Merged Lockerbie bomber alive after 9 months

Sorry, I could probably have found it sooner. I just can't get that aerated about the exact identity of the doctor who provided the acceptable prognosis.

There was quite a bit of annoyance at the time that more specialist doctors apparently hadn't been consulted, but this wasn't about Karol Sikora, it was about Andrew Fraser being "the single doctor" whose opinion was relied on. A doctor who was part of the establishment, employed by the prison service.

Karol Sikora was on TV, sounding impressive, but he was only the consultant retained by Libya, and nobody was under any obligation to listen to him. I think it was more of an ego-trip than anything.

Rolfe.

I think I mostly get it now. The confusion around this is noteworthy. Somehow much or most of the public has been left confused. "The one doctor" became Sikora. Hell, I wrote up half an article based on that premise, just from not knowing and being bombarded with so many repetitions of that presumption. This will need to be explained over here.
 
On a closer look, Rolfe, it seems the "one doctor" cited by Simpson, "one anonymous source" cited by Aitken, etc. is other than the non-anonymous Dr. Fraser. One source says all four docs on the panel said he wasn't sick enough to go home, but Fraser overrode them all. Most sources agree one doctor dissented. One report in the Scotsman says Sikora sided with the majority against saying three months. That'sprobablyan error. The first link, Daily Record, has this:
On August 20, the day before MacAskill announced Megrahi's release, a cancer specialist asked by Libya to examine the bomber told the minister to make an "urgent" decision.
Professor Karol Sikora said: "We believe he has only a very short period of time to live."
Sikora said he visited Megrahi in Greenock jail on July 28, along with Professor Ibrahim Sheriff from the Tripoli medical centre and Dr Abdulrahman Swessi, Libya's consul-general in Scotland.

The rest suggest the anonymous one of four that Fraser app. cited was in fact Sikora. So I don't have to correct everyone after all.

FWIW The Times provides a short redacted report in PDF

None of this is the biggest point, but I was annoyed at how little I knew. Better now.
 
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Also, these knucklehead Senators are now demanding Sec. Clinton pressures someone or other to make Megrahi go back to jail until he's dead.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/201...as_state_dept_want_scotts_to_put_almegr.html#

AFTER SCOTTISH GOVERNMENT REFUSES TO REINVESTIGATE EARLY RELEASE OF LOCKERBIE BOMBER:

SCHUMER, MENENDEZ CALL ON STATE DEPARTMENT TO PRESSURE LONDON TO RETURN LOCKERBIE BOMBER TO PRISON; AL-MEGRAHI WAS GIVEN 'THREE MONTHS TO LIVE' - REPORTS SAY TERRORIST COULD LIVE ANOTHER TEN

My response:
http://lockerbiedivide.blogspot.com/2010/07/is-schumer-shrooming-return-megrahi-to.html
"Schumer and Menendez noted the release of al-Megrahi was predicated on his only have [sic] three months to live, yet the doctor who examined him now suggests the bomber of Pan Am flight 103 may well live for another ten years."
He said there was "always a chance" of this, but it is "unusual" and, by extension, highly unlikely. Megrahi has cancer of the pelvis now too, among other things, and no medicine but a morphine drip. That's a real-world sign of the end, compared to words from an apparent charlatan. The Senators have chosen, and have set about making it noisy.
 
It's all hot air. NOBODY is going to piss off Gadaffi by demanding Megrahi's extradition. What are they going to do? Send in gunboats to get him? Because make no mistake about it, that's what they'd have to do.

They're just making noises in the hope of showing the voters how tough they are. Too bad nobody's listening. I could happily throttle Karol Sikora though. It's obvious that the "ten years" was a throwaway remark, along the lines of, well, Stephen Hawking has lived more than 40 years beyond his prognosis so anything's possible. But certain people with axes to grind have latched on to it. Which was more or less predictable. Has the man NO sense? (Answer, apparently not.)

Rolfe.
 
