Mossad agent arrested in Hamas assassination case

[funk de fino]

Have you taken a tumble down the stairs head first? I've already clarified this as stating that I have issues in using real names on passports used for operations such as these, not the overall issue with using fake passports.

Then your reply to me intially was irrelevant and bore no relation to anything I said? I'll just ignore your ramblings in future and deal with the ones that do have a smidgeon to do with the initial post. Your post made no sense at all. OK?

I find it quite entertaining that you are still running with this. Should think twice about hitting the reply button to this ranting of yours. But continue whinging about how using fake passports equates to cowardice.

As an ex serviceman I say they are cowards. Sneak into Palestine and kill him. Do not crap in your own doorstep.

 

[DC]

I don't know what this means, and if this is some sort of connecting evidence, quote it.

Britain's Serious and Organized Crime Agency found the forged British passports were copies of authentic documents handed to Israeli officials for inspection either in Israel or other countries, Miliband said. He said the fakes were high-quality and almost certainly "made by a state intelligence service."

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=171611

 

[bigjelmapro]

Then your reply to me intially was irrelevant and bore no relation to anything I said? I'll just ignore your ramblings in future and deal with the ones that do have a smidgeon to do with the initial post. Your post made no sense at all. OK?

It did, you just don't seem to understand it. I explained after you requested clarification, but ignored it.

As an ex serviceman I say they are cowards. Sneak into Palestine and kill him. Do not crap in your own doorstep.

Why not do it in a corrupt, terrorist meeting place like Dubai?

You might be an x-serviceman, like myself (albeit, I still do reserve duty), but you don't know squat about taking down those pesky terrorist leader heads that run around disguised as women. There have been attempts, but failed in the past.

f you fail, try, try again is a motto you're familiar with, right?

Anyways, put me on ignore, could care less. Your posts don't really add much to the debate anyways. Ta ta.

 

[bigjelmapro]

http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=171611
Britain's Serious and Organized Crime Agency found the forged British passports were copies of authentic documents handed to Israeli officials for inspection either in Israel or other countries, Miliband said. He said the fakes were high-quality and almost certainly "made by a state intelligence service."

When referring to Israeli officials, does one mean passport checks at an airport or an embassy?

 

[funk de fino]

It did, you just don't seem to understand it. I explained after you requested clarification, but ignored it.

No it did not. I was making a statement. You answered a question that was not asked of you. I did not ask if you agreed with it. You decided to butt in and make up an answer to a question that was never asked.

Why not do it in a corrupt, terrorist meeting place like Dubai?

Thats not your choice to make. Bias again eh? It is despicable way to act and has led to major embarrassments in the past for Israel. Innocent people died.

You might be an x-serviceman, like myself (albeit, I still do reserve duty), but you don't know squat about taking down those pesky terrorist leader heads that run around disguised as women. There have been attempts, but failed in the past.

I know the cowardly way to do it. You use a helicopter gunship to do it in Gaza then I couldn't care less. You sneak into Gaza and do it, the same.

If you fail, try, try again is a motto you're familiar with, right?

Not in other people countries with other peoples passports.

Anyways, put me on ignore, could care less. Your posts don't really add much to the debate anyways. Ta ta.

I will not put you on ignore I will ignore in future those posts that do not address the post in any way. It's too funny reading your tall tales and commenting on them to ignore you.

 

[funk de fino]

When referring to Israeli officials, does one mean passport checks at an airport or an embassy?

Ask Miliband not DC.

 

[bigjelmapro]

No it did not. I was making a statement. You answered a question that was not asked of you. I did not ask if you agreed with it. You decided to butt in and make up an answer to a question that was never asked.

All the replies posted above were replies made by you to me. I agreed with you on almost all counts except the cowardice charge, which as of yet, you still haven't justified. Then you went off to the deep end in rants....

Thats not your choice to make. Bias again eh? It is despicable way to act and has led to major embarrassments in the past for Israel. Innocent people died.

Not my choice. Measured response by intelligence agencies. What does bias have to do with taking out a known terrorist head? Nothing.

