Examples of U.S. Soverign Citizen (Freeman on the Land) Failures

[Mojo]

I'm worried one of my wife's friend's husband will get into this. She just retired and her husband is about 10 years older, has health issues (he's obese and diabetic) and he sits at home all day reading the web. Apparently he's getting into a lot of far right wing doomsday websites and has starting talking about how "the balloon is going up" and they need to pull all their money out of banks, buy gold, etc, etc. She can't drag him away from the computer, that's all he wants to do all day. He won't even come out to have lunch with his own wife. He just sits and reads and stews. The wife was planning on a nice retirement: they have a nice small farm, horses, like to travel, etc. That doesn't seem likely now as things stand.

There's some obvious signs here of things like depression, etc. My immediate worry is that the husband will go from "buy gold" and buy into the entire paranoid worldview and risk their home and farm on some anti-tax nut scheme. I'm thinking I might want to pass her some info about the "Freeman" and anti-tax loons. thoughts?


(and my wife has already suggested she get him to a doctor for a checkup)

Send him here.

 

[jargon buster]

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100618/bc_legal_person_case_100618/20100618

 

[Horatius]

Sweet.

 

[Bluekush623]

I see it's been nine days since the thread's resident FOTL spokesman has posted in this thread. He's not suspended and his last activity was only a few hours ago, so I can only assume that like Sir Robin of old he has bravely run away. Looks like he's not too interested in contracting with people who ask questions.

No one has run away, im just simply back to ignoring the ignorance here.

No one is about a true discussion. You guys are living in a illusion of make believe laws and you refuse to see beyond the stage.

 

[Ladewig]

No one has run away, im just simply back to ignoring the ignorance here.

No one is about a true discussion. You guys are living in a illusion of make believe laws and you refuse to see beyond the stage.

Hold on. I brought up a sincere, serious point of discussion and was ignored by you.

Like I said you cant bunch the bad with the good. The overall general consensus here is that FOTL is woo. However only a small sect of the FOTL is doing it out of bad/woo intention.

I claimed that the clear majority of FOTL sites do not follow your definition and are instead frauds and con artists seeking to escape debts and crimes. I can easily provide websites showing this to be the case. You have claimed it is only a small sect. Prove it. Please provide any sort of evidence that those FOTL are outnumbered by your FOTL.

I am ready to shed my ignorance. Let me know where to find the true FOTL websites.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

No one is about a true discussion.

I must join Ladewig in protest of this sentence. You and I were engaged in a serious, civil discourse before your disappearance. Here's where we left off...

Fair enough. Now explain why reaping the benefits of living within a society should not constitute consent to be governed by its rules.

reaping what benefits?

Security, for one.

 

[Bluekush623]

Hold on. I brought up a sincere, serious point of discussion and was ignored by you.

I claimed that the clear majority of FOTL sites do not follow your definition and are instead frauds and con artists seeking to escape debts and crimes. I can easily provide websites showing this to be the case. You have claimed it is only a small sect. Prove it. Please provide any sort of evidence that those FOTL are outnumbered by your FOTL.

I am ready to shed my ignorance. Let me know where to find the true FOTL websites.

This is moot and has no relevance to whether or not being a Freeman is legit.

There are frauds and loonies in Every sector of society (Government/Police Department/Banking Industry). This doesn't mean that the whole group is guilty.

 

[Bluekush623]

I must join Ladewig in protest of this sentence. You and I were engaged in a serious, civil discourse before your disappearance. Here's where we left off...

Security, for one.

I didnt answer because your using a bait tactic to where i enter your discussion about security and then you bring up roads and water. (As it has happened before).

Security is also a very broad term that has many definitions and variables which changes the path of the discussion.

So i will keep it simple...

No one if forced to work in America.

Social Security is NOT illegal to not have.

So its not "illegal" to not pay taxes and thus not illegal to benefit from the trickle down of what other people want, in this case "security".

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

I didnt answer because your using a bait tactic to where i enter your discussion about security and then you bring up roads and water. (As it has happened before).

Well, roads and water are other benefits, true, but I was not trying to bait you. I am perfectly happy to restrict the discussion to just security, if you like. The fact that you benefit at all from living among society is all I wish to demonstrate; I have no particular wish to elucidate all the myriad ways in which you so benefit.

So, I would prefer if you would do one of the two following things:

• Explain to me how you do not benefit from society
• Explain to me why, if you do benefit from society, you should not have to give anything back, as it were

Of course, I cannot make you do either of those things. You can always ignore me, but you will ignore me, at least, only after I have made as great an effort as I can to show you that my intentions have nothing to do with "baiting" you.

 

[kerikiwi]

No one if forced to work in America.

Social Security is NOT illegal to not have.

So its not "illegal" to not pay taxes and thus not illegal to benefit from the trickle down of what other people want, in this case "security".