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Lockerbie bomber freed due to pressure from BP?????

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upsho...-role-in-the-release-of-a-notorious-terrorist

Oh man...if this is true...I am totally boycotting BP.

What a disgusting public relations problem they have.

"Large oil company makes hundreds of oil rig errors and violations, dumps 100 million gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, and convinces the British government to release a terrorist killer in order to secure an oil contract."
 
It's all hot air. NOBODY is going to piss off Gadaffi by demanding Megrahi's extradition. What are they going to do? Send in gunboats to get him? Because make no mistake about it, that's what they'd have to do.

Well the last british gunboat left service in 1926 and aparently wasn't in a very good condition by that point. On the other hand this is Gadaffi we are talking about so a couple of machine guns strapped onto a power boat would probably do the trick.
 
Well, it was the gung-ho Yanks I was talking about. Nobody in Blighty is going to fetch him, that's for sure.

They could have sent the Vincennes if it had still been in commission....

Rolfe.
 
Your posts are very informative rolfe.

I wonder what exactly the american relatives believed their 3 million in tax payers money was paid to the 2 brothers now living in australia was for.

How can anyones testimony be taken seriously when they are being paid 2 million to give it.
 
It's all very murky. The first witness who was bribed to give evidence against both Megrahi and Fhimah was a guy called Majid Giaka. He was a Libyan garage mechanic who fancied a cushy life as a CIA asset and informer. The trouble was, he didn't have a lot of useful information to give for the $1500 a month (plus benefits in kind) he was being paid by the Americans.

At first, when he was pushed for intelligence relating to Lockerbie, he had nothing to say, but later, after the CIA had threatened to dump him without a penny, he suddenly "remembered" that he'd seen both suspects making the bomb and putting it on the plane. He was the star witness who would deliver the conviction.

However, during the trial, the defence was successful in having the unedited versions of a lot of CIA telexes admitted in evidence, and once the blacked-out parts were visible it was clear the US authorities had knowingly put forward a witness who was making stuff up for money. The judges disallowed his testimony, but somehow managed to convict anyway. For no reason I can see, nobody criticised the US input for this, or harboured any suspicions that perhaps other parts of the evidence had been a bit sexed-up as well.

Gauci's evidence was odd, because while it seems fairly clear he really did sell the clothes that were in the bomb bag, the day he seemed most likely to have made that sale was a day Megrahi wasn't in Malta. In addition, his original description of the man didn't describe Megrahi - the face might have been a reasonable fit for him (or for about a squillion other people), but the age, height and build were way out. This from a man who was well used to judging people by what size clothes would fit them.

The prosecution appear to have tortured the evidence to breaking point to make Gauci's description fit a day when Megrahi was in the town, and to get him to pick out Megrahi as the purchaser, in photo-lineups. By the time he finally saw Megrahi in the flesh, half the population of the western world could probably have picked him out, so widespread had been the publicity, but the best Gauci could manage was, “Not exactly the man I saw in the shop. Ten years ago I saw him, but the man who look a little bit like exactly is the number 5.”

The judges bought it. They even said they were impressed by his uncertainty, as it showed he was genuinely trying to remember! The appeal judges said, the court was entitled to take that view, appeal dismissed.

Even during the investigation, the Scottish police were offering Tony Gauci holidays in Scotland and other inducements to keep him on-side. His brother Paul, initially hostile to the investigation, began to get very interested in a reward. There have been a lot of weasel words about nobody having been promised any money before the trial, but it's now common knowledge Tony got $2 million and Paul $1 million. I thought Paul (who didn't give evidence) had been rewarded for his part in establishing the day of the purchase, but in fact he gave a clear statement at one stage (not presented to the court) that the date was the day Megrahi wasn't there.

I'm not sure where to look for the link now, but the rationale for paying Paul was given as reward for his role in keeping Tony (who was a bit simple) up to scratch. In fact Paul was quite clearly coaching Tony to provide the evidence the police wanted. I can't remember exactly where this information originated, but there's no dispute the pair of them recently moved to Australia and have a very luxurious lifestyle.

