A rational case for anarchism

[CplFerro]

I don't recall a time when there was ever a consensus that democracy wouldn't work. Do you have a historical source?

I don't, but I imagine there was such a consensus at the time of Solon. How could anything so new have a glowing estimation in the minds of his contemporaries?

 

[Naddig74]

Don't talk to me like that. Good day, sir.

Way to avoid answering the question

 

[Loss Leader]

I don't, but I imagine there was such a consensus at the time of Solon. How could anything so new have a glowing estimation in the minds of his contemporaries?

I don't think there was ever a time when the concept of democracy was new.

 

[Chaos]

Don't talk to me like that. Good day, sir.

If you can´t stand it that your ridiculous claims are being ridiculed, go somewhere else.

 

[Chaos]

I don't, but I imagine there was such a consensus at the time of Solon. How could anything so new have a glowing estimation in the minds of his contemporaries?

So do you admit that you do not have any information indicating that there ever was such a consensus?

Are you even peripherally aware of the difference between "not a glowing estimation" and "consensus that it can´t work"?

 

[Virus]

I'm still waiting on this rational case for anarchism. A good portion of the OP is based on the genetic fallacy.

 

[JihadJane]

Anarchism doesn't work because by definition anarchism doesn't have anything to work. It has nothing that allows society to function, and it doesn't even have anything to prevent a government to form.

 

[JihadJane]

Imagine a country run by these people:

Imagine a country run by people like this:

 

[dudalb]

If you can´t stand it that your ridiculous claims are being ridiculed, go somewhere else.

Cpl Ferro is a Lyndon La Rouche Supporter. What can you expect,rational ideas?

 

[Michael Redman]

Imagine a country run by people like this:

I live in a country run by those people, and despite its flaws, I wouldn't trade it for any real world example you can show me.

 

[Loss Leader]

Cpl Ferro is a Lyndon La Rouche Supporter. What can you expect,rational ideas?

I don't know what there is to get worked up about. All I saw was that he asked a general question about how "common wisdom" developed. He didn't support anarchy or make any argument that it ever could work. He retracted his one example of a functioning anarchy when presented with facts. And he seemed to lack a deep historical understanding of the development of democracy. But he hasn't even defended that position very diligently, claiming ignorance on his own part.

Meanwhile, the OP has been gone for a day or more and probably won't be back.

 

[mike3]

Statism is survival of the fittest in terms of who can get the idiots riled up enough to vote for them. Everything must be survival of the fittest in some respect.

So the question then, is what is the "fitness function" that determines who's "fitter" than the others in your anarchism system? Is it who's the most just, the most wise, the most ethically noble, the most selfless, or is it the one who's the most greedy, the most cunning and deceitful, etc.? Perhaps this is where the (or a very big) problem is. If it's something like who can get the most brute force, the most muscles, the most guns, the most arrogance, etc. then nothing's any better: you could just get the most ruthless possible people holding all the power even if it's not a formalized "government", and it wouldn't matter how morally bankrupt they'd be. It'd just emerge due to the fitness function that is applied, and as a result what's left would be a society full of ruthless, arrogant "dogs", essentially. More of a dystopia than a utopia, I'd say.

 

[mike3]

Do you? From whence would such an obligation arise?

Unwritten "social fabric" rules?

You have a natural obligation to defend yourself, of course. Only a natural one.

Defense, though, need not necessarily mean revenge, which I guess is what I'd be thinking. For example, I don't have to rape them back if they rape my child (I don't have one in the real world, but imagined just for the purpose of this discussion), I could try to wrestle them off, or shoot them with a gun, etc. To me, revenge is just being out for one's personal ego, and I don't think egotism ruling the roost is good. And if you want to get rid of government, you'd need to have a strong base of high moral values, at least that's how I'd see it.

 

[JihadJane]

I live in a country run by those people, and despite its flaws, I wouldn't trade it for any real world example you can show me.

You'll have to buy it back from China and Japan first!

 

[Virus]

Here's the challenge: Name one place where people tried to build the communist/anarchist vision and it turned out well.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Here's the challenge: Name one place where people tried to build the communist/anarchist vision and it turned out well.

The problems here is that you are looking at a method of structuring the economy, and the absence of government.

I am not a communist but there are clear issues with the governments involved in the communist countries, so it is hard to show definitively that Communism as a economic system, one with say a democratic republic as its government would work.

 

[Virus]

The problems here is that you are looking at a method of structuring the economy, and the absence of government.

I am not a communist but there are clear issues with the governments involved in the communist countries, so it is hard to show definitively that Communism as a economic system, one with say a democratic republic as its government would work.

Left anarchists want a socialist style economy but without the authoritarian state. They split off from the early communist and Marxist movement. They don't really have any unified economic program, they all believe in various things that are never well defined. They seem to assume that when people are freed from government interference that they'll just create a better economic system naturally.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_economics

But that's the traditional, left anarchists. The opening poster is an anarcho-capitalist who thinks capitalism would work better if there was no government at all. Pretty boring position if you ask me. Might as well just join the extreme end of the Republican Party.

 

[CplFerro]

Here's the challenge: Name one place where people tried to build the communist/anarchist vision and it turned out well.

What about Cuba? Didn't they only turn out badly because of the trade embargo against them, having instead to be propped up by the USSR?

 

[SOdhner]

I know I'm a bit late to the game, but I didn't see anyone else comment on this:

So why would it be immoral for your client to have simply cut to the chase?

[...]

There'd be no need to steal tens of thousands of dollars from the innocent taxpayer, at gunpoint, to pay for the police who brought him in, the lawyers, the judge, and the overpaid civil servants who officiated the case.

Oh, a lynch mob! Yes, that's the ideal solution. Look, I know the legal system my government (United States of America) has set up is far from perfect. I know for a fact that some guilty parties go free and some innocent people are convicted. It happens. That being said, I feel confident that the success rate is far, far higher than what it would be in an anarchist society.

If justice was determined by the individual or even just by a quick majority vote of whoever happened to be around, people would be killed for all sorts of terrible reasons. This has plenty of real-world examples to back it up, sadly.

 

[Loss Leader]

What about Cuba? Didn't they only turn out badly because of the trade embargo against them, having instead to be propped up by the USSR?

See, this is exactly the problem with Communism. All of it's real-world applications have involved excessively heavy doses of fascism. I don't think Cuba was nearly as communist as it was fascist. And I think that the embargo was and is far more in response to the fascism than the communism.

But, of course, the one thing that Cuba is most definitely not is an anarchy.