Despicable? Compared to what? Leveling a building? The point of these operations is to kill with the minimal amount of collateral damage. Up close and personal.

You as an x-serviceman should understand the concept of meeting a military objective, which is this case was justifiable. The only issue you've been harping on about is the use of passports from other nationalities, which linked earlier, is not unique to Israeli intelligence services.

I know the cowardly way to do it. You use a helicopter gunship to do it in Gaza then I couldn't care less. You sneak into Gaza and do it, the same.

So excessive collateral damage is ok in your book. Sneaking into a heavily populated hostile area seems more logical than following your target to an easily accesible hotel.

Sticking to this failed argument for dear life I see.

Not in other people countries with other peoples passports.

But gunships and missiles, ok. Just as long as 500 million people aren't potentially put on a no-fly list.

I guess waiting in queue is worse dilemma and harder to live with for Brits these days than knowing the other US/NATO approach of firing a missile or dropping a 500lbs bomb on a complex killing scores more.

I will not put you on ignore I will ignore in future those posts that do not address the post in any way. It's too funny reading your tall tales and commenting on them to ignore you.

Its hilarious following your half-baked logic. You by chance hammering away in a smokeshop in Amsterdam? Would make a bit more sense, but not too much.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Ask Miliband not DC.

Yes, I'll write him immediately, but I guess your letters of concern would reach him before mine.

 

[DC]

When referring to Israeli officials, does one mean passport checks at an airport or an embassy?

i don't know, but either way, a strange coincidence, don't you think?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

When referring to Israeli officials, does one mean passport checks at an airport or an embassy?

It was at passport control at Tel Aviv airport. The "real" passport holders all held two passports and had travelled through countries hostile to Israel using their non-Israeli passports. When they arrived in Israel, the Israeli passport officer took the non-Israeli passports off them to "check" how they came to Israel. It was at this point that the passports were copied.

When Mi6 and ASIS interviewed the "real" passport holders in Israel they discovered that during the Dubai assassination that Israeli passport officers had telephoned the "real" passport holders numerous times to ask if they were going overseas. (this was to ensure that only one person, the mossad officers, using the name on the passport were travelling)

This was Israel's fatal error. Israel should have watched the "real" passport holders and not simply telephoned them to ask them what they were doing. I imagine that Britain and Australia threatened to cancel the non-Israeli passports of the "real" passport holders if they did not cooperate.

There is something I don't understand. Mossad did not inform the "real" passport holders that their names were used in an assassination. If one of the real passport holders went to Dubai on a holiday they would risk being arrested and the fake passports used against them as evidence. For this reason I'm suspicious that the "real" passport holder knew a little bit more than they stated in their interviews.

 

[bigjelmapro]

It was at passport control at Tel Aviv airport. The "real" passport holders all held two passports and had travelled through countries hostile to Israel using their non-Israeli passports. When they arrived in Israel, the Israeli passport officer took the non-Israeli passports off them to "check" how they came to Israel. It was at this point that the passports were copied.

Where you getting this from?

The practice of holding a clean passport for travel to countries that are not on friendly terms with Israel is usually restricted to those travelling a lot for business and/or pleasure. Its not a common practice, and I haven't read anything regarding those who reside in Israel as using this practice, along that several haven't travelled for some time.

When Mi6 and ASIS interviewed the "real" passport holders in Israel they discovered that during the Dubai assassination that Israeli passport officers had telephoned the "real" passport holders numerous times to ask if they were going overseas. (this was to ensure that only one person, the mossad officers, using the name on the passport were travelling)

Would like to see this source. Seems a bit too sloppy to me...

There is something I don't understand. Mossad did not inform the "real" passport holders that their names were used in an assassination. If one of the real passport holders went to Dubai on a holiday they would risk being arrested and the fake passports used against them as evidence. For this reason I'm suspicious that the "real" passport holder knew a little bit more than they stated in their interviews.

Why would you inform a real passport holder that their passport/name is going to be used in a clandestine operation?

