Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
cmatrix said:
Ah so the energy comes from gravity. But all the gravitational potential energy (gravity to you) is used up for the free fall. Where is this extra magical gravity coming from? The tooth fairy? And I don't understand physics? Yeesh!
Click to expand...
You make delusions based on your lack of understanding of physics and reality. This is why your "analysis" is poppycock.

cmatrix said:
... And I don't understand physics? Yeesh!
Click to expand...
Is this the truth, or a trick question?

"You shall know the truth, and the truth will set you in free-fall," i will see your yeesh, and raise you a wowzer...
 
As an addendum to my last post above, the Dr Shaler interview is HERE. It's from the WNYC radio archives.

You can directly download the .mp3 file HERE. (Right click/save link as)

Dr. Shaler gives an interesting outline of the mechanics of the collection, analysis and identification of the DNA collected at Ground Zero.


Compus
 
cmatrix said:
Only the North face was in free fall? Where is the evidence for this? All video evidence shows the North, East and West faces falling at the same rate. Also no evidence whatsoever that the South face fell before. It definitely didn't fall slower as it is not seen behind the collapsing building. Most of the columns were intact before the collapse otherwise the building wouldn't have stood. The remaining columns had to be removed continuously floor by floor for 8 stories to attain free fall. Clearly a violation of the LOCOE. Does this make sense? I don't think I can dumb it down and more than I already have.
Click to expand...

NIST and Chandler both stated that the North Face fell for 2.25 seconds in free fall. Who said anything about the south face?

And no, you're not making a lick of sense. None whatsoever. I have already posted a comparison. Why is it that you refuse to accept what engineers and other qualified people have told you?
 
DGM said:
If this was true it wouldn't hurt when we fall and hit the ground.
Click to expand...

Yes the laws of physics definitely are true. What in the wide world of sports makes you think that converting all the available gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy means there will be no ground resistance? :jaw-dropp
 
cmatrix said:
But all the gravitational potential energy (gravity to you) is used up for the free fall.
Click to expand...


Incorrect. The WTC7 debris pile still had GPE; it was just somewhat less than the standing structure.

Where is this extra magical gravity coming from? The tooth fairy? And I don't understand physics? Yeesh!
Click to expand...


We're a very long way from Earth's center of mass and the center of its gravity field.
 
cmatrix said:
Converting all the available gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy violates the laws of thermodynamics? :jaw-dropp
Click to expand...


In your fantasy, yes. WTC7 didn't collapse to the center of the Earth, yet you claim all of its GPE was exhausted in its collapse.
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
Incorrect. The WTC7 debris pile still had GPE; it was just somewhat less than the standing structure.




We're a very long way from Earth's center of mass and the center of its gravity field.
Click to expand...

Uh there was no debris pile during the free fall period. During the free fall period all the available gravitational potential energy of the building was converted to kinetic energy otherwise it wouldn't be in free fall. That's what free fall is for pete's sake.
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
In your fantasy, yes. WTC7 didn't collapse to the center of the Earth, yet you claim all of its GPE was exhausted in its collapse.
Click to expand...

Yes, for the free fall period all the buildings available GPE was converted to kinetic energy. The building didn't fall to the center of the Earth because it eventually encountered resistance, the Earth, where it transferred the energy to do work. Why on Earth do you have a problem with this basic physics?
 
Last edited:
cmatrix said:
Yes the laws of physics definitely are true. What in the wide world of sports makes you think that converting all the available gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy means there will be no ground resistance? :jaw-dropp
Click to expand...

What makes you think a small portion of the exterior falling at "free fall speed" means anything to the collapse?

Are you aware almost all of the exterior in the WTC 1,2 fell "at free fall speed"?
 
cmatrix said:
Yes, for the free fall period all the buildings available GPE was converted to kinetic energy. The building didn't fall to the center of the Earth because it eventually encountered resistance, the Earth, where it transferred the energy to do work. Why on Earth do you have a problem with this basic physics?
Click to expand...

3bodyproblem said:
What makes you think a small portion of the exterior falling at "free fall speed" means anything to the collapse?

Are you aware almost all of the exterior in the WTC 1,2 fell "at free fall speed"?
Click to expand...