The highlighted section is not a logical progression from the preceding statements.

 

[Ladewig]

This is moot and has no relevance to whether or not being a Freeman is legit.

There are frauds and loonies in Every sector of society (Government/Police Department/Banking Industry). This doesn't mean that the whole group is guilty.

So you make a claim. I ask for evidence of that claim and you tell me that providing evidence of your claims is of no relevance. Fine, I concede the point.

I still have no idea where to find a website describing the true and genuine FOTL. Will you provide information about what you believe or not?

 

[Bluekush623]

Well, roads and water are other benefits, true, but I was not trying to bait you. I am perfectly happy to restrict the discussion to just security, if you like. The fact that you benefit at all from living among society is all I wish to demonstrate; I have no particular wish to elucidate all the myriad ways in which you so benefit.

So, I would prefer if you would do one of the two following things:

• Explain to me how you do not benefit from society
• Explain to me why, if you do benefit from society, you should not have to give anything back, as it were

Of course, I cannot make you do either of those things. You can always ignore me, but you will ignore me, at least, only after I have made as great an effort as I can to show you that my intentions have nothing to do with "baiting" you.

I dont know where you are going with this. benefiting from your environment (as you call society) has nothing to do with legal jurisdiction/consent of the governed.

This is only something you guys made up, because somehow we are indentured slaves living in a dictatorship.

"Regular society" and the "Law society" are totally different.

 

[Bluekush623]

The highlighted section is not a logical progression from the preceding statements.

if it isnt, show your work.

 

[Bluekush623]

So you make a claim. I ask for evidence of that claim and you tell me that providing evidence of your claims is of no relevance. Fine, I concede the point.

I still have no idea where to find a website describing the true and genuine FOTL. Will you provide information about what you believe or not?

Actually you made the claim that "X" are frauds, and i said that the amount of frauds/legit is of no relevance.

The problem is you are looking for the answer to be given to you instead of you finding the answer for yourself.

If you cant find anything on sovereign/freeman political theories/practices its your problem.

 

[Ladewig]

Actually you made the claim that "X" are frauds, and i said that the amount of frauds/legit is of no relevance.

The problem is you are looking for the answer to be given to you instead of you finding the answer for yourself.

If you cant find anything on sovereign/freeman political theories/practices its your problem.

As I pointed out, all the FOTL websites I have found up to this point are people who appear to frauds and con artists. I have no idea how to find the true FOTL. You accuse us of not wanting to have a "true discussion" yet when we ask for information on the topic being discussed, you actually say "its your problem."

Is there a specific reason why you will not provide a source to help people understand your position?

 

[JimBenArm]

Meh. It's still nothing but assertion on your part. Entirely because it is nothing but wishful thinking and faulty reasoning.
There's nothing for you to point to, so you just posture and make lame excuses.

It's okay. It's not your fault. You fell for a stupid idea, and now think you have to defend it so you don't have to admit you're stupid.

 

[Bluekush623]

As I pointed out, all the FOTL websites I have found up to this point are people who appear to frauds and con artists. I have no idea how to find the true FOTL. You accuse us of not wanting to have a "true discussion" yet when we ask for information on the topic being discussed, you actually say "its your problem."

Is there a specific reason why you will not provide a source to help people understand your position?

Dude, stop looking for websites.

I have stated numerous terminologies of freeman theories/practices.

Remember Consent of Governed? Mala in Se/ Malium Prohibitium?

This is all discussion of said topic.

 

[kerikiwi]

if it isnt, show your work.

Take the following statements (their truth is not relevant):
No one is forced to work in America.
It is not illegal to not have Social security.

So it's not illegal to not pay taxes.


The last statement is not a logical progression from the first two.
The last statement is a statement of how you would like things to be, not how they necessarily are because of the first two.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

I dont know where you are going with this. benefiting from your environment (as you call society) has nothing to do with legal jurisdiction/consent of the governed.

This is only something you guys made up, because somehow we are indentured slaves living in a dictatorship.

"Regular society" and the "Law society" are totally different.

The fact that you live in society confers certain benefits on you, whether the society likes it or not and whether you like it or not. It is an entanglement that cannot be undone (unless you actually leave the society entirely, but in all likelihood, you'll just end up in another one).

Since you are benefiting in ways that cannot be withheld, it is perfectly reasonable for society to expect some recompense from you (or for you to leave).

Why do you think you should be exempt from the recompense?

That is where I am going.

 

[Bluekush623]

Take the following statements (their truth is not relevant):
No one is forced to work in America.
It is not illegal to not have Social security.

So it's not illegal to not pay taxes.

The last statement is not a logical progression from the first two.
The last statement is a statement of how you would like things to be, not how they necessarily are because of the first two.

Look its not illegal to not work, which means its not illegal to not pay taxes. The SSN bit is just extra.