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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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OK, I will take on this challenge. In my scenario, this was a disorganized, unplanned sexual homicide like hundreds that occur throughout the world every year. It happened as follows:

9:00 PM - Guede breaks the window in Filomena Romanelli’s room and uses it to gain entry, using either the planter box adjacent to the window or the bars on the downstairs window as a starting point.

9:15 PM - Guede is using the toilet in the large bathroom when Meredith arrives home. That is why it was not flushed. He did not want to alert her to his presence.

9:20 PM - Armed with a small pocketknife, Guede sneaks up on Meredith and attacks her in her room. She struggles desperately, but he overpowers her and cuts her throat.

9:25 PM - When the struggle is over, he moves her out of the pool of blood, removes most of her clothing, and assaults her sexually, leaving his epithelial DNA inside her vagina.

9:40 PM - He goes into the small bathroom where he cleans himself up. He removes his right shoe, which is soaked through with blood, and rinses it under the bidet. This is why police found the victim’s blood in the bidet. He puts his exposed foot down on the bathmat to steady himself, leaving a bloody print.

9:45 PM - He puts his shoe back on and returns to Meredith’s room, where he pulls the duvet from the bed and spreads it over her body. He goes through her purse, and he takes her money along with two cell phones that he discards on the way back to his apartment.

9:50 PM - He exits the room, locking the door behind him. He leaves bloody shoe prints inside the room and a trail of shoe prints leading down the corridor to the exit.

Under my scenario, the evidence against Amanda and Raffaele is either the result of contamination or else meaningless forensic data that would have been present even if no crime had occurred. But, if you believe this evidence means something, I would challenge you to come up with a scenario that explains it, as follows:

1. The knife from Raffaele's kitchen with Amanda's DNA on the handle and Meredith's DNA on the blade, which fits one of the wounds on Meredith's neck but not the other two.
2. The bra fastener with Raffaele's DNA on the hook.
3. The bloody footprint in the bathmat attributed to Raffaele.
4. Luminol footprints in the corridor:
- one just outside Meredith's door with the toes pointing toward that door, attributed to Amanda.
- one just outside Amanda's door, with the toes pointing toward the kitchen.
5. A shapeless luminol reaction in Filomena's room that revealed Amanda's DNA mixed with Meredith's DNA.
6. The mixed DNA of Amanda and Meredith in the bathroom and in a luminol shoe print in the hallway.
6. Inconsistencies and falsehoods in their statements to police.

This is the "mountain of evidence" in brief. Take this evidence and fit it into a plausible narrative, one that explains why the knife from Sollecito's kitchen was taken to the cottage and back, how the luminol footprints ended up in the places they were found, how Amanda's DNA came to be mixed with Meredith's DNA in the bathroom, in Filomena's room, and in the hallway shoe print. Tell us what Amanda's role was in the murder, what Raffaele's role was, and how it happened that Raffaele left his DNA on the metal hook of the bra fastener.

This narrative should also take into account the evidence against Guede:

1. Guede’s DNA inside Meredith’s body.
2. Guede’s DNA on the sleeve of Meredith's sweatshirt and on her bra.
3. Guede’s DNA on a purse inside the room where she was killed.
4. Guede’s fingerprints, made with Meredith's blood, on a pillow in the room where she was killed.
5. Bloody shoe prints in the murder room and the corridor, matching the size and model of Nike shoes for which the police found an empty box in Guede’s apartment, and which Guede has admitted he left at the scene.
6. Guede's feces in the toilet of the larger bathroom shared by Laura and Filomena.

No one disputes that Guede was involved, so I'm not sure what you're hoping to prove by presenting evidence of his guilt as a counter to my post. Your statement "Under my scenario, the evidence against Amanda and Raffaele is either the result of contamination or else meaningless forensic data that would have been present even if no crime had occurred" may neatly dismiss all the evidence you don't like, but it's really not the sort of thing anyone else should take very seriously. And you haven't addressed at all why Knox and Sollecito lied. And we're not talking about trivial details either; Knox accused her ex-boss of being the murderer, while Sollecito made up some story about a previous visit Kercher made to his apartment during which (now here's a rotten piece of luck) she just happened to cut herself with a knife on which her blood was later found.

