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Obama administration to sue Arizona.

applecorped

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http://content.usatoday.com/communi...sue-over-arizona-immigration-law/1?csp=34news

"Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has told NTN24 station out of Quito, Ecuador, that the Justice Department will sue over Arizona's controversial law cracking down on illegal immigration. "President Obama has spoken out againt the law because he thinks that the federal government should be determining immigration policy, and the Justice Department, under his direction, will be bringing a lawsuit against the act," Clinton told the interviewer."



This should be fun.
 
http://content.usatoday.com/communi...sue-over-arizona-immigration-law/1?csp=34news

"Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton has told NTN24 station out of Quito, Ecuador, that the Justice Department will sue over Arizona's controversial law cracking down on illegal immigration. "President Obama has spoken out againt the law because he thinks that the federal government should be determining immigration policy, and the Justice Department, under his direction, will be bringing a lawsuit against the act," Clinton told the interviewer."



This should be fun.

The Federal government IS determining immigration policy. All that the Arizona law does is enforce Federal law by forwarding any cases of illegal immigration to the Federal authorities tasked with dealing with illegal immigrants. It does so by 1) requiring police officers to do something that they were perfectly able to do voluntarily before, and 2) punish municiple governments that refuse to enforce Federal immigration laws. If Obama's argument is that the Federal government doesn't actually want to enforce it's own laws on the matter, that will be an interesting argument.

It's not like as if Arizona is deporting people.
 
The Federal government IS determining immigration policy. All that the Arizona law does is enforce Federal law by forwarding any cases of illegal immigration to the Federal authorities tasked with dealing with illegal immigrants. It does so by 1) requiring police officers to do something that they were perfectly able to do voluntarily before, and 2) punish municiple governments that refuse to enforce Federal immigration laws. If Obama's argument is that the Federal government doesn't actually want to enforce it's own laws on the matter, that will be an interesting argument.

It's not like as if Arizona is deporting people.

In other words, 1) requiring state and city police officers to act like Federal officers, and 2) usurping the Federal Government's power to punish those that refuse (or fail) to enforce Federal immigration laws as the Federal government sees fit.

Can't imagine why they have a problem with that. This has less to do with "the Obama administration" and a whole lot to do with setting precedents that weaken Federal power. Let's just hope this time round the folks here don't start firing on Fort Huachuca over this.
 
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In other words, 1) requiring state and city police officers to act like Federal officers,

The only people that are allowed to determine a person's immigration status is someone specifically authorized to do so by the federal government.

You would know that had you read the law.
 
The only people that are allowed to determine a person's immigration status is someone specifically authorized to do so by the federal government.

You would know that had you read the law.

I didn't say otherwise. But the law does require that state and city use their time and money arresting people on behalf of the federal government, regardless of their workload or budget.

And anyway, it is the second point that is more germane to the OP.

And I have read the law, I live here.
 
In other words, 1) requiring state and city police officers to act like Federal officers, and 2) usurping the Federal Government's power to punish those that refuse (or fail) to enforce Federal immigration laws as the Federal government sees fit.

They aren't usurping any powers at all. They are requring municipalities to inform ICE (an arm of the federal government) that they have an illegal alien. ICE takes it from there - or doesn't. That's up to ICE. And yes, a state government can indeed impose requirements on inferior governments, as long as those requirements do not violate the Consitution of the US or the Constitution of the state. The state is not actually enforcing Federal immigration law; it is simply passing illegal immigrants on to ICE for ICE to enforce the law. Or not to, as it chooses. If ICE simply says "we don't want them", Arizona would have to release them unless they had some non-immigration related crime to charge them with. That exact thing happens frequently already: a state or municipality will inform ICE that it holding an illegal immigrant, ICE doesn't respond within some threshold amount of time (which I can't remember), the state or municipality has to release the illegal immigrant it is holding. It happens all the time. This would merely (at least, it's the hope of authors of the law) increase the number of illegal immigrants that are held for that threshold amount of time waiting for ICE to respond.

Can't imagine why they have a problem with that. This has less to do with "the Obama administration" and a whole lot to do with setting precedents that weaken Federal power. Let's just hope this time round the folks here don't start firing on Fort Huachuca over this.