Dubai isn't so much a holiday destination for many Israelis. Mostly for business. But even so, as has been stated, these Israelis didn't travel to Dubai ever, so why would one start to coincidentally during the day of the operation?

 

[Mycroft]

yes, cause committing murder in a foreign land without permission or even informing the gov., using faked passports of REAL LIVE people, is just like..

....jaywalking.

I'm trying to fathom why anyone would get hung up over A and not B. What kind of moral code could possibly put forgery in a worse category than killing people?

Fascinating. It's almost as though you have a disability that only allows you to see portions of a post that lead you to believe it says just the opposite of what it really does say.

Oh well. I guess that save me the effort of trying to reason with you, eh? If nobody's home there's no point in ringing the doorbell, is there?

 

[Mycroft]

Wrong. Many here believe that killing someone like this in another country is wrong regardless of the false passport thing. That is just another cherry on the cake.

Then why make an issue of the passports at all? If the issue is killing someone, then make that your issue.

Cowardly and a botched job.

I disagree. To me it seems daring and successful. The operation ran smoothly, the guy who was supposed to die is most thoroughly dead, nobody else died in the process, and the guys who did it got away.

By any rational measure, it was a most successful operation.

 

[funk de fino]

All the replies posted above were replies made by you to me. I agreed with you on almost all counts except the cowardice charge, which as of yet, you still haven't justified. Then you went off to the deep end in rants....

Is English your first language? Read my first post and your reply. Your reply does not make a lick of sense. I made a staatement and you gave a yes and no reply to a question that was not asked. I was not asking your opinion on anything. I was stating that they were cowards who used false passports. You then said "fake passports, still No". The fact was they did use false passports. OK.

Not my choice. Measured response by intelligence agencies. What does bias have to do with taking out a known terrorist head? Nothing.

You bias is in seeming to believe that it is OK in certain countries. Muslim ones.

Despicable? Compared to what? Leveling a building? The point of these operations is to kill with the minimal amount of collateral damage. Up close and personal.

Do it in your own back garden.

You as an x-serviceman should understand the concept of meeting a military objective, which is this case was justifiable. The only issue you've been harping on about is the use of passports from other nationalities, which linked earlier, is not unique to Israeli intelligence services.

Sneaking about on false passport killing people in other countries is not military.

So excessive collateral damage is ok in your book. Sneaking into a heavily populated hostile area seems more logical than following your target to an easily accesible hotel.

No, if thats what you want to do then do it. I would rather you all got along. You are at conflict with these people arent you? You are not in conflict with Dubai?

Do not kill people in other countries. You screwed it up before and killed innocent people. I felt the same about the Russian killing the journalist here.

Sticking to this failed argument for dear life I see.

que?

But gunships and missiles, ok. Just as long as 500 million people aren't potentially put on a no-fly list.

Do it in your own backyard. Do it like real men. Not sneaky scumbags.

I guess waiting in queue is worse dilemma and harder to live with for Brits these days than knowing the other US/NATO approach of firing a missile or dropping a 500lbs bomb on a complex killing scores more.

Bla bla

Its hilarious following your half-baked logic. You by chance hammering away in a smokeshop in Amsterdam? Would make a bit more sense, but not too much.

Ad hom. Fail.

 

[funk de fino]

Where you getting this from?

The practice of holding a clean passport for travel to countries that are not on friendly terms with Israel is usually restricted to those travelling a lot for business and/or pleasure. Its not a common practice, and I haven't read anything regarding those who reside in Israel as using this practice, along that several haven't travelled for some time.

Think about it. Go back and read it again. You will get it.

Clue - I have two passports. Two UK ones. People with dual nationalities have what kind of passports and how many?

Would like to see this source. Seems a bit too sloppy to me...

Of course it does.......

 

[funk de fino]

Then why make an issue of the passports at all? If the issue is killing someone, then make that your issue.

Because there are two issues here. They should not be sneaking into other countries to kill people. They should not be using people passports to enable them to do it.

OK?

I disagree. To me it seems daring and successful. The operation ran smoothly, the guy who was supposed to die is most thoroughly dead, nobody else died in the process, and the guys who did it got away.