So in your scenario Knox is the innocent victim of a bizarre and incredibly improbable concoction of incompetent forensics, corrupt police, horrible bad luck, and her own inexplicable habit of lying when she'd be vastly better off telling the truth. In my scenario...she did it. Occam's razor and all that.

Sorry, but what you've presented is exactly the kind of argument I was talking about when I said that what finally persuaded me that Knox is guilty is both the story told by the evidence, and the weak and implausible scenarios offered by her supporters. Yours, I'm afraid, is typical of the genre: convoluted and unconvincing.
 
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Sorry, but what you've presented is exactly the kind of argument I was talking about when I said that what finally persuaded me that Knox is guilty is both the story told by the evidence, and the weak and implausible scenarios offered by her supporters. Yours, I'm afraid, is typical of the genre: convoluted and unconvincing.

Are you going to rise to the challenge and present your own scenario?
 
Whether Knox walks free won't have as much to do with any "groundswell of public support" as it has to do with the evidence, or lack of it.

Oh, I don't disagree. But the fact remains that Knox supporters have diligently cultivated just the sort of groundswell support I'm talking about. After all, one does not go on Oprah to try a case in court.
 
Oh, I don't disagree. But the fact remains that Knox supporters have diligently cultivated just the sort of groundswell support I'm talking about. After all, one does not go on Oprah to try a case in court.

Right, let's get this straight once and for all. Everybody, but everybody, involved in this case is using either expensive publicists, the meeja, or the internet to further their own cause in the way that suits them best. Just sayin'.
 
Are you going to rise to the challenge and present your own scenario?

Um, I already have, in the first sentence of the second paragraph of my original post. Here, I'll quote it:

"She did it."

Thus there is no "challenge" to which to rise.

I'm sufficiently familiar with this thread to know the drill for what happens next. Knox supporters will attempt to turn the discussion back to minutia and trivialities, offering alternate explanations to individual pieces of evidence. What they don't seem to realize -- or in fact do realize, but simply choose to ignore -- is that each alternative to "she did it" adds yet another layer of complexity and implausibility. Here, let me demonstrate. (And bear in mind that since Knox from day 1 pegged her innocence on Sollecito's, anything that implicates him implicates her. I'm sure Knox supporters don't like that situation much, but take it up with her, not me.)

* DNA on bra clasp: Contamination, or conspiracy, or bad luck, or...she did it.

* Blood on knife: Contamination, or conspiracy, or alternate reality in which Kercher actually did visit Sollecito's flat, or...she did it.

* Knox lying to implicate ex-boss: Psychotic break with reality, or (shucks, I really don't really know what else), or...she did it.

Spot any trends there? Just three pieces of evidence (and of course, there's mountains of others), and to make it work you have to live in a world where the police are corrupt, the forensic labs are incompetent, Knox and Sollicito are incredibly unlucky, and Knox tells self-destructive lies for no reason whatsoever. Or...she did it. And with each additional piece of evidence thrown in, the "Knox is innocent" scenario becomes exponentially brizzare and improbable.

I know better than to get sucked into yet another discussion that attempts to recapitulate this entire thread, so I won't. Instead, I'll repeat the core theme of my original post: Knox supporters are doing their cause a disservice by acting precisely like conspiracy theorists. And the reaction to my post has followed absolutely true to form: present highly convoluted alternate explanation that cherry-picks evidence and ignores inconvenient facts, and when that fails follow up with "you're closed minded" and other responses that can pretty much be summed up thus: "nah-uhh!!" I suppose if that's all you've got, that's what you do -- but really, you're not doing Ms. Knox any favors.
 
Right, let's get this straight once and for all. Everybody, but everybody, involved in this case is using either expensive publicists, the meeja, or the internet to further their own cause in the way that suits them best. Just sayin'.

Odd, I must have missed the Oprah episode that featured Meredith Kercher's family.
 
Um, I already have, in the first sentence of the second paragraph of my original post. Here, I'll quote it:

"She did it."

Thus there is no "challenge" to which to rise.

