Time to end the Cuba embargo?

Yes it should be lifted, I'm not sure sanctions,embargo's work anyway really do they?

There'll always be someone willing to buy or sell to any country and they just use the sanctions,embargo as a scapegoat it seems.
 
Pardalis said:
How very forgiving. :rolleyes:

If Obama got sick and Gates took control of his office, you'd be screaming your head off.

But I guess Cuba is a special place.
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Well, yes, the Cuban system of government is different from the American one. I thought that was rather obvious. :confused:
 
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Cleon said:
Well, yes, the Cuban system of government is different from the American one. I thought that was rather obvious. :confused:
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Yes, a military dictatorship is a "different" system of government... I guess. :rolleyes:

Maybe we all should take your attitude as an example, we should all give up on the Cubans and their rights and just say "We can't do anything about it, it's their government, it's their 'way'".

It's a "different" system of government. Vive la différence!
 
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Pardalis said:
Yes, a military dictatorship is a "different" system of government... I guess. :rolleyes:
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From the American system? Uh, yes. Yes, it is. Again, I figured this was rather obvious. :confused:

Maybe we all should take your attitude as an example, we should all give up on the Cubans and their rights and just say "We can't do anything about it, it's their government, it's their 'way'".
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What the hell are you going on about? What attitude? :confused:

Fundamentally, the nature of the Cuban government hasn't changed with Raul's installation as President. That's simply the reality of the situation. It's no more (or less) a military dictatorship now than it was when Fidel was President.

I have no idea what position you're attributing to me, but it doesn't appear connected to anything I've actually posted.
 
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You're right, we should accept them as they are, and openly trade with them. It doesn't matter if they abuse human rights and don't allow free speech and democracy.

Let's just call it "cultural diversity".
 
Pardalis said:
Yes, a military dictatorship is a "different" system of government... I guess. :rolleyes:

Maybe we all should take your attitude as an example, we should all give up on the Cubans and their rights and just say "We can't do anything about it, it's their government, it's their 'way'".

It's a "different" system of government. Vive la différence!
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I understand you can have English language signs in Cuba at any size you want. :duck:
 
Pardalis said:
You're right, we should accept them as they are, and openly trade with them. It doesn't matter if they abuse human rights and don't allow free speech and democracy.

Let's just call it "cultural diversity".
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How does this follow?

Second, shouldn't policy toward Cuba be to do what will ease/open their society up and break the hold of the single party state on information? The embargo has had little or no success. The Castros are firmly in power. The way to break their hold, in this particular case, is to trade.

I'm not quite sure what your advocating here. Keep the status quo? How is that doing anything to shake up the Cuban system...especially now that Chavez is keeping it alive?
 
headscratcher4 said:
Second, shouldn't policy toward Cuba be to do what will ease/open their society up and break the hold of the single party state on information? The embargo has had little or no success. The Castros are firmly in power. The way to break their hold, in this particular case, is to trade.
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No, it would give legitimacy to a corrupt regime who breaks human rights like it was a bodily function. The US has an embargo on Sudan, Burma and North Korea for basically the same reason. Should the US open trade with them, hoping they'll get better?
 
Pardalis said:
No, it would give legitimacy to a corrupt regime who breaks human rights like it was a bodily function. The US has an embargo on Sudan, Burma and North Korea for basically the same reason. Should the US open trade with them, hoping they'll get better?
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No. The embargo, as Virus pointed out, has nothing to do with human rights whatsoever. Never has. Hell, compared to China (to say nothing of the DPRK), Cuba is a bastion of human rights and democracy.

Pretending that it's about human rights might make for great emotional rhetoric, but it's not based on reality.
 
Cleon said:
No. The embargo, as Virus pointed out, has nothing to do with human rights whatsoever. Never has.
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It may have been what triggered it, but it's what kept the embargo going.

http://www.state.gov/www/regions/wha/cuba/democ_act_1992.html

SEC. 1703. STATEMENT OF POLICY.


It should be the policy of the United States --

  1. to seek a peaceful transition to democracy and a resumption of economic growth in Cuba through the careful application of sanctions directed at the Castro government and support for the Cuban people;
  2. to seek the cooperation of other democratic countries in this policy;
  3. to make clear to other countries that, in determining its relations with them, the United States will take into account their willingness to cooperate in such a policy;
  4. to seek the speedy termination of any remaining military or technical assistance, subsidies, or other forms of assistance to the Government of Cuba from any of the independent states of the former Soviet Union;
  5. to continue vigorously to oppose the human rights violations of the Castro regime;
  6. to maintain sanctions on the Castro regime so long as it continues to refuse to move toward democratization and greater respect for human rights;
  7. to be prepared to reduce the sanctions in carfully calibrated ways in response to positive developments in Cuba;
  8. to encourage free and fair elections to determine Cuba's political future;
  9. to request the speedy termination of any military or technical assistance, subsidies, or other forms of assistance to the Government of Cuba from the government of any other country; and
  10. to initate immediately the development of a comprehensive United States policy toward Cuba in a post-Castro era.
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That's reality for you.

You're welcome.
 
if the embargo was about human rights, we would have an embargo against China, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Belarus, etc etc.
 
Pardalis said:
It may have been what triggered it, but it's what kept the embargo going.
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Nope. Again, it's a nice emotional justification, but not based on reality. What keeps the embargo going is a lack of politicians willing to actually change it.

We've traded with far worse regimes than Cuba before and since the Revolution. The human rights excuse just doesn't pass the laugh test.
 
Pardalis said:
Have you read the link I posted?

It's a nice little piece of reality.
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Have you read what I've posted? It's actual reality, not the way you wish things were.

China, Saudi Arabia...Again, reality. Not the idealism you believe in.

Now that's an emotional appeal.
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Uh, no, it isn't. It's simply political reality. Inertia is the rule rather than the exception.

But then, you're Canadian. Which makes this "conversation" really entertaining, if nothing else.
 
Cleon said:
Have you read what I've posted? It's actual reality, not the way you wish things were.
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http://www.state.gov/www/regions/wha/cuba/democ_act_1992.html

It's an act by the Department of State of the United States of America. I had nothing to do with it, I swear.

Uh, no, it isn't. It's simply political reality. Inertia is the rule rather than the exception.
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That's your personal interpretation.

But then, you're Canadian. Which makes this "conversation" really entertaining, if nothing else.
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Thanks.
 
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Pardalis said:
It's an act by the Department of State of the United States of America.
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...But the embargo is not. The various legislation regulating the embargo (Toricelli Act, Helms-Burton, etc) are much more concerned with issues of US property than with "human rights."

I notice you keep intentionally clipping out the inconvenient points about trade with countries like China and Saudi Arabia. Ignore it as much as you want, it doesn't magically disappear.
 
Indeed. The USA has billions in trade with China...regardless of their pathetic human rights record.

Clearly, the Cuba embargo is about politics and pandering, and not human rights.
 
Pardalis said:
Yes, I know, it's no news to me that the US has a fairly more solid backbone than Canada.
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ahhh....that's why we have billions in trade with China!!

that's why we do lots of business with Saudi Arabia!!

because of our "solid backbone". thanx man.


;)
 
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