Private militias are criminal gangs.

[leftysergeant]

so how does this not apply to municipal police departments?

They are recognized by the state as a government function.

or even the boy scouts? i learned to how use and maintain a rifle, and how to load and fire a shotgun while in the boy scouts, how does that not make me a criminal in your mind?

You didn't form into a fighting unit under a designated combat leader, did you?

 

[leftysergeant]

So they don't "have a command structure and train with weapons."?

Be careful and keep a sharp eye to your rear. It's easy to trip and fall down when you're backtracking that fast.

They do not constitute operational units. They are just an educational display. More theater than anything else.

 

[Neally]

In the majority of states the organizations themselves (as in WA) or the things that they do which make them dangerous are clearly prohibited by law.

The fact is, the majority of states do not prohibit militias, nor does the federal government. Your belief and repetition does not make it so.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

You didn't form into a fighting unit under a designated combat leader, did you?

ok, ill admit, i did not learn those things in the BSA (although i was a scout for 5 years) i learned them a virtually identical group called the Calvinist Cadet Corps
so, to take an interpretation as loose as yours, we were organized into a unit to fight the evil of satan and the enemies of christianity under the leadership of a counselor, who manages 10-20 cadets, a clubmaster who manages 5-10 groups of cadets, a council board which oversees 3-5 clubs, and cadet congress which manages all clubs and councils nationwide, all under god as the highest leader, are they not a militia?



PS: i bet the religious aspect makes it doubly criminal as far as your concerned

 

[leftysergeant]

PS: i bet the religious aspect makes it doubly criminal as far as your concerned

If they taught you that , should the need arise, you would need to actually engage flesh-and-blood individuals with small arms fire to advance your religious cause, that makes you the American Taliban.

 

[applecorped]

Originally Posted by defaultdotxbe
PS: i bet the religious aspect makes it doubly criminal as far as your concerned

If they taught you that , should the need arise, you would need to actually engage flesh-and-blood individuals with small arms fire to advance your religious cause, that makes you the American Taliban.

That didn't take long.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

If they taught you that , should the need arise, you would need to actually engage flesh-and-blood individuals with small arms fire to advance your religious cause, that makes you the American Taliban.

and the goalpost moves yet again


so what of private militias that have a command structure, train with weapons, organize into combat groups under a designated leader, but do not engage in actual combat? do you believe no one in a war reenactment group would "engage flesh-and-blood individuals"should the need arise"?





(BTW i quit the cadets about 12 years ago and am currently an atheist, i still however find my time with them very rewarding)

 

[leftysergeant]

Actually, some of the more odious gun bans in the USA, such as those in California in the late 1960s and 1970s were directed, originally, at disarming a militia that scared the rightwhackers stupid.

I agree that they had to be disarmed, but banning handguns except for those with concelaled pistol licenses (which were issued on a my-issue basis) totally sucks.

 

[leftysergeant]

and the goalpost moves yet again


so what of private militias that have a command structure, train with weapons, organize into combat groups under a designated leader, but do not engage in actual combat?

If their stated intent is to do so on their own initiative, they are engaged in a criminal conspiracy. Most of them are organized with that intent.

do you believe no one in a war reenactment group would "engage flesh-and-blood individuals"should the need arise"?

I am sure they would be more inclined to participate in operations to restore order after a riot breaks out, but that is not what their group exists for.
Most of the whackadoodle militias are looking for an excuse to go berserk.

 

[rwguinn]

I've never seen goalposts move at "Warp factor 2" before...

 

[leftysergeant]

Actually, the KKK, Black Panthers and the Crips and Bloods are all or were all at one time or another, militias. That's part of the problewm. They cange how they identify themselves just to keep enough of as toe inside the coverage of the law not to get hauled away at once. The law can't always keep up with their changing operational doctrine.

 

[Neally]

Actually, the KKK, Black Panthers and the Crips and Bloods are all or were all at one time or another, militias.

Evidence?

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Actually, the KKK, Black Panthers and the Crips and Bloods are all or were all at one time or another, militias. That's part of the problewm. They cange how they identify themselves just to keep enough of as toe inside the coverage of the law not to get hauled away at once. The law can't always keep up with their changing operational doctrine.

actually it seems like you are the one changing how you identify a militia in order to haul away groups you dont like

when did the crips and bloods ever identify themselves as a military force?

 

[Bob Klase]

I've never seen goalposts move at "Warp factor 2" before...

I've never seen such a masterful combination of moving goalposts and 'no true militia' fallacies before. I'm only still reading this thread to see how many more logical fallacies he can throw in the mix before even the fallacies become contradictory.

 

[rwguinn]

I've never seen such a masterful combination of moving goalposts and 'no true militia' fallacies before. I'm only still reading this thread to see how many more logical fallacies he can throw in the mix before even the fallacies become contradictory.

I think the goalposts have "gone Plaid" by now...
I'm rather enjoying his backpedaling...