I'm sufficiently familiar with this thread to know the drill for what happens next. Knox supporters will attempt to turn the discussion back to minutia and trivialities, offering alternate explanations to individual pieces of evidence. What they don't seem to realize -- or in fact do realize, but simply choose to ignore -- is that each alternative to "she did it" adds yet another layer of complexity and implausibility. Here, let me demonstrate. (And bear in mind that since Knox from day 1 pegged her innocence on Sollecito's, anything that implicates him implicates her. I'm sure Knox supporters don't like that situation much, but take it up with her, not me.)

* DNA on bra clasp: Contamination, or conspiracy, or bad luck, or...she did it.

* Blood on knife: Contamination, or conspiracy, or alternate reality in which Kercher actually did visit Sollecito's flat, or...she did it.

* Knox lying to implicate ex-boss: Psychotic break with reality, or (shucks, I really don't really know what else), or...she did it.

Spot any trends there? Just three pieces of evidence (and of course, there's mountains of others), and to make it work you have to live in a world where the police are corrupt, the forensic labs are incompetent, Knox and Sollicito are incredibly unlucky, and Knox tells self-destructive lies for no reason whatsoever. Or...she did it. And with each additional piece of evidence thrown in, the "Knox is innocent" scenario becomes exponentially brizzare and improbable.

I know better than to get sucked into yet another discussion that attempts to recapitulate this entire thread, so I won't. Instead, I'll repeat the core theme of my original post: Knox supporters are doing their cause a disservice by acting precisely like conspiracy theorists. And the reaction to my post has followed absolutely true to form: present highly convoluted alternate explanation that cherry-picks evidence and ignores inconvenient facts, and when that fails follow up with "you're closed minded" and other responses that can pretty much be summed up thus: "nah-uhh!!" I suppose if that's all you've got, that's what you do -- but really, you're not doing Ms. Knox any favors.

I've said it before, but I'll repeat it again: It doesn't even require a belief in Knox or Sollecito's innocence to form an opinion that their convictions may not be safe. There were a number of seemingly key pieces of evidence which appeared to convince the judicial panel of their guilt in the first trial. These included the kitchen knife, various pieces of witness testimony, and blood/skin cell DNA analysis within the murder house*. And for each of these areas, I believe it may be possible for the defence to challenge its validity/trustworthiness/accuracy.

If each of these areas is fully and properly challenged in the appeal, and if most or all of it survives this challenge, then I'll become pretty satisfied with the safety of the convictions. However, from what I currently know, I think that there are problems with some of the core planks of the prosecution's case. It's not (for me at least) about some sort of crusade for Amanda Knox, for Americans abroad, or against "archaic Italian justice". It's no more or less (for me) than a working hypothesis that the convictions might be unsafe. I have no emotional attachment whatsoever to the case, and will have no problem at all with being shown to be misguided.

Others will no doubt show you that you may be mistaken in your views on how Knox's "confession/accusation" was elicited from her, about the true nature of the DNA evidence on the "murder knife", and about the curious (and incompetent) story of the bra clasp. And you should also never forget that if you are viewing certain posters as some form of quasi-defence team, then it's only the job of that team to find enough reasonable alternative possibilities (not, crucially, proof) regarding the more important elements of prosecution evidence to show reasonable doubt in the case as a whole. On the other hand, the prosecution still has a very high burden of actual proof in order to confirm the safety of the convictions.

Lastly, I think that anyone on all of the various Kercher-related forums is getting grandiose ideas above their stations if they think that these discussions have any significant impact on the outcome of any aspect of this case. We are (almost without exception) outsiders who are commenting from the periphery, usually with incomplete levels of base information. If people think that what they say will end up being "important" in any direction, I think they're mistaken. Therefore, I can say that it's never, ever, been about trying to "win hearts and minds" or influence the case - as far as I'm personally concerned. Instead, for me, it's about trying to have a reasonably well-informed debate about an intriguing criminal case. Unfortunately, so many people seem to have become so very deeply personally invested in the case (for reasons which I often find hard to understand) that the debate has all-too-often turned into a cavalcade of cat-calling and "I'm right and you're wrong" playground argument - from every angle.

* Incidentally, Knox's statements from 01.45 and 05.45 on 2nd November shouldn't even be discussed in the context of a judicial evaluation of AK/RS's guilt or non-guilt. None of this was material was introduced in the murder trial - either because it was self-incriminating or because it was factually wrong. I don't know if the appeal will bring up the extraordinary ruling that the Lumumba criminal slander trial could be heard in front of the same judicial panel in the midst of the murder trial...
 