This does absolutely nothing to weaken Federal power. The Federal government can choose to simply not enforce it's own immigration law, or it can change that law at whim. Nothing Arizona does requires the Federal government to act in any way. ICE can, for instance, simply refuse to accept or deport any illegals from Arizona (or from any state for that matter). Congress can, for instance, simply pass an amnesty or otherwise change immigrations laws. Nothing that the Arizona law does minimizes Federal power. It might very well pose a political problem, but that is different. The political problem is that there will be political consequences if Arizona is sending tons of Illegals to ICE and ICE does nothing.

In fact, the head of ICE has come right out and said that they won't process illegals from Arizona.

The head of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency, or ICE, told the Chicago Tribune editorial board his agency would not necessarily process any illegals arrested in Arizona.

...

Now about this, the DHS released a statement late this afternoon, saying, quote, "Across the country we exercise lawful discretion in order to focus our efforts on violent and dangerous criminal in order to make our streets safer. The president ordered the DOJ to examine the civil rights and other implications of the Arizona law, and that review will inform the government's actions going forward."

In other words, "we don't want to enforce the law as written, don't embarrass us by making noise about how we aren't enforcing the law because that will cause political problems for us".

I happen to agree with DHS that deporting every illegal immigrant found in the US would be very problematic and that we should instead focus on those arrested for some crime other than simply an immigration violation, but the Federal immigration law doesn't just apply to those arrested for other crimes; it applies to all immigrants here illegally.

If the Federal government doesn't actually want to deport illegal immigrants who have not committed a violent crime, the law should be changed to reflect that. Of course, doing so would have substantial political consequences. There are many people in DC who want to NOT enforce the law to gain support from one constituency while not antagonizing another constituency by making their desires official government policy. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

If Arizona was deporting illegal immigrants, that would be an encroachment on Federal power. If Arizona was holding people who weren't defined by Federal law as illegal immigrants on immigration charges, that would be encroachment on Federal power. Arizona is doing neither.
 
If the Federal government doesn't actually want to deport illegal immigrants who have not committed a violent crime, the law should be changed to reflect that. Of course, doing so would have substantial political consequences. There are many people in DC who want to NOT enforce the law to gain support from one constituency while not antagonizing another constituency by making their desires official government policy. They want to have their cake and eat it too.
I'll agree with that.
 
They aren't usurping any powers at all.

The state is not actually enforcing Federal immigration law

11 G. A PERSON MAY BRING AN ACTION IN SUPERIOR COURT TO CHALLENGE ANY
12 OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL
13 SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE THAT ADOPTS OR IMPLEMENTS A POLICY THAT LIMITS OR
14 RESTRICTS THE ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN THE FULL
15 EXTENT PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW. IF THERE IS A JUDICIAL FINDING THAT AN
16 ENTITY HAS VIOLATED THIS SECTION, THE COURT SHALL ORDER ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
17 1. THAT THE PERSON WHO BROUGHT THE ACTION RECOVER COURT COSTS AND
18 ATTORNEY FEES.
19 2. THAT THE ENTITY PAY A CIVIL PENALTY OF NOT LESS THAN ONE THOUSAND
20 DOLLARS AND NOT MORE THAN FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR EACH DAY THAT THE POLICY
21 HAS REMAINED IN EFFECT AFTER THE FILING OF AN ACTION PURSUANT TO THIS
22 SUBSECTION.
23 H. A COURT SHALL COLLECT THE CIVIL PENALTY PRESCRIBED IN SUBSECTION G
24 AND REMIT THE CIVIL PENALTY TO THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY FOR DEPOSIT IN
25 THE GANG AND IMMIGRATION INTELLIGENCE TEAM ENFORCEMENT MISSION FUND
26 ESTABLISHED BY SECTION 41-1724.
It makes it a crime, punishable by law, to not enforce Federal law to "less than the full extent" That's not the state's job.
 
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I happen to be someone who really, really hates selective enforcement of laws because selective enforcement of laws is one of the big sources of abuses of power. On general principle I do not like the head of ICE saying that they will purposefully selectively enforce the law. If Congress passed a law that amended current immigration law to specify that only those illegal immigrants convicted of a felony were to be deported, I might even support such a law. I don't know, I'd have to think about it. But the law is what it is. If the law is acceptable and doesn't need to be changed, it should be fully enforced. If there is a problem with the law, it should be changed. How that impacts someone's political career, I don't give a donkey's bollocks.
 