 

[Bob Klase]

I think the goalposts have "gone Plaid" by now...
I'm rather enjoying his backpedaling...

Actually I may have been giving too much credit. While the combination may have been masterful, moving the goal and no true Scots are sometimes so similar that both will apply without even making an effort.

 

[Rogue1stclass]

They are an educational society devoted to preserving part of American history, not a bunch of malcontnets intent on restructuring society when they decide the government has gone too far.

That's the goofiest arguement you have yet presented. THis is another educational and artistic society devoted to preserving knowledge of a long past period of history, and entirely a social activity clearly within the coverage of the 1st Ammendment.

So what? They are still, by your interpretation of the RCW and your own definition of what constitutes a "military organization", illegal. They have command structures, train with weapons, and present themselves as military companies not recognized by the state of Washington.

And don't think that just because these are hobbyist organizations that they doen't have their share of political wackos. They are both magnets for CTers and survivalists. SCAers in particularly are desperate for some real life application of their expensive and, let's face it, kinda goofy hobby and many of them would love nothing more than some apocolyptic event to "show them. Show them all!"

And that is exactly what groups like the Washington State Militia and Militia of Montana and that sick pack of whackadoodles are, and exactly what RCW 38.40.120 and Wyoming Statutes 19-1-106 address.address

The thing is, though, that militia groups in and of themselves do not violate these laws. Until they actually take some kind of action, they are just hobbyist groups like the Civil War re-enactors and the SCA. They have the protections of the 1st and when necessary 2nd Amendments just like anyone else.

No, they clearly have not.

No, you think that that they should not, but they clearly do. Please don't confuse your desire with reality.

By existing, they do that. When the idiot who put together the Washington State Militia was busted, the defense he offered to the general public was "We are the unorganized militia." That, in itself, is a part of the Big Lie that they feed the sheep to recruit the useful idiots to their cause.

No, they don't. The state of Washington does actually define the "unorganized militia" as being all able bodied citizens and people seeking citizenship over the age of 18 (RCW 38.04.030). Obviously, only the state can actually call out the militia, but training for such a day that might happen is not automatically claiming military authority.

It's also important to note that the Washington State Militia was busted for illegal weapons and assault on law enforcement, not being a militia.

 

[leftysergeant]

So what? They are still, by your interpretation of the RCW and your own definition of what constitutes a "military organization", illegal. They have command structures, train with weapons, and present themselves as military companies not recognized by the state of Washington.

For the purpose of education, not to overthrow any authority should they decide that government has become corrupt.

SCAers in particularly are desperate for some real life application of their expensive and, let's face it, kinda goofy hobby and many of them would love nothing more than some apocolyptic event to "show them. Show them all!"

Must be some dynamite drugs avaiable where you are. I have not met anyone in An Tir who would be at all dangerous if the Republicants and Libertarians got so badly trounced that they wound up trailing the Communists. Most of them are really bright, but a little hedonistic.

The thing is, though, that militia groups in and of themselves do not violate these laws.

The Washington State Militia di violate a law just by existing. And those freaks really meant it. They are NOT hobbyists.

They have the protections of the 1st and when necessary 2nd Amendments just like anyone else.

First Ammendment rights do not include screaming "FIRE" in a crowded theater. Do educate yourself on that point. They are, in that regard, no different from the Sturmabteilung.

No, they don't. The state of Washington does actually define the "unorganized militia" as being all able bodied citizens and people seeking citizenship over the age of 18 (RCW 38.04.030). Obviously, only the state can actually call out the militia, but training for such a day that might happen is not automatically claiming military authority.

But it is ursurping the authority of the state to train the unorganized militia into a force which will, when needed, not turn their guns on the governor rather than on the white nationalists who have decided that this is to be part of the whites-only "homeland."

 

[defaultdotxbe]

The Washington State Militia di violate a law just by existing. And those freaks really meant it. They are NOT hobbyists.

then why do they still exist? why are there multiple militia groups in washington state? and indeed every state you claim "clearly prohibits" them?

 

[leftysergeant]

then why do they still exist? why are there multiple militia groups in washington state? and indeed every state you claim "clearly prohibits" them?

The courts blow a fuse when the cops start hauling in even the obviously illegal ones like the Crips. We just do not have the number of law enforcement officers it would take to catch them all. Add to that the fact that the ones that escape the first sweep would probably start a wave of terrorism unseen since the Ukranians realised how badly they had been had by the Nazis.

The militias are still illegal and, with idiots like Angle spouting off about how they might be the only solution left to correct the "Harry Reid problem," they may very well be the cause of untold suffering in the near future.

The unorganised militia is just the body of persons who can be brought into the service of their states should the need arise. When the need arises, they will, supposedly, be trained in the UCMJ, codes of conduct, chain of command and such subjects in addition to the normal tactical training. They are not to be trained to the standards of dirtbags who refuse to recognise the legitimacy of the only body authorised to train them. The end result would be an absence of persons suitable to answer the call when the unorganised militia needs to be called into service.