Stellafane makes some good points. Personally, I felt exactly the same way for a long time in this case. If the fact that I am now leaning towards the innocent side of things makes me consider that there may have been some intentional efforts to send two innocent people to jail a possibility, then be it so. Labels are just that, I am interested in the truth. If the search for the truth results in me finding a conspiracy, I do not intend to hide me head under the umbrella of conspiracy theory shame.
 
Odd, I must have missed the Oprah episode that featured Meredith Kercher's family.

Perhaps that should have been "everyone with an ongoing partisan agenda". The Kerchers' only agenda has been justice, and they've conducted themselves with (in my view) extreme dignity and restraint. Mignini's personal publicity effort is a thing to behold, though - and some might say that it's entirely inappropriate for a public justice official...

For the record, I would agree with you that the Knox family has been overactive in its publicity drive. Quite why they feel that they need to convince the American (or even Italian) public of Knox's wrongful conviction is strange and potentially counter-productive. They should be spending all of their time and effort working with the legal team on the upcoming appeal. I happen to think that very many areas of the Knox PR machine have been big mistakes - from the ill-judged Heaney letter through to the Marriott-controlled media access situation. However, the PR mistakes should have no bearing whatsoever on the underlying issue of the safety of criminal convictions - and presumably the appellate court (the only place that actually matters) understands this.

I think that the Knox/Mellas family would have been very well-advised to stay out of the media spotlight altogether (apart, perhaps, from one or two "serious" and non-partisan news programme interviews). I have a sneaking feeling (which I hope may be wrong) that Edda Mellas in particular somewhat enjoys being in the media spotlight, and I'm also pretty sure that the expensive PR team needs to keep justifying its place on the payroll somehow....
 
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Stellafane makes some good points. Personally, I felt exactly the same way for a long time in this case. If the fact that I am now leaning towards the innocent side of things makes me consider that there may have been some intentional efforts to send two innocent people to jail a possibility, then be it so. Labels are just that, I am interested in the truth. If the search for the truth results in me finding a conspiracy, I do not intend to hide me head under the umbrella of conspiracy theory shame.

I agree 100% with your opinion here. "Conspiracy" has got itself a bad name - not all conspiracies are ludicrous and far-fetched. Personally, I currently favour "malpractice" and/or "misplaced eagerness" over "conspiracy" in this particular case, but that doesn't change the rationale of your post.
 
I've said it before, but I'll repeat it again: It doesn't even require a belief in Knox or Sollecito's innocence to form an opinion that their convictions may not be safe. There were a number of seemingly key pieces of evidence which appeared to convince the judicial panel of their guilt in the first trial. These included the kitchen knife, various pieces of witness testimony, and blood/skin cell DNA analysis within the murder house*. And for each of these areas, I believe it may be possible for the defence to challenge its validity/trustworthiness/accuracy.

If each of these areas is fully and properly challenged in the appeal, and if most or all of it survives this challenge, then I'll become pretty satisfied with the safety of the convictions. However, from what I currently know, I think that there are problems with some of the core planks of the prosecution's case. It's not (for me at least) about some sort of crusade for Amanda Knox, for Americans abroad, or against "archaic Italian justice". It's no more or less (for me) than a working hypothesis that the convictions might be unsafe. I have no emotional attachment whatsoever to the case, and will have no problem at all with being shown to be misguided.

Others will no doubt show you that you may be mistaken in your views on how Knox's "confession/accusation" was elicited from her, about the true nature of the DNA evidence on the "murder knife", and about the curious (and incompetent) story of the bra clasp. And you should also never forget that if you are viewing certain posters as some form of quasi-defence team, then it's only the job of that team to find enough reasonable alternative possibilities (not, crucially, proof) regarding the more important elements of prosecution evidence to show reasonable doubt in the case as a whole. On the other hand, the prosecution still has a very high burden of actual proof in order to confirm the safety of the convictions.