I don't think the US relatives have a clue about any of this. They're getting their information from Duggan, who seems simply to be making up whatever he thinks will keep the level of outrage in the USA at satisfyingly high levels. The money might even have come out of the $2.7 billion Gadaffi paid out in order for Libya to be allowed to rejoin the civilised world. But in any case, it's peanuts compared to the budget the CIA has for running informers and paying out for information received.

I'm 100% sure that conviction should never have been brought, on the basis of "beyond reasonable doubt". Anyone who wants to understand this should read the judgements. I'm 99.99% sure the appeal that was abandoned would have succeeded, in the light of the new evidence that was available (including that Gauci was bribed). I'm about 95% sure Megrahi didn't do it - the 5% because I don't know who did, and not knowing that, it's hard to dismiss any possibility out of hand.

I just re-watched the 2008 BBC documentary on this - The Conspiracy Files. This programme has a format where it builds up a conspiracy, then shows how it's all complete nonsense. Except it doesn't pan out that way in this episode. The half is not told in that programme, as far as the dodginess of some of the evidence is concerned (well, they only had an hour!), but in the end they conclude that the appeal hearings will reveal the real truth.

The appeal Megrahi had to abandon in order to be allowed to return home to die. The appeal that would probably have been concluded by now, if he'd stayed in jail in Scotland. But he was released 11 months ago, being told he only had 3 months to live, when the date for the appeal coming back to court was 3 months from the date of his release.

Frankly, the scandal here is that a dying man was told he wouldn't live to see his appeal come to court, but if he agreed to abandon the appeal he could go home to spend his last three months with his family. He's on record as saying he desperately wanted to clear his name, but given that he was terminally ill he couldn't take any more and was desperate to get home.

The timing of the release was awfully convenient for the authorities who had shown every indication of not wanting that appeal to happen, who were also the authorities who had the power to grant the compassionate release. If people are wondering why it seems it might have been a bit premature, this is the aspect that might be considered.

Rolfe.
 
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Thanks again.

I only live in the isle of man so it wasn't far away where the plane came down really.

I heard most of what you say years ago, but you provide a fuller more detailed version, and i can tell its factually correct, as you are not being bombarded with juvenile posts.

Very interesting tho, but most americans will never buy it that the Good ol Guys of the CIA were behind setting him up, rather than direct confrontation with Iran at the time.
Clearly revenge on Irans part, but still an act of war, if what you say is/turns out to be absolutely true, they are brainwashed with the patriotism gig, and their government doesn't lie to them, so they will never buy it.

eta
most.
 
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Well, in a way, who cares? I live about 50 miles from where the plane went down. Nobody is talking about this on a daily basis. A pretty high proportion of people don't think Megrahi did it anyway, so aren't inclined to foaming outrage about it all.

It doesn't matter what the Americans think. Nobody is going to Libya to re-arrest Megrahi. A bunch of loud-mouth Yank politicos spouting off a lot of nonsense to make themselves look tough to the voters doesn't even register in Scotland.

Rolfe.
 
The threads in CT where we're trying to figure out what the hell did happen are more interesting really, though long-winded as we brainstorm ideas that don't really gel, and completely ignore good points for six months before getting back to them.... And far too few people taking an interest, too, even though there's lots of time to dedicate to debunking "9/11 was an inside job" or "the moon landings were faked" and similar fish-in-a-barrel arguments.

I've got my brain round the actualite of much of the evidence now (there's a lot out there that's just plain wrong, from misreporting over the years), with the notable exception of the Frankfurt baggage records part, which is just surreal. What I can't decide is, did the investigators just see the physical evidence they had, decide that there were enough coincidences that could be milked to make a case for Megrahi having done it, then bribe a couple of people to make sure of a conviction, or was some of the actual physical evidence fiddled with?