By any rational measure, it was a most successful operation.

Except they were shown all over the world. It was a botched job. Outcome was as they wanted as far as the dead man goes but not if you look at how this has turned out for Israel. One man was worth all that?

And as someone who has faced an enemy, I do not care if you agree with whether it is cowardly or not. What is the most daring thing you have done?

 

[funk de fino]

Yes, I'll write him immediately, but I guess your letters of concern would reach him before mine.

Why would I be concerned with him blaming the people who did it?

 

[bigjelmapro]

Is English your first language? Read my first post and your reply. Your reply does not make a lick of sense. I made a staatement and you gave a yes and no reply to a question that was not asked. I was not asking your opinion on anything. I was stating that they were cowards who used false passports. You then said "fake passports, still No". The fact was they did use false passports. OK.

Does it matter if it is? You asked for clarification, you got it, now you keep asking the same question. So here it is again: I have problems with intelligence agencies using real names, no issue with them using false passports.

Doesn't matter which language I speak in this case. Move on or I'll just skim over this stubborn drivel.

You bias is in seeming to believe that it is OK in certain countries. Muslim ones.

I think its ok in any country where such a target travels to. So not restricted to Muslim ones. But nice try at pigeonholing.

Do it in your own back garden.

Dubai is.

Sneaking about on false passport killing people in other countries is not military.

You're right, its covert ops.

No, if thats what you want to do then do it. I would rather you all got along. You are at conflict with these people arent you? You are not in conflict with Dubai?

Does it matter? Dubai wasn't attacked, he was whilst in Dubai doing his dirty terrorist business.

Do not kill people in other countries. You screwed it up before and killed innocent people. I felt the same about the Russian killing the journalist here.

Killing people in other countries is a bit general and I would hazard a guess that this is the modus operandi of military or whatnot. British could lead the way, but hey, they're also killing 'people in other countries'.

Nice guilt by association bit though with the journalist killed. The hit on this guy in Dubai was an actual proven terrorist. But don't let that fact bother another golden line of reasoning.

que?

Playing stupid won't make it go away.

Do it in your own backyard. Do it like real men. Not sneaky scumbags.

Yeah, fight club! You can stop being a hypocrite at any point now.

Bla bla

In reference to your 'que?'

Ad hom. Fail.

Was a quip, but you can set it next to your mountain of fallacies and failed logic pile of you wish.

 

[funk de fino]

Does it matter if it is? You asked for clarification, you got it, now you keep asking the same question. So here it is again: I have problems with intelligence agencies using real names, no issue with them using false passports.

I did not want clarification of that now. I wanted it when you made an irrelevant nonsense reply to my post. All you had to say was that you misundertodd my post. I do not care what your opinion of this is. I was not asking for it. When you said "fake passports - still no" it made no sense. It looked like you were claming they were not fake. Your following post reinforced that.

If I do not ask you a question it's a pretty good indication I do not want an answer from you, OK? That should avoid our confusion in future.

Doesn't matter which language I speak in this case. Move on or I'll just skim over this stubborn drivel.

I am trying to figure out how you could answer a non question. Most English speakers would not have done that.

I think its ok in any country where such a target travels to. So not restricted to Muslim ones. But nice try at pigeonholing.

Your description of Dubai was telling as far as bias goes. How many times have you been there?

Would you support MOSSAD doing it in Glasgow? On US/UK passports.

Dubai is.

No, it's not. Gaza is. Scared to go there? Is that why you built a big wall?

You're right, its covert ops.

Cowardly and non military. Check.

Does it matter? Dubai wasn't attacked, he was whilst in Dubai doing his dirty terrorist business.

Yes, it matters. You and your country do not have carte blanche to go and kill people you do not like in those countries. If you were in conflict with Dubai then it would change this. You are not.

Killing people in other countries is a bit general and I would hazard a guess that this is the modus operandi of military or whatnot. British could lead the way, but hey, they're also killing 'people in other countries'.