Lastly, I think that anyone on all of the various Kercher-related forums is getting grandiose ideas above their stations if they think that these discussions have any significant impact on the outcome of any aspect of this case. We are (almost without exception) outsiders who are commenting from the periphery, usually with incomplete levels of base information. If people think that what they say will end up being "important" in any direction, I think they're mistaken. Therefore, I can say that it's never, ever, been about trying to "win hearts and minds" or influence the case - as far as I'm personally concerned. Instead, for me, it's about trying to have a reasonably well-informed debate about an intriguing criminal case. Unfortunately, so many people seem to have become so very deeply personally invested in the case (for reasons which I often find hard to understand) that the debate has all-too-often turned into a cavalcade of cat-calling and "I'm right and you're wrong" playground argument - from every angle.

* Incidentally, Knox's statements from 01.45 and 05.45 on 2nd November shouldn't even be discussed in the context of a judicial evaluation of AK/RS's guilt or non-guilt. None of this was material was introduced in the murder trial - either because it was self-incriminating or because it was factually wrong. I don't know if the appeal will bring up the extraordinary ruling that the Lumumba criminal slander trial could be heard in front of the same judicial panel in the midst of the murder trial...

Can't really dispute much of what you're saying, since it's pretty much personal opinion and reflection. I will, however, address a few points:

There were a number of seemingly key pieces of evidence which appeared to convince the judicial panel of their guilt in the first trial. These included the kitchen knife, various pieces of witness testimony, and blood/skin cell DNA analysis within the murder house*. And for each of these areas, I believe it may be possible for the defence to challenge its validity/trustworthiness/accuracy.

Believe all you want, but you can't really expect rational people to follow down this same path of implausibility. OK, let's allow for the possibility that one piece of evidence is the result of contamination (and possibility is all it is, since there's zero proof that this is the case). But all the above evidence is the result of contamination?? What are the odds of so much key evidence being completely spurious? Just how unlucky can a person get? Sorry, but there's no way happenstance produces a string of false evidence like that all pointing the same way. So you're left with either it's all the result of a conspiracy (there's that word again), or...she did it.


And you should also never forget that if you are viewing certain posters as some form of quasi-defence team, then it's only the job of that team to find enough reasonable alternative possibilities (not, crucially, proof) regarding the more important elements of prosecution evidence to show reasonable doubt in the case as a whole.

Granted. But to do that with any efficacy, it isn't enough to present conceivable alternatives to individual pieces of evidence. You also must present a reasonable alternative scenario that explains all the evidence. In my opinion, thus far Knox supporters haven't even remotely come up with one.

And as far as Knox's lies are concerned, I think it's disingenuous to attempt to dilute their import with judicial trivialities. The fact is, she falsely (and quite voluntarily) accused someone she knew was innocent of Kercher's murder. The fact is, she did that for a reason. And the most obvious and plausible scenario is that she did it because she's guilty and attempted to divert police attention away from herself (which initially worked, however briefly). Sure, I suppose someone can come up with some extremely far-fetched alternate reason Knox might innocently tell such a lie, but it detracts not one iota from the fact that her lie is perfectly consistent with the police version of events, namely...she did it. Sorry, you just can't hand-wave this fact away, not if you're genuinely concerned with the truth.
 
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Stellafane makes some good points. Personally, I felt exactly the same way for a long time in this case. If the fact that I am now leaning towards the innocent side of things makes me consider that there may have been some intentional efforts to send two innocent people to jail a possibility, then be it so. Labels are just that, I am interested in the truth. If the search for the truth results in me finding a conspiracy, I do not intend to hide me head under the umbrella of conspiracy theory shame.

Conspiracies do happen, to be sure. But let's face it, they get invoked vastly more often than they are proven. Thus it isn't enough to present a conspiracy theory; you have to offer some evidence that it really happened. This is where conspiracy theorists almost invariably fail -- and thus far Knox supporters certainly have in this regard.

The conspiracy theory is very seductive to some, because it allows one to dismiss anything that contradicts their beliefs. It ultimately leads to very predictable patterns of behavior, several of which have unfortunately been exibited in abundance in this thread -- indeed, even within the response to my posts.

And in any case, how does a conspiracy theory explain the lies told by Knox and Stillecito? Are they in on it too?? (Yes, I know that's a smart ass remark; I mention it only to show that not even a conspiracy theory gets Knox completely off the hook.)
 
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Conspiracies do happen, to be sure. But let's face it, they get invoked vastly more often than they are proven. Thus it isn't enough to present a conspiracy theory; you have to offer some evidence that it really happened. This is where conspiracy theorists almost invariably fail -- and thus far Knox supporters certainly have in this regard.

