Jewish dance group stoned in Hanover, Germany

[DC]

Ok, so you're going to continue acting this way for your own entertainment.

Not arguing whether the word is 'OK' to be used in everyday usage. Haven't been arguing this at all. So closing this off since you're utterly incapable of arguing the points.

yeah its better you give up teaching others a language you have not the slightest knowledge of.

 

[Thunder]

cool, as an Atheist there is no danger for me becoming an Antisemite.....

only if you were born an atheist and were never exposed to religiously inspired and motivated anti-Jewish feelings.

almost ALL of the anti-Semitism I have ever encountered, was somehow religiously based.

it was either Christians mad at me for rejecting or "killing" Jesus, or something about Jews being cheap and rich, which is the result of centuries of Christian regulations/restrictions forcing Jews into money-lending.

Jews have lived outside of Judea for centuries before the rise of Christianity. We were not known as being rich, cheep, and greedy, during that time.

 

[DC]

only if you were born an atheist and were never exposed to religiously inspired and motivated anti-Jewish feelings.

i was born as an agnostic, like every human is.

so hearing all kind of Conspiracy theories about Jewish bankers that run the world, is no danger aslong only non believers read and believe them?

 

[DC]

so this is totaly wrong?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_is_there_antisemitism

 

[Thunder]

it is fair to say that almost everyone raised in a Christian country has been exposed to lots of Christian-oriented anti-Jewish stereotypes and beliefs.

 

[DC]

it is fair to say that almost everyone raised in a Christian country has been exposed to lots of Christian-oriented anti-Jewish stereotypes and beliefs.

most Antisemitism i came across was actually more economy based than religion.

 

[Thunder]

most Antisemitism i came across was actually more economy based than religion.

no kidding.

and that originates from Middle-Age rules that forbid Jews from farming and many trades, and forced Jews into money lending.

 

[ddt]

Hello slow horse out of the gates, I said I speak Dutch, and just like in German, when one refers to kieselstein (or variations of it), one doesn't necessarily speak about specifications of stones between .07-2.5 inches in everyday talk, unless you are some sort of material engineer or something along those lines.

You're arguing in circles here. I've mentioned why the term stone should be used since it doesn't outright declare size as pebble does.

What do you not understand here?

Sorry to jump in with some pedantry, but when you're arguing from your knowledge of Dutch... Irrespective of technical definitions whether "kiezelsteen" refers to size or type of stone, what matters is the mental image that is called forward with the sentence. When a Dutchman reads "de kinderen gooiden met kiezelstenen" (the kids threw pebbles), he thinks of the small/medium ones typically found on beaches, river shores, and used for garage entrances or garden decoration; the ones you throw at the river surface in the hope they keep bouncing. Not the larger ones you showed in the F1 picture.

Another poster mentioned that no American would think of anything bigger than 5cm diameter as a "pebble".

I have a hunch the same holds for Germans with the German word "Kieselstein" - though I'll leave it for the native German speakers to speak on that with authority. Actually, the article in the "Hannoversche" mentioned a heap of pebbles, big and small, near the site of the incident, as the possible origin.

Language can be a funny beast. When you tell a Dutchman: "de kinderen gooiden met stenen" (the kids threw stones), his mental image will be that the kids pulled bricks out of the pavement and threw those. No wonder in a country without mountains, plenty of rivers that deposit the right type of clay, and thus brick as the single ubiquitous construction material before the advent of concrete, both for streets and buildings. And the Dutch word "steen" may also be used to denote bricks (Dutch: baksteen, literally "baked stone"). For size comparison: a standard Dutch brick is 20x10x5 cm.

Now, that is unique to Dutch, but my feeling is that in English, too, the word "stone" evokes the image of bigger-sized, sharper-edged specimens than "pebble".

 

[ddt]

it is fair to say that almost everyone raised in a Christian country has been exposed to lots of Christian-oriented anti-Jewish stereotypes and beliefs.

I think that depends on the brand of Christianity that is dominant. The RC has always held the dogma that the Jews crucified Jesus. Luther initially hoped that the Jews would convert to his brand of Christianity, and when they didn't he became a virulent antisemite. Other reformers like Zwingli and Calvin didn't have such a beef with Jews AFAIK. No idea about Eastern Orthodoxy.

no kidding.

and that originates from Middle-Age rules that forbid Jews from farming and many trades, and forced Jews into money lending.

Yeah, little wonder - when you exclude Jews from guilds - that they try to earn their living with trading and banking.

 

[Lamafarmer]

Hello slow horse out of the gates, I said I speak Dutch, and just like in German, when one refers to kieselstein (or variations of it), one doesn't necessarily speak about specifications of stones between .07-2.5 inches in everyday talk, unless you are some sort of material engineer or something along those lines.

