The DNA Of Abraham's Children" addresses through genetic analysis the book's assertion that modern European Jews are descended from Khazars, a Turkic group, and not from the Middle East: "The DNA has spoken: no."[5] A New York Times article on the same studies notes they "refute the suggestion made last year by the historian Shlomo Sand in his book The Invention of the Jewish People that Jews have no common origin but are a miscellany of people in Europe and Central Asia who converted to Judaism at various times."[6] Michael Balter, reviewing the study in the journal Science, says the following:
... Shlomo Sand of Tel Aviv University in Israel argues in his book The Invention of the Jewish People, translated into English last year, that most modern Jews do not descend from the ancient Land of Israel but from groups that took on Jewish identities long afterward.
Such notions, however, clash with several recent studies suggesting that Jewishness, including the Ashkenazi version, has deep genetic roots. In what its authors claim is the most comprehensive study thus far, a team led by geneticist Harry Ostrer of the New York University School of Medicine concludes today that all three Jewish groups—Middle Eastern, Sephardic, and Ashkenazi—share genomewide genetic markers that distinguish them from other worldwide populations. [4]

Let me get this straight. The only refutation you have is from journalism majors at Newsweek. Is that correct?

If I have missed any other source please include that in your reply.
 
Koestler wrote his book in 1976. Deal with the facts.

Mea culpa. My jewish friends have been recommending it me for a decade longer than I remembered. I assure you some of my best enemies are Jews so please spare me that lame response.
 
i'm sure there is no reason for that.

It beats saying some of my best friends.

I do not give a rat's ass what a person's religion is. All religions are equally stupid.

And please do not digress into nonsense about being born a Jew. Only a person who accepts Judaism would be dumb enough to make that argument.

Apologies but you do appear to be intelligent. I should assume you would never make such a dumb assertion.
 
And please do not digress into nonsense about being born a Jew. Only a person who accepts Judaism would be dumb enough to make that argument.

Um....I was born a Jew. That's cause my mom is a Jew.

what's is wrong with this concept? Muslims follow a similar idea.

and why do you keep derailing? this is a standard tactic of conspiracy theorists, and other folks who I will not mention..just yet.
 

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