I don't know, but there are a few serious pointers to the latter, which is a whole other can of worms.

Rolfe.
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upsho...-role-in-the-release-of-a-notorious-terrorist

Oh man...if this is true...I am totally boycotting BP.

What a disgusting public relations problem they have.

"Large oil company makes hundreds of oil rig errors and violations, dumps 100 million gallons of oil into the Gulf of Mexico, and convinces the British government to release a terrorist killer in order to secure an oil contract."

Meghari didn't kill anyone.


Well, not those particular anyones, at any rate.
 
I really didn't know much about this case when he was released but from participating in various threads at the time I came to the conclusion that rolfe has stated. As far as I have seen hardly anyone in the US (and just about no one in the media here) knows any details about the case except that Megrahi was convicted so that means he's guilty. There haven't been any programs like that one on the BBC that really looks into the whole story. No one really thinks there is a conspiracy here except about the recent revelations such as Megrahi living longer than expected and that BP got him released. The government hasn't brainwashed anyone. People seemed to accept the verdict and there was no further discussion. He was found guilty so he's a mass murdering terrorist. Period. That's how he's referred to in most news stories. I don't think people are aware of all the shenanigans involved in the prosecution. If anything it's the fault of the US media which never dug in and did an extensive investigation of the whole saga.
 
Thanks again.

Very interesting tho, but most americans will never buy it that the Good ol Guys of the CIA were behind setting him up, rather than direct confrontation with Iran at the time.
Clearly revenge on Irans part, but still an act of war, if what you say is/turns out to be absolutely true, they are brainwashed with the patriotism gig, and their government doesn't lie to them, so they will never buy it.

eta
most.

That's too true. I live over here on the big island. Fightin from the inside. It's a bricks wall. Originally they had an attack brought on by their own military's recklessness in the Persian Gulf, an embarrassing airport security failure at Heathrow, supposed assets implicated in the crime, a nation as large as Iran behind it, with escalation of the usual sort being - erm, problematic.

What makes America great is innovation and enterprise. Invent something new, bold audacious. A descendent of Italian immigrants (with some history re: lLibya I hear) named Vincent cannistraro decided swiftly that the embarrassing case COULD be re-wired up as the ultimo boom box to blast Libyan guilt for propaganda and leverage purposes.

By now, they've got the fact that they made that decision, carried it out, and have actually bluffed it through til the present. NO FRIGGIN WAY can that be allowed to come to light, says the center, and lo and behold it does not.

Hope that answered your - wait,you didn't ask a question. :confused:

I really didn't know much about this case when he was released but from participating in various threads at the time I came to the conclusion that rolfe has stated. As far as I have seen hardly anyone in the US (and just about no one in the media here) knows any details about the case except that Megrahi was convicted so that means he's guilty.
That's just howwe are here, suckers for legal rulings. If a judge says O.J. is innocent, by golly, America celebrates the clearing of a sports legend. It's in our red ol' blood. :confused:

There haven't been any programs like that one on the BBC that really looks into the whole story. No one really thinks there is a conspiracy here except about the recent revelations such as Megrahi living longer than expected and that BP got him released.
To be fair, This one is quite decent all around, and hits hard on a good spot - the plausibility of that timer fragment.

The government hasn't brainwashed anyone. People seemed to accept the verdict and there was no further discussion. He was found guilty so he's a mass murdering terrorist. Period. That's how he's referred to in most news stories. I don't think people are aware of all the shenanigans involved in the prosecution. If anything it's the fault of the US media which never dug in and did an extensive investigation of the whole saga.

They say it's 'corporate control," and that sounds a little woo-ish, but whatever it is,the media feeds our brains and we're a malnourished lot somehow.
 
Meghari didn't kill anyone.

Well, not those particular anyones, at any rate.


I hope the mods can do a merge on this, because the idea of starting this extremely complex discussion again from the beginning in doing my head in.

