Van Der Sloot is a dead man.

[SezMe]

Now people are in a position to make sure he is held accountable. I say go for it.

I see. You prefer extra judicial punishment, capital in nature.

Cheney fan, are you?

What DR wrote. Law-and-order types like Quad rooting for criminality are a real hoot.

 

[Eddie Dane]

I actually totally agree with that statement. Anyone with two brain cells to put together would know to stay away from trouble after an international high profile three year fiasco like that. Anyone. Anyone. Whether they were guilty or not or partially guilty or whatever the situation was. You'd think that even this lunatic would get the message to rest his engines.

You'd think even he would know not to:

Confess to a murder- for the SECOND TIME
Attempt to extort the victim's mother, thereby confessing for a THIRD TIME and nearly getting arrested a THIRD time
Fly to ANOTHER foreign country and commit a SECOND murder, not three years after he was cleared from the FIRST one

And I'd like to add to the long list of screw-ups:
His parents agreed to go on Tv with him, in an obvious attempt to to do some PR damage control.
The three of them appeared on the show hosted by Peter de Vries (same guy who set up the hidden camera thing, later on).
The interview went quite well, them sticking to the script of innocense en there being no proof.
After the interview ended VDS threw a glass of wine in De Vries' face. On live TV, with his parents next to him!

Not what I call damage control.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Oh and regarding his first confession on hidden camera:
He is a compulsive liar, who never tells a story twice in the same way.
The tape was made by a sensationalist journalist, not the cops.
The undercover guy and him where smoking weed, the whole time. Joran was completely stoned.

A lot of things that don't exactly make this courtroom material.

 

[Ladewig]

adding to the list of screw ups.

After find oneself staring down at a woman one just killed in Peru (in one's own hotel room), it might be useful to hop a plane back to the Netherlands given that there is no prisoner exchange program between the Netherlands and Peru and if convicted in Peru, one would be serving time in one of the harshest prisons in the western hemisphere. Going to Chile? Not a wise move.

 

[Eddie Dane]

adding to the list of screw ups.

After find oneself staring down at a woman one just killed in Peru (in one's own hotel room), it might be useful to hop a plane back to the Netherlands given that there is no prisoner exchange program between the Netherlands and Peru and if convicted in Peru, one would be serving time in one of the harshest prisons in the western hemisphere. Going to Chile? Not a wise move.

It also occurred to me that he could simply have gone to the Dutch embassy.
Not sure if they would have let him in though. It's not like he's a Dutch spy or anything.

 

[Eddie Dane]

Oh interesting: The hotel where he was staying has no security cameras. Or at least, not anymore.
There is speculation that the footage was shot by the FBI.

(according to some Dutch newspapers)

There are even some conspiracy theories now.
The whole thing was a set up, apparently.
Some members of Islamic forums suspect that the Jews are behind it.

I remain slightly skeptical.

 

[Stellafane]

Oh and regarding his first confession on hidden camera:
He is a compulsive liar, who never tells a story twice in the same way.
The tape was made by a sensationalist journalist, not the cops.
The undercover guy and him where smoking weed, the whole time. Joran was completely stoned.

A lot of things that don't exactly make this courtroom material.

Maybe not. Then again, when your prime suspect freely and voluntarily confessess to the murder on videotape, regardless of the circumstances it ought to be something that catches the attention of legal authorities. Not so in this case, however, where the Aruban response was more or less "Oh isn't that so cute, Joran's just being Joran." If I were a member of the Holloway family, my frustration with Aruban officials would know no bounds.

I suspect Peru is not going to make the same mistake. And if by some miracle van der Sloot walks again, he'll still face trial for extortion in Alabama -- after which, his stay in their penal system may make him pine for the good old days back in Lima.

 

[Stellafane]

Oh interesting: The hotel where he was staying has no security cameras. Or at least, not anymore.
There is speculation that the footage was shot by the FBI.

(according to some Dutch newspapers)

There are even some conspiracy theories now.
The whole thing was a set up, apparently.
Some members of Islamic forums suspect that the Jews are behind it.

I remain slightly skeptical.

Oh, I'm sure some people will soon be saying the whole thing started because he did a cartwheel in the police station or something.

 

[fuelair]

What DR wrote. Law-and-order types like Quad rooting for criminality are a real hoot.

Some of us law-and-order types mean by that that actual justice is done. Unfortunately, the criminal justice system takes O account of the impacts of the crime on survivors and the impact of the acts committed in the crime on the now dead victim. Some of us do. If the victim was tortured, I am fine with the criminal being tortured the same way. I believe in punishment/penalties that are educational.

 

[Resume]

I believe in punishment/penalties that are educational.

Informed, proportional punishment. I like it.

 

[Suddenly]

Unfortunately, the criminal justice system takes O account of the impacts of the crime on survivors and the impact of the acts committed in the crime on the now dead victim. Some of us do.

Which system is this?

In the US it is rare when sentencing factors do not take that into account. Parole boards generally consider it as well. I know I get a victim impact statement in every pre-sentence report....

 

[fuelair]

Which system is this?

In the US it is rare when sentencing factors do not take that into account. Parole boards generally consider it as well. I know I get a victim impact statement in every pre-sentence report....