[...] the term stone should be used since it doesn't outright declare size as pebble does.

it is YOU that doesnt uderstand, the German Language.

and using the word Kies or Kieselsteine in German is totaly OK.

i dont gonna judge the use of pebble or gravel, as im not very good in english.
But i know it in German, and you dont.

Hello. I've been following some of the discussions here and this one made me register (of all things; but you know how pedantic we Germans can be, right? ).

I'd like to argue that bigjelmapro is correct. I too have this connotation of a small stone when I hear the word Kieselstein. I didn't even know you call the larger ones bigjelmapro has inserted pictures of Kieselstein. Well, now I do and he is correct, they're Kieselsteine - on the larger end of the term's definition.

Regarding DC, the German newspaper linked to does use the word Kieselstein, but only about once. As bigjelmapro pointed out, the word stone should be used, and in the newspaper article it is being used continuously, probably to avoid the common connotation of "Kieselstein" with "small".
If you think about it, in the newspaper article it says one of the dancers suffered a a bruise on her leg and the children who threw the stones got the stones from a pile of "smaller and larger pebbles". Now which end of the size spectrum would those be found and which size would you pick up for throwing?

yeah its better you give up teaching others a language you have not the slightest knowledge of.

Uh, yeah.

ETA:

No wonder in a country without mountains, plenty of rivers that deposit the right type of clay, and thus brick as the single ubiquitous construction material before the advent of concrete, both for streets and buildings. And the Dutch word "steen" may also be used to denote bricks (Dutch: baksteen, literally "baked stone"). For size comparison: a standard Dutch brick is 20x10x5 cm.

Now, that is unique to Dutch, but my feeling is that in English, too, the word "stone" evokes the image of bigger-sized, sharper-edged specimens than "pebble".

Gee, I had no idea the Dutch are so pedantic!

 

[DC]

Hello. I've been following some of the discussions here and this one made me register (of all things; but you know how pedantic we Germans can be, right? ).

I'd like to argue that bigjelmapro is correct. I too have this connotation of a small stone when I hear the word Kieselstein. I didn't even know you call the larger ones bigjelmapro has inserted pictures of Kieselstein. Well, now I do and he is correct, they're Kieselsteine - on the larger end of the term's definition.

Regarding DC, the German newspaper linked to does use the word Kieselstein, but only about once. As bigjelmapro pointed out, the word stone should be used, and in the newspaper article it is being used continuously, probably to avoid the common connotation of "Kieselstein" with "small".
If you think about it, in the newspaper article it says one of the dancers suffered a a bruise on her leg and the children who threw the stones got the stones from a pile of "smaller and larger pebbles". Now which end of the size spectrum would those be found and which size would you pick up for throwing?



Uh, yeah.

LOL

you maybe want to reread the thread, Lesen bildet.

the guy didn't even know that pebbles / Kieselsteine does describe the size.
he then got pissed because i used Kiesel instead of Kieselstein, while in English i have been using the word stone for the whole time.....

 

[bigjelmapro]

http://green-24.de/forum/files/thumbs/t_kies1_225.jpg

http://www.kiessand.de/images/kies2.350x350.jpg

Awesome size difference

The use of stone was never towards you, but I guess you enjoy being the center of attention. Oh, and please tell the German guy not to tell a Swiss how to use German. Pfft.

Removed hotlinked images. Please see Rule 5.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL

 

[Lamafarmer]

I may be under the weather today and going from memory since I read most of the thread yesterday, but I am pretty sure I got the jist of the conversation. Anyway, either you enlighten me by linking to relevant posts, or you won't, but I am not going to sift through your very often confusing posts.

 

[DC]

[qimg]http://green-24.de/forum/files/thumbs/t_kies1_225.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.kiessand.de/images/kies2.350x350.jpg[/qimg]
Awesome size difference

The use of stone was never towards you, but I guess you enjoy being the center of attention. Oh, and please tell the German guy not to tell a Swiss how to use German. Pfft.

when i look outside my window, i see a gravel pit.

i know how they look like.

 

[DC]

I may be under the weather today and going from memory since I read most of the thread yesterday, but I am pretty sure I got the jist of the conversation. Anyway, either you enlighten me by linking to relevant posts, or you won't, but I am not going to sift through your very often confusing posts.

Don't see mentioning of 'peddles'. Why can't one do traditional dances of one's religion and/or country?

This is a hate crime, pure and simple.


Playing the role of apologist here too I see. Yelling 'Juden Raus' is not a display of being upset by Israeli policies.