The conspiracy theory is very seductive to some, because it allows one to dismiss anything that contradicts their beliefs. It ultimately leads to very predictable patterns of behavior, several of which have unfortunately been exibited in abundance in this thread -- indeed, even within the response to my posts.

I thought you made some valid points, very similar in fact to ones I had made a a few moths ago. Unlike you I have researched all I could find on this case before I came to my current position.

I agree that the probability of contamination/dna transfer of both the knife and the bra clasp are low. I have been persuaded to increase those odds somewhat by Hakildes at View From Wilmington, but I still believe your other two options are much more probable.

As far as the third piece of evidence you gave I believe the police wanted a confession, they did their best to get a confession and it was a false one. It is clear to me that they believed Amanda on this and they acted on the information believing Patrik was guilty as accused. So no conspiracy on that one, I believe Amanda broke down and gave them a confession. I don't think she had a "true" confession to give them so she gave a false one. Bad on Amanda's part, but it does not make her a murderess.

The other part, the "mountain" of evidence, is slowly coming apart piece by piece as far as I am concerned. Witnesses that are not credible, forensics that are questionable, and motives and reasoning regarding the reconstruction of the crime and the reason for it that are fantasy. I urge you to do more research on your own, I have read the Massei report several times (I admit its a google translation) and I have read the appeals of Amanda and Raffaele several times (same caveat), some parts of particular interest I have been able to have translated by a real person. I have also searched and read as many of the blogs, articles, and books that I could get my hands on and I have been able to get access to some information not available to the general public. I have also argued from both sides of this case, and joined every board I possibly could to engage in discussion. I believe Raffaele and Amanda are innocent of the murder of Meredith Kercher.

I don't mind any label you want to give me because of that.
 
Can't really dispute much of what you're saying, since it's pretty much personal opinion and reflection. I will, however, address a few points:



Believe all you want, but you can't really expect rational people to follow down this same path of implausibility. OK, let's allow for the possibility that one piece of evidence is the result of contamination (and possibility is all it is, since there's zero proof that this is the case). But all the above evidence is the result of contamination?? What are the odds of so much key evidence being completely spurious? Just how unlucky can a person get? Sorry, but there's no way happenstance produces a string of false evidence like that all pointing the same way. So you're left with either it's all the result of a conspiracy (there's that word again), or...she did it.




Granted. But to do that with any efficacy, it isn't enough to present conceivable alternatives to individual pieces of evidence. You also must present a reasonable alternative scenario that explains all the evidence. In my opinion, thus far Knox supporters haven't even remotely come up with one.

And as far as Knox's lies are concerned, I think it's disingenuous to attempt to dilute their import with judicial trivialities. The fact is, she falsely (and quite voluntarily) accused someone she knew was innocent of Kercher's murder. The fact is, she did that for a reason. And the most obvious and plausible scenario is that she did it because she's guilty and attempted to divert police attention away from herself (which initially worked, however briefly). Sure, I suppose someone can come up with some extremely far-fetched alternate reason Knox might innocently tell such a lie, but it detracts not one iota from the fact that her lie is perfectly consistent with the police version of events, namely...she did it. Sorry, you just can't hand-wave this fact away, not if you're genuinely concerned with the truth.

Who said anything about all the key evidence being the result of contamination? Not me. And much evidence can be made to point in a number of differing ways - so to state that it all "points one way" is disingenuous and misleading.

It isn't the job of the defence to present an alternative scenario which explains away all of the prosecution's evidence. I thought you might know that, from the surety of language used in your post. It's the job of the defence to construct reasonable alternative explanations for enough areas of the prosecution's evidence so as to introduce reasonable doubt in the case as a whole.

As an example, let's say that Mr A was on trial accused of murdering his wife. Mr A worked in an office 5 miles away from his home, and his wife was killed at 11am on a working day (time established definitively). Let's say that the prosecution offers only two pieces of evidence against Mr A (for the sake of simplicity), which comprise two witnesses:

Witness 1 lives opposite Mr and Mrs A's house. He says that he was mowing his front lawn that morning between 10.30am and 11.30am. He's sure of the time, since he went out to start mowing as soon as his favourite daily soap opera (which he never misses) finished at 10.30, and he knows that his front lawn takes an hour to mow. He says he saw Mr A arrive back at his house by car 20 minutes after he started mowing, and then he saw Mr A leave the house by car 15 minutes after that. He saw nobody else arrive at the house either by foot or vehicle during the period he was outside.

Witness 2 is a restaurant waiter who says that he overheard Mr and Mrs A arguing loudly and bitterly in his restaurant the evening before the murder. He says he heard Mrs A say that she was going to divorce Mr A and take him for everything she could get.

Now, let's say that the defence manages to successfully discredit Witness 2 (maybe they can show that his shift started after Mr and Mrs A had already left, so he must have seen another couple arguing). But if they can't discredit Witness 1's testimony in any way, it's quite likely that a jury would find Mr A guilty of murder. After all, Witness 1 provides strong evidence that Mr A returned to his wife's location exactly over the time of her murder, and left shortly after, and that nobody else was seen to come or go to/from the murder house over this period.

However, imagine if the opposite happens: the defence manage to successfully discredit Witness 1 (maybe he was elderly and had confused his days; maybe the defence finds a local council employee who can prove that he was mending a street light outside Witness 1's house on the day of the murder between 10am and 10.50am and who can testify that Witness 1 was not mowing his lawn on that morning). But in this scenario, the defence cannot discredit or refute the testimony of Witness 2.

In this second scenario, the defence have once again discredited one area of the prosecution's evidence, but not the other. But this is where the relative importance of evidence comes into play. Without a witness who can place Mr A as the only person entering or leaving the murder house over the time period when Mrs A was killed, the prosecution's case sinks. Witness 2's testimony is interesting, but it's not any kind of proof of murder. Mr A would almost certainly be acquitted by a jury in this scenario.

Can you see now how it's not necessary for the defence to demonstrate fallibilities in each and every piece of the prosecution's case in order to show reasonable doubt in the case as a whole?
 
Stellafane makes some good points. Personally, I felt exactly the same way for a long time in this case. If the fact that I am now leaning towards the innocent side of things makes me consider that there may have been some intentional efforts to send two innocent people to jail a possibility, then be it so. Labels are just that, I am interested in the truth. If the search for the truth results in me finding a conspiracy, I do not intend to hide me head under the umbrella of conspiracy theory shame.

It helps to know about other cases, because it becomes possible to recognize patterns and also to accept the fact that public authorities do in fact collaborate to suppress the truth when they feel that their reputations are at stake. I mentioned the Dreyfus Affair the other day. Virtually all historians now accept that Dreyfus was innocent, and they also accept that the French military expended a tremendous effort to deceive the public about this fact, and this effort did indeed become a conspiracy that reached to the highest levels of the command structure. I could list off any number of US criminal investigations where police and prosecutors have gone to extraordinary lengths to send innocent people to jail rather than admit to a mistake. Does that make me a conspiracy theorist?
 
It helps to know about other cases, because it becomes possible to recognize patterns and also to accept the fact that public authorities do in fact collaborate to suppress the truth when they feel that their reputations are at stake. I mentioned the Dreyfus Affair the other day. Virtually all historians now accept that Dreyfus was innocent, and they also accept that the French military expended a tremendous effort to deceive the public about this fact, and this effort did indeed become a conspiracy that reached to the highest levels of the command structure. I could list off any number of US criminal investigations where police and prosecutors have gone to extraordinary lengths to send innocent people to jail rather than admit to a mistake. Does that make me a conspiracy theorist?

Agreed. Incidentally, I note with a certain amount of open-mouthed astonishment that some people are employing new lows of logical analysis in comparing the culpability of Joran van der Sloot and Amanda Knox.

In this new and ingenious development, the fact that van der Sloot and Knox both played soccer (football in proper language, hehe) at high school, both went to private schools, both were honors students, and both spoke foreign languages, somehow implies that Knox is as culpable as van der Sloot may be. Forget evidence and that kind of thing* - the shared passion for soccer, private education and language ability are the clincher!

* And as far as I can see, there is a good deal of highly incriminating evidence pointing at van der Sloot right now - although of course we, the public, shouldn't be party to any of this evidence before a proper trial.....
 
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