What makes you think only a "a small portion of the exterior" fell at free fall acceleration? I see the entire North, West and East side falling and absolutely no reason to assume the South wasn't also falling. That's basically the whole building still all connected together!
 
Last edited:
cmatrix said:
Ah so the energy comes from gravity. But all the gravitational potential energy (gravity to you) is used up for the free fall. Where is this extra magical gravity coming from? The tooth fairy? And I don't understand physics? Yeesh!
Click to expand...

Tell me cmatrix, since the measurements done by NIST, Chandler and poster on this very forum who also believes that WTC 7 was brought down by means other than fire and gravity (femr) , all indicate a period of acelleration that actually EXCEEDS that due to gravity, what do you make of that?

Here's the thing;
A )the ONLY way for that acelleration to truly be greater than g would be to have another force acting downwards.(otherwise it contravenes Newton's Second Law of Motion)
OR
B) the margin or error in the measurements is at least as great as the difference between this measured acelleration and g.

If "A" is the case it would be extrodinary that no one noticed the hand of God pushing down on the roof top. Seriously, if this is to be regarded as the case then it is encumbant upon thise who believe so to come up with a viable proposal for this added force. It COULD NOT come from thermite, it COULD NOT come from explosives within the building.


If it is "B" then this is simply the lower limit on that margin of error(about 1% of g IIRRC) but one cannot say for certain that it is not an error margin of 5 or 10 % of g in which case the true acelleration may well have been 0.9g or 0.95g

I started a thread in which I questioned Chandler's handling of the margin or error(he ignores it).
femr has done a more detailed analysis than Chandler did and he finds that the rooftop actually sank, bounced up above its original level then started down again.

One speculation is that the building suddenly sank a few feet and rebounded. All floors would then act as a spring and return from that rebound with the added force of the initial fall(just as when you compress a spring and let it go it rebounds with the energy stored from the compression) and then again begin dowrads with again the added force of this spring. At this point then we now have an condition in which the rooftop is above its original level, and is already moving when it again passes that original level. This is the last insult the structure can take and it now fails globally in the lower floors where the most damage has already taken place. Since it began its last downward travel at greater than g, the slope of a graph of velocity vs. time will show an acelleration of g or greater.

Since you know so much physics you will know how much such an initial acelleration not due to gravity alone will affect all future measurements of distance travelled over set time spans.
It will greatly affect the slope of the velocity vs. time graph

Chandler simply ignores all of this and takes a giant leap and concludes that since his measurements show a>g that a=g at the very least. Only a moron physicist would make such a conclusion but in Chandler's case that's OK since he is NOT a physicist anyway.

Chandler then also comes up with but one 'explanation' for a=g, explosive demolitions of the columns at the 8th floor.
Once again then he is ignoring high school physics and,,,,, wait for it,,, the conservation of momentum that would dictate that in order to have a free fall of 8 floors height then all columns must be removed at all 8 floors simultaneously. He also simply cannot be bothered to look for any other explanation instead relying on his political world view to supply the requirement of a giant conspiracy.

In that last point you are like Chandler but at least he sort or tried to make a case based on science.
 
cmatrix said:
What makes you think only a "a small portion of the exterior" fell at free fall acceleration? I see the entire North, West and East side falling and absolutely no reason to assume the South wasn't also falling. That's basically the whole building still all connected together!
Click to expand...

Actually the measurements were done on only a few points of the north face including the NW and NE corners.

Although the whole structure does appear to begin moving downwards at about the same time, an analysis shows that some points do lag behind others.

I would rephrase the point and ask why you think that a very small time span of the entire collapse sequence means anything about what caused the collapse?

ETA: Wowsers! I was answering a post on page 5 of a thread and wound up on page 73 of another thread. A clear contravention of the conservation laws of fisicks. Probably that improbability drive I have in storage in the basement. It switches on sometimes when it gets really humid.
 
Last edited:
cmatrix said:
What makes you think only a "a small portion of the exterior" fell at free fall acceleration? I see the entire North, West and East side falling and absolutely no reason to assume the South wasn't also falling. That's basically the whole building still all connected together!
Click to expand...

femr2 said:
Here is a draft trace of the position of the window immediately below the NE corner, and the NW corner...

325296455.png
Click to expand...


According to femr2 they do not drop simultaneously
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom