Obama administration to sue Arizona.

[funk de fino]

If wanting to enforce the law makes one a bigot, then I suppose the majority of Americans are bigots.

Certainly the ones in charge in AZ seem to be.

 

[Piscivore]

I wouldn't really care.

Why not, if it about "enforcing the law"?

But I doubt it would be something that the states would be interested in doing because federal tax cheats don't really affect them while illegal aliens residing in their state do.

Presumably people not paying their Fed taxes are not paying their state taxes either, right?

 

[dtugg]

Certainly the ones in charge in AZ seem to be.

The majority of Americans agree with those in charge in AZ. Therefore, the majority of Americans are bigots, yes?

 

[funk de fino]

The majority of Americans agree with those in charge in AZ. Therefore, the majority of Americans are bigots, yes?

You tell me. Those Americans did not write that statute. A bigot wrote the statute. Brewer is a bigot too. I do not meet too many like them in my travels. Luckily.

PS - Did the US vote on whether they agreed with AZ? I must have missed it.

 

[dtugg]

Why not, if it about "enforcing the law"?

I don't really care about this law either. I just don't understand how enforcing the law makes Arizona a bunch of bigots.

Presumably people not paying their Fed taxes are not paying their state taxes either, right?

Good point. The state should go after people who are state tax cheats and if they also happen to be federal tax cheats, report them to the IRS.

 

[dtugg]

You tell me. Those Americans did not write that statute. A bigot wrote the statute. Brewer is a bigot too. I do not meet too many like them in my travels. Luckily.

PS - Did the US vote on whether they agreed with AZ? I must have missed it.

So most Americans just happen to agree with those supposed bigots? Oh, and there was a poll cited earlier which shows that they do.

 

[BeAChooser]

PS - Did the US vote on whether they agreed with AZ? I must have missed it.

Polls indicate that if US citizens were asked to vote on the AZ law, they'd pass it.

And we already know that the Federal government passed a law that is for all intents and purposes identical. You didn't miss that, did you?

 

[Piscivore]

I don't really care about this law either. I just don't understand how enforcing the law makes Arizona a bunch of bigots.

Because most of the people living here that are all of a sudden deeply concerned about "enforcing the law" only care about enforcing this law. Because we don't have anyone proposing that we enforce any other Federal laws in the extreme manner they want this law enforced.

Good point. The state should go after people who are state tax cheats and if they also happen to be federal tax cheats, report them to the IRS.

Do you think it should be the duty of sate and city law enforcement to determine if someone is a Federal tax cheat before doing so?

Do you think that enforcing Federal tax law should be a priority for state an city law enforcement agencies?

Do you think state and city law enforcement agency leaders should be criminally punished for setting policies that may shift enforcement priorities away from enforcing Federal tax law, regardless of the needs of the community?

Do you think state law should seek to prevent people from getting a job unless they can prove they are not a Federal tax cheat?

 

[rwguinn]

Because most of the people living here that are all of a sudden deeply concerned about "enforcing the law" only care about enforcing this law. Because we don't have anyone proposing that we enforce any other Federal laws in the extreme manner they want this law enforced.



Do you think it should be the duty of sate and city law enforcement to determine if someone is a Federal tax cheat before doing so?

Do you think that enforcing Federal tax law should be a priority for state an city law enforcement agencies?

Do you think state and city law enforcement agency leaders should be criminally punished for setting policies that may shift enforcement priorities away from enforcing Federal tax law, regardless of the needs of the community?

Do you think state law should seek to prevent people from getting a job unless they can prove they are not a Federal tax cheat?

Be careful. It's storm season, and a lightning strike can cause all that straw you're stacking to catch fire and do damage.

 

[dtugg]

Because most of the people living here that are all of a sudden deeply concerned about "enforcing the law" only care about enforcing this law. Because we don't have anyone proposing that we enforce any other Federal laws in the extreme manner they want this law enforced.

Yeah, I am sure that the fact that illegal immigration causes the state problems and the fact that the feds do a piss poor job of enforcing the law by themselves has nothing to do with it.

Do you think it should be the duty of sate and city law enforcement to determine if someone is a Federal tax cheat before doing so?

Do you think that enforcing Federal tax law should be a priority for state an city law enforcement agencies?