Any connection between BP and Megrahi's release is tenuous and at arm's length. The release is a CT all of its own, for completely different reasons. The principal one being that he was pressurised to withdraw his appeal against the conviction in order to be granted release - an appeal which would probably have been concluded by now if he'd stayed in jail and let it go forward. An appeal he'd almost certainly have won, to the huge embarrassment of everybody else concerned.

The fact that the Westminster government was fairly keen on him being released because they'd made some promises they couldn't actually deliver on to that effect while negotiating an oil deal relating to BP in 2007 just facilitated the process.

And yes, he was Libyan security officer. Who knows what he did. He says he didn't kill anyone, that he was involved in sanctions-running - acquiring aviation parts for LAA against the sanctions that were in force against Libya at that time. What he almost certainly didn't do was put the bomb on the plane that blew up over Lockerbie.

Rolfe.
 
I don't think this current furore linking the Lockerbie affair to BP is worth wasting electrons on. It's been whipped up out of almost nothing, in the wake of the gulf oil leak. Like most baseless publicity-mongering, it's likely to be a nine-day wonder that fizzles out when the world moves on.

This morning the radio news in Scotland reported that al-Megrahi is off all chemotherapy and is only receiving palliative care. This usually describes a cancer patient in the terminal stages. We've heard similar stories before, but not so officially. It could be that this is again Libya manipulating the news to take the heat off, but let's face it, the guy has aggressive metastatic carcinoma of the prostate. This story probably has a relatively short shelf-life.

(Cue the CT that says they announced his death and held a funeral with a substitute corpse to let Megrahi go off and start a new life with a new identity.... you heard it here first, folks!)

Rolfe.
 
Too busy posting here to read my newspaper!

Megrahi is so ill he could die if he gets a cold

Lucy Adams said:
According to the latest bulletin about his condition, all treatment for prostate cancer has stopped and he is now receiving only palliative care.
Doctors are also said to be concerned that he is struggling to come to terms with his prognosis. [....]

Last month Professor Karol Sikora, who examined Megrahi last summer and gave him less than three months to live, said he could last for up 10 years. Sikora was one of three doctors paid for by the Libyan Government to examine Megrahi.
However, his report has never been read by Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill, who was pilloried internationally for choosing to grant him compassionate release. MacAskill made the decision based on a report by Dr Andrew Fraser, head of health at the Scottish Prison Service, which had itself been based upon the expert opinions of at least two UK consultants and the prison doctor.
A source said: “We’re told that he could survive beyond August 18, but equally that a cold could finish him off. He is extremely unwell and is now only receiving palliative care.” [....]

Megrahi was granted fresh leave to appeal in June 2007, based on the three-and-a-half-year probe by the Scottish Criminal Cases Review Commission, but the appeal suffered delays and last summer he dropped the case to improve his chances of returning home to Libya.


And the lead editorial. Decision to release Megrahi was correct

In fact, MacAskill chose his words very carefully. His statement read: “A three-month prognosis is now a reasonable estimate,” adding the rider: “He may die sooner – he may live longer.” In the event, the latter has prevailed, though news from Tripoli in recent days suggests Megrahi will die soon and is subject only to palliative care.
The fact that he has defied estimates of his limited life expectancy made at the time of his release in no way invalidates the Justice Secretary’s decision. Had Megrahi remained in Greenock Prison, he could not have received the treatment and care that a cancer patient requires. [....]

MacAskill should not feel embarrassed that Megrahi has managed to cling to life for longer than his doctors expected. If he turns out to have been innocent, the decision not to compel him to die in prison and in pain will be deemed just as well as compassionate.


This is the reporting of journalists actually familiar with the evidence and the issues in this case. Lucy Adams has travelled to Tripoli to interview Megrahi.

It's a pity the Channel 4 news item I just watched hadn't done a bit more probing. That was just US senators making baseless accusations, with a couple of actual US Lockerbie relatives as Male and Female Chorus. Though to be fair, some penetrating questions were asked and nothing came back but bluster.

Rolfe.
 

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