I happen to be someone who really, really hates selective enforcement of laws because selective enforcement of laws is one of the big sources of abuses of power.
On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of Zero-tolerance. :)

On general principle I do not like the head of ICE saying that they will purposefully selectively enforce the law. If Congress passed a law that amended current immigration law to specify that only those illegal immigrants convicted of a felony were to be deported, I might even support such a law.
I would. In fact I do.

If the law is acceptable and doesn't need to be changed, it should be fully enforced.
No law is so perfect that exceptions are never in order.

If there is a problem with the law, it should be changed. How that impacts someone's political career, I don't give a donkey's bollocks.
Agreed.
 
It makes it a crime, punishable by law, to not enforce Federal law to "less than the full extent" That's not the state's job.

It makes it a crime, punishable by law, for a municipality to, as a matter of policy, ignore Federal law.

Arizona is not making anyone enforce Federal. IT CAN'T DO THAT, nor does it attemp to do that. Notice that it doesn't criminalize "failure to enforce Federal immigration law", it says "ADOPTS OR IMPLEMENTS A POLICY THAT LIMITS OR RESTRICTS THE ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW."

It is criminalizing, in essence, obstruction of justice. More specifically, willfull policies of inferior governments that obstruct enforcement of Federal law.

Where in the statue does it require it a municipality to actually prosecute someone for an immigration violation? Or deport them? Or apply any other punitive action? That's what "enforcement" entails.

A state can require municipalities to inform ICE of illegals. It can also require municipalities to check the residency status of all people who are arrested. Neither of those is "enforcement" of Federal immigration law.

I guess private employers being required to get your social security number before hiring you makes them "enforcers" of Federal tax law.
 
It makes it a crime, punishable by law, for a municipality to, as a matter of policy, ignore Federal law.

Arizona is not making anyone enforce Federal. IT CAN'T DO THAT, nor does it attemp to do that. Notice that it doesn't criminalize "failure to enforce Federal immigration law", it says "ADOPTS OR IMPLEMENTS A POLICY THAT LIMITS OR RESTRICTS THE ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW."
Meaning, whatever priorities you may think your community requires, enforcing Federal immigration law is now job #1.

No other federal law, just immigration.

If the state, or someone in the state, objects to how the Federal government or their agencies enforce Federal law, it needs to be taken up with the Feds, not making it a crime to not have state and city law enforcement arrest everyone they can for a Federal crime.

It is criminalizing, in essence, obstruction of justice. More specifically, willfull policies of inferior governments that obstruct enforcement of Federal law.
No, it is criminalising enforcing the law to "LESS THAN THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED".

Where in the statue does it require it a municipality to actually prosecute someone for an immigration violation? Or deport them? Or apply any other punitive action? That's what "enforcement" entails.
Ask the guy that wrote the law and used the word "enforcement" throughout. He does not seem to agree with your interpretation.

I guess private employers being required to get your social security number before hiring you makes them "enforcers" of Federal tax law.
Yes, it does. Including penalties for not doing it. How would you like the state to make your local police responsible- including penalties for not doing so to "less than the full extent permitted"- for verifying the tax status of anyone it arrests, and turning those they suspect of tax fraud over to the IRS for auditing- or not- as they see fit, and punishing those employers that do not enforce their part of the tax code in excess of the Federal penalties?
 
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According to a Washington Post poll,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_060810.html?sid=ST2010061700014

58% of Americans support (42% strongly support) the Arizona law. Only 41% oppose the law. And given that this is a WP poll, the real percentages are probably even more supportive of the Arizona law than that. So once again, we find the Obama administration acting contrary to the views of Americans. See what I mean about Stuck On Stupid?
 
BAC, every time you post you give an example of how American conservatives are Stuck on Stupid.

Why?

Because I believe what a clear majority of Americans believe?

Or because I find it hilarious that the Obama administration is going to sue Arizona over a law that is identical to the Federal law? :D
 

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