Do you think state and city law enforcement agency leaders should be criminally punished for setting policies that may shift enforcement priorities away from enforcing Federal tax law, regardless of the needs of the community?

Do you think state law should seek to prevent people from getting a job unless they can prove they are not a Federal tax cheat?

If you can establish that federal tax cheats cause the state problems and that the federal government does a horrible job of enforcing the law, the analogy might be apt.

 

[funk de fino]

Polls indicate that if US citizens were asked to vote on the AZ law, they'd pass it.

Polls then. Not as dtugg claimed.

And we already know that the Federal government passed a law that is for all intents and purposes identical. You didn't miss that, did you?

when did they pass it and is it exactly the same?

 

[funk de fino]

So most Americans just happen to agree with those supposed bigots? Oh, and there was a poll cited earlier which shows that they do.

False claim again.

 

[dtugg]

Polls then. Not as dtugg claimed.

I never claimed otherwise. Perhaps you don't understand what a poll is. It is where they ask a bunch of people questions and the results can be extrapolated to whole population. This one showed that 58% of Americans support Arizona's new law.

False claim again.

Nope. Unless in your universe, 58% somehow does not equal most.

 

[funk de fino]

I never claimed otherwise. Perhaps you don't understand what a poll is. It is where they ask a bunch of people questions and the results can be extrapolated to whole population. This one showed that 58% of Americans support Arizona's new law.

Exactly it is a poll. It is not the opinion of the American people. They do not agree with anyone. A poll suggests some of them do.

Thats not what you said.

Nope. Unless in your universe, 58% somehow does not equal most.

In my universe when you make a claim you word it correctly.

So most Americans just happen to agree with those supposed bigots?

I note you do not disagree with the fact the guy who wrote it is a bigot?

 

[dtugg]

Exactly it is a poll. It is not the opinion of the American people. They do not agree with anyone. A poll suggests some of them do.

Thats not what you said.



In my universe when you make a claim you word it correctly.

So you were just quibbling over semantics. Got it.

I note you do not disagree with the fact the guy who wrote it is a bigot?

I dunno. Maybe he is. Maybe he is not. Don't really know much about him. Anyway, polls suggest that most Americans agree with him.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

LOL! Does the fact that the Arizona law is IDENTICAL to Federal law mean anything to you regarding legality?

First, it's not identical. You can read Arizona SB 1070 and compare it Title 8 of the U.S.C. They are clearly not identical. Especially since the primary subject of Arizona's law are the duties of state and local police.

Second, ever since we did away with the Articles of Confederation, we have a system where the states are not in fact sovereign nations, and the supremacy clause of the U.S. Constitution notes that federal law is "the supreme law of the land". States cannot rewrite Federal law. There are points where the Arizona law conflicts with Federal law.

Here's a good summary of the legal issues the Fed will probably raise in their suit:
http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/co...ion-law-supremacy-and-federal-preemption.html

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

So most Americans just happen to agree with those supposed bigots? Oh, and there was a poll cited earlier which shows that they do.

Polls indicate that if US citizens were asked to vote on the AZ law, they'd pass it.

And we already know that the Federal government passed a law that is for all intents and purposes identical. You didn't miss that, did you?

And popular sentiment still is not a legal argument. I guarantee you, the court will not consider such polls in this lawsuit.

Logically, it's the bandwagon fallacy.

The fact that this law is popular is no more justification for it than the popularity of slavery justified that institution.

 

[dtugg]

And popular sentiment still is not a legal argument. I guarantee you, the court will not consider such polls in this lawsuit.

Logically, it's the bandwagon fallacy.

The fact that this law is popular is no more justification for it than the popularity of slavery justified that institution.

Since I never said that the popular sentiment should have anything to do with the lawsuit, this is a strawman. I was just asking if it meant that most Americans are bigots.

 

[funk de fino]

So you were just quibbling over semantics. Got it.

I was quibbling over an incorrect claim.

I dunno. Maybe he is. Maybe he is not. Don't really know much about him. Anyway, polls suggest that most Americans agree with him.

Most agree with the bigot? On what do they agree with? This stupid law or all his other bigotted views?

I find it unsurprising supporters of the law want to avoid the guy who apparently wrote it.

 

[funk de fino]

Since I never said that the popular sentiment should have anything to do with the lawsuit, this is a strawman. I was just asking if it meant that most Americans are bigots.

Which is a strawman.