You can guess all you want. They (UK) are engaged in conflicts. Not sneaking about with others passports killing people in other countries.

I guess this is where you make up more stories about what you have heard eh?

Nice guilt by association bit though with the journalist killed. The hit on this guy in Dubai was an actual proven terrorist. But don't let that fact bother another golden line of reasoning.

He may have been, but it was wrong to kill him in Dubai. Especially after your killing of an innocent previously.

Playing stupid won't make it go away.

Your was the stupid post, not mine. You want to make up stupid non arguments do not expect anyone to answer them.

Yeah, fight club! You can stop being a hypocrite at any point now.

Hypocrite? You must clarify that classic.

In reference to your 'que?'

See non arguments answer again.

Was a quip, but you can set it next to your mountain of fallacies and failed logic pile of you wish.

Sorry, those fallacies would be yours. Stick to namecalling. It seems to be what you excel at. Along with making up stories. Where did that LongtabberPE go?

 

[bigjelmapro]

I did not want clarification of that now. I wanted it when you made an irrelevant nonsense reply to my post. All you had to say was that you misundertodd my post. I do not care what your opinion of this is. I was not asking for it. When you said "fake passports - still no" it made no sense. It looked like you were claming they were not fake. Your following post reinforced that.

All I hear is whinging about someone responding to your post on a public forum. The part you kept bolding though was a line of responses addressed to me. I don't even know why you keep bringing this up. But its confirmed stubbornness.

'It looked like you...' was clarified, followed by more whinging on your part, followed by another clarification, followed by more whinging. Don't think I missed much.

If I do not ask you a question it's a pretty good indication I do not want an answer from you, OK? That should avoid our confusion in future.

Whinge+1. Don't want a response, take it to PMing. Capiche?

Your description of Dubai was telling as far as bias goes. How many times have you been there?

Why? That Dubai is a favorite destination spot for terrorist organizations? Somehow you managed to pull a 'bias' out of there. Doesn't matter if I've been there, much less that you've ever been to Gaza in reference to you thinking its part of Israel, surrounded by a wall, and that somehow its easy to hit 1 person with a gunship.

Would you support MOSSAD doing it in Glasgow? On US/UK passports.

Probably would question why the UK would allow in a known Hamas terrorist in the first place, but wouldn't really surprise me these days anyways. If he went there, sure.

No, it's not. Gaza is. Scared to go there? Is that why you built a big wall?

There's no wall around Gaza, its a chainlink fence. Gaza isn't part of Israel. Gaza is difficult to operate in seeing as Shalit hasn't been found (if he's still in Gaza) and other terrorist heads are difficult to kill there as well.

Why do you keep addressing this to me though? In regards to logistics, significantly less collateral damage, and actually confirming the kill of the intended target (in opposition to drone strikes in Afghanistan/Pakistan by the US), killing this terrorist in Dubai is a no-brainer.

Yes, it matters. You and your country do not have carte blanche to go and kill people you do not like in those countries. If you were in conflict with Dubai then it would change this. You are not.

We do not like? This isn't a popularity contest of forcefully changing government figures, which the UK and the US has a history of doing. Its a hit on a known terrorist. If Dubai has an issue in having this known terrorist being killed on theri soil, then don't allow in said terrorist

You can guess all you want. They (UK) are engaged in conflicts. Not sneaking about with others passports killing people in other countries.

Israel is engaged in armed conflict with Hamas. But really, I don't even think you know what the concept of covert operations are. Pretending as if the UK has never done it to boot.

Then again, following this stellar line of reasoning, I guess you would prefer Israel to declare war on Dubai and simply level the entire hotel. Just as long as no UK passports are used, right?

I guess this is where you make up more stories about what you have heard eh?

Still not blue in the face eh?

He may have been, but it was wrong to kill him in Dubai. Especially after your killing of an innocent previously.

What innocent are you referring to? This argument is hanging on a single innocent killed? Swiss cheese again.

See non arguments answer again.

You know what this was a response to. The preference in using a gunship in a densely populated area rather than using another nation's passport to kill a terrorist directly.