With absolutely no offense, I am aware of that but it is not functionally adequate. Let's use a moderately common example: woman is grabbed, forced into a car, taken to a place where she is tied up, cut multiple times and or beaten badly, raped and left to die, burned alive, choked slowly to death, hit until dead. Report goes in and the murderer+ instead of 5 years gets 10. 10 years where his food is reasonably good, he gets tv, has no cost for keep, free medical care. And, if he behaves, most systems have a required procedure where he gets specific time off the sentence for good behavior. As a relative of the victim, I would see that as nothing. I want it to feel like the victim did - rest of life nothing but fear and pain. Anything less is simply not justice - though it may be legal.

If this is not clear, I want violent criminals exterminated as they exterminated their victim(s). It may not stop violent crime, but I will feel better and I do not think I am the only one. And I feel no guilt of any kind over it.

 

[Aitch]

If this is not clear, I want violent criminals exterminated as they exterminated their victim(s). It may not stop violent crime, but I will feel better and I do not think I am the only one. And I feel no guilt of any kind over it.

I think that the received wisdom is that it would probably make things worse, in as much as violent criminals would make damn sure there were no surviving witnesses to their crimes.

 

[Aoidoi]

I know, right? Really, some people never learn...

It wasn't enough for him that he barely got away with one murder of worldwide notoriety? He had to do it again? Again? AGAIN?! Wasn't the first time more than enough?

Didn't he learn not to kill any more young ladies while on vacation?

He's been trying to cut back.

 

[Resume]

He's been trying to cut back.

He will be now.

 

[Resume]

I think that the received wisdom is that it would probably make things worse, in as much as violent criminals would make damn sure there were no surviving witnesses to their crimes.

In many cases, they do that now.

 

[Suddenly]

With absolutely no offense, I am aware of that but it is not functionally adequate. Let's use a moderately common example: woman is grabbed, forced into a car, taken to a place where she is tied up, cut multiple times and or beaten badly, raped and left to die, burned alive, choked slowly to death, hit until dead. Report goes in and the murderer+ instead of 5 years gets 10. 10 years where his food is reasonably good, he gets tv, has no cost for keep, free medical care. And, if he behaves, most systems have a required procedure where he gets specific time off the sentence for good behavior. As a relative of the victim, I would see that as nothing. I want it to feel like the victim did - rest of life nothing but fear and pain. Anything less is simply not justice - though it may be legal.

Torture murders aren't all that common.

In pretty much every jurisdiction a that kind of murder is going to get you life without the possibility of parole if not a death sentence. A five or ten year sentence would be highly weird.

I spend a lot of time in prisons, talking to prisoners most of whom aren't going anywhere. The prison where I usually work/visit is probably one of the safest places to do time in part because if you behave you are treated well. Even so, if you don't think a life without parole sentence isn't a complete nightmare, you are mistaken. Maybe some of them try to act tough and stoic and such, but I've seen enough of toughest sobbing their eyes out over their fate to know better.... and that is in a pretty tame prison.

If this is not clear, I want violent criminals exterminated as they exterminated their victim(s). It may not stop violent crime, but I will feel better and I do not think I am the only one. And I feel no guilt of any kind over it.

If nothing else, the error rate should slow down people a bit as to this. Personally, I like to think the state has a moral duty to not act like the worst of it's criminals, but ignoring that torturing the innocent to death is totally unacceptable. The rare case of an innocent doing a life sentence is alarming and awful, but nowhere near the same level.

 

[Resume]

Even so, if you don't think a life without parole sentence isn't a complete nightmare, you are mistaken. Maybe some of them try to act tough and stoic and such, but I've seen enough of toughest sobbing their eyes out over their fate to know better.... and that is in a pretty tame prison.



.

Boo-effing-hoo. No disrespect to your experience but it you want stoicism, how about a woman I know who recently buried her two teenage sons, murdered and mutilated by a drug gang in an unsuccessful attempt to get at her low-life brother. She received their remains like garbage in cinch-sacks.

Please forgive me not getting all misty-eyed over some murdering thug's life sentence.

 

[Ladewig]

Some of us law-and-order types mean by that that actual justice is done. Unfortunately, the criminal justice system takes O account of the impacts of the crime on survivors and the impact of the acts committed in the crime on the now dead victim. Some of us do. If the victim was tortured, I am fine with the criminal being tortured the same way. I believe in punishment/penalties that are educational.

Does this apply only to capital offenses or are other felonies included (i.e. rapists are raped, wife beaters are beaten)?

Does the state hire a torturer or does the family get to choose a torturer?

Do you have an opinion about why no country in the modern world does this?

Would you consider starting a new thread about this topic?

 

[Agular]

I know, right?

WHAT- IN- THE- NAME- OF- THE- SWEET- BABY- JESUS- WAS- HE-THINKING?!?!??!?!??!?!?

Even an innocent person falsely accused of the murder of a teenage girl while in a foreign country and miraculously saved from going to prison over it would learn to stay clear of the law for ever more after that. They wouldn't do anything even remotely approaching illegal for a long, long, long time. Never again put themselves in a position where they might get themselves in trouble, especially while in a foreign nation.

Let alone a guilty person rightly accused.

I don't believe in rape as punishment but I too find it very hard- very, very hard- to feel sympathy for him.

What was he thinking? Twice arrested in Aruba for murder...set free.

Alleged human trafficking? No charges. (maybe lies though)

Tried to extort the Holloway family? Another Aruban/FBI screw up.

He was thinking that he was bullet-proof.