So we have the use of the innocuous term of 'peddles' and here, 'children'. There were children (minors) involved, but to say that only minors were involved is a stretch.


I think you're the one doing the misleading.

in the German press, and CE linked to one, they actually say it were pebbles.
and yes it were not only kids, it was a group of people aged 9 to 19, so the 19 year olds were indeed not children anymore, according to the law.

That's why I put it in question format.


Not getting into an argument about the levels of a hate crime, just stating that it is.


The anti-semitic slurs still makes the hate crime a wholesale attack against Jews. Even if its a subset hate crime against Israelis doesn't make it less worse and a justified means of protest from their standpoint (or 'tension' as you put it in that other thread).

Not turning this into an argument about whether all Jews support the Israeli government either. This is just as peculiar an argument as Americans being pelted by stones in a foreign country, by Japanese for American involvement in Japan. (Correlation, not strawman)

In the Islamic uhmmah, there's often no distinction between being anti-Israel, anti-Zionist, or anti-Jewish.


Selective translation. "Kieselstein" is a type of rock, says nothing about the size.

Some pictures:
http://static-p1.artedona.com/z1/c22206.jpg
http://www.hallmann-informatik.de/images/10_Kieselsteinerot.jpg
http://www.news-on-tour.de/wp-conte...sters_hockenheim_2009/58_gtm09_03_1624_33.jpg

Breach of rule 5 removed. Do not hotlink images from other sites without permission.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles

Stein, is the same meaning in Dutch, and that's 'stone'. Just for the sake of the argument, I would use the term stone rather than judging its size by using the term pebble.


So you did it unintentionally. The end result is still the same: misleading.

Kieselsteine in German does indeed say a lot about the size.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korngröße

ETA:
just as it seem to be in english............

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_size_(grain_size)

who is misleading?

But you do your earnest to avoid the full term of 'kieselstein', the -stein of which means stone.

that is my language.......

I use Kies and not Kieselsteine, the same meaning, just alot lot shorter.

do you now want to tell me how i should use my language?

and just to make sure and prevent to have my words twisted.

I condemned and still condemn the action of the peoples throwing stones. no matter the size of stones.

thats enough for the start?

 

[DC]

[qimg]http://green-24.de/forum/files/thumbs/t_kies1_225.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.kiessand.de/images/kies2.350x350.jpg[/qimg]
Awesome size difference

The use of stone was never towards you, but I guess you enjoy being the center of attention. Oh, and please tell the German guy not to tell a Swiss how to use German. Pfft.

liar?

But you do your earnest to avoid the full term of 'kieselstein', the -stein of which means stone.

 

[ddt]

Regarding DC, the German newspaper linked to does use the word Kieselstein, but only about once. As bigjelmapro pointed out, the word stone should be used, and in the newspaper article it is being used continuously, probably to avoid the common connotation of "Kieselstein" with "small".
If you think about it, in the newspaper article it says one of the dancers suffered a a bruise on her leg and the children who threw the stones got the stones from a pile of "smaller and larger pebbles". Now which end of the size spectrum would those be found and which size would you pick up for throwing?

I concede the point to your exposé. I must say, I'm disappointed with German pedantry that the newspaper article didn't specify the size of the thrown stones.

And welcome to the forum!

Gee, I had no idea the Dutch are so pedantic!

I hope it didn't sound as if I have experience with it? But what do you want, we don't have any stones other than pebbles lying around for throwing with (these are a bit too big ).

The use of stone was never towards you, but I guess you enjoy being the center of attention. Oh, and please tell the German guy not to tell a Swiss how to use German. Pfft.

Whom was this directed at? Anyway, for my part, see above.

 

[Lamafarmer]

thats enough for the start?

I said links to posts, not quotes of them. For a good reason. Now all I can see here, is you pulling a trigger on your own leg.

 

[DC]

I said links to posts, not quotes of them. For a good reason. Now all I can see here, is you pulling a trigger on your own leg.

pls, it all happened in this thread, so feel free to read it or forget it.

 

[Lamafarmer]

I concede the point to your exposé. I must say, I'm disappointed with German pedantry that the newspaper article didn't specify the size of the thrown stones.

And welcome to the forum! [...]

I hope it didn't sound as if I have experience with it?

Goede dag een bedankt, or how do you say it in Dutch? I was also very disappointed, but then I read the latest "pogrom-thread" by "EJ Armstrong" and found a new quality in the haz-article.
Actually, I didn't see that you even started with "Sorry to jump in with some pedantry" at first, but that made it all the better for my personal amusement.

pls, it all happened in this thread, so feel free to read it or forget it.

From what I can see, you're still missing a leg. Want to make it two now?