There are at minimum four independent lines of evidence that demonstrate the presence of jetliners hitting the Twin Towers.The fact that jets hit the Twin Towers is established. The evidence has been in existence for a long time now. If one wants to rebut this evidence, as I noted above, the rebuttals must explain what happened in return. And it must conform to the evidence that does exist. Saying that witnesses could not have seen a jet is contradicted by the wreckage and the radar/electronic data, as well as the video. Saying that the radar data or video was faked is contradicted by the eyewitnesses who clearly saw aircraft hit both towers. Saying that the debris is faked is also contradicted by eyewitnesses, debris, radar, and video. A rebuttal, in order to be a consistent and correct explanation of the event, MUST take into account all the lines of evidence and explain them. It must explain what the witnesses did see. It must explain what the radar recorded. It must explain what the jetliner debris was doing in New York, and how it got there. And it must explain what was recorded by video and film crews. If it does not, then it fails to refute the established narrative. Period.
- Everyone has already cited the eyewitness accounts, but the truther responses to those are inadequate. No one can dismiss those accounts on the basis of them being listed on a specific individual's page, given that the individual in question has linked to original sources, and no one can dismiss them on facile lunacies like the inaccuracy of human recall; while there's not universal agreement on the details of the jets that impacted, every single witness testifies that jets hit. This is indisputable. In order to make refutations to their testimonies to work, those refutations must 1. Demonstrate that a jet was in fact not present, and 2. Establish what the item was that they did see. General issues with witness recall are limited in scope to details and fail to refute the summary of testimonies adding up to jets being present. And stupid requests for "official documentation" in the face of multiple news quotes as well as independent supporting evidence is not an attempt to establish reality, it's an attempt to negate it. In the absence of that, simplistic, argumentative dismissals fail to refute their testimony. End of story.
- The radar data in conjunction with other electronic evidence also establishes the presence of jets at the Twin Towers. In order to refute this, the refutation must attempt to explain how the radar data is wrong, and/or how people interpreting it were fooled. Simple handwaves of the supposed omnipotence of the government are NOT sufficient. On top of that, refutations of this must also not contradict the witness statements, so taking the easy way out by saying records were faked is insufficient in the face of eyewitness testimony (see above) unless the explanation for how they were faked is somehow made consistent with what witnesses saw. And then, it still must agree with the other lines of evidence following.
- The aircraft debris by itself establishes the presence of jets in the area. Refutations to this must not contradict with both the radar/electronic evidence given above, and with the eyewitness testimonies.
- Video evidence (Google these for yourselves). This also establishes the presence of jets in the area, and above and beyond that, is replayable and can be used to pick out details that a real-time eyewitness wouldn't have had time to discern. Refutations to this, like above, can not contradict the previous lines of evidence.
Now, if truthers want to have a productive, sensible conversation, then they must take all that into account. This is because the above is the bar that logic sets; it's not a requirement that I or anyone else generates. Explanations must take into account all lines of evidence. If they do not, they fail, pure and simple. And they fail because they not only do not account for what is know, but are contradicted by it.
Explain the event now using the totality of the evidnece. And put away with this senseless distortion of irrelevant details. Not only is that mere argumentiveness for the sake of being disruptive, it fails to address what's known and established.
Elmondo,
You are slipping. Your repitition of claims that have been refuted six ways to Sunday does not reflect well upon posting.
In each of the 4 claims you are making, there has been substantial refutation clearly and visibly posted and sourced.
By way of non-exhaustive example:
1--The debunker website you rely on for witnesses is of very poor quality. It contains but two signficant sources of witnesses; PAPD and TASK FORCE statements. Each of those two sources contain, in the aggregate, more NO PLANE accounts than PLANE SPOT accounts.
2--The radar data is hopelessly compromised by the fact that there was no way to distinguish real blips from exercise blips. For instance, we all know that Air traffic controller Pete Zalewski was the one who thought he recognized a foreign, Middle Eastern-sounding voice, but does not make out the specific words that are attributed to the conversation he overheard, namely, the famous “we have some planes” declaration.
Zalewski did however respond saying: “Who’s trying to call me?” Seconds later, in the next transmission, the transmission includes: “Nobody move. Everything will be OK. If you try to make any moves you’ll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet,” according to the 9/11 Commission and mainstream media stallwart MSNBC, 9/9/2006.
But Bill Peacock, the FAA director of air traffic services, (confirmed by the FAA transcript) later says:
“We didn’t know where the transmission came from, what was said and who said it.”
And, David Canoles, the FAA’s manager of air traffic evaluations and investigations, adds:
“The broadcast wasn’t attributed to a flight. Nobody gave a flight number.”
The FAA report that is the source of the radar claims simply says with respect to these claimed transmissions that they came from:
“an unknown origin.”
See: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/faa7.pdf
pg. 4/59
Similarly, the radar data itself could not be distinguished, "real" from "exercise."
I have elsewhere said as follows about the matter of the radar and the military exercises:
"The significance of the MILITARY EXERCISES is that they are a means by which the events of 9/11 could actually have been carried out if they were disguised as exercises, but were, in fact "real."
The tapes confirm that the difference between what was "real" and what was "exercise" was not readily discernible."
For purposes of information, the FAA report that is the basis of the radar claims can be found at:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB165/faa7.pdf
As you can see, for instance at pg. 4/59, much of the information was "of unknown origin."
3--The debris issue is one of the weakest and most absurd of all of the claims. Not one single piece of aircraft debris was identified by part number, thus confirming that all claims concerning debris are utterly and completely useless as evidence. Does anyone here have any difficulty understanding the words "utterly and completely useless as evidence?
I hope not.
4--As to video. That is what this thread is about. It is very clear that posters here cannot, will not and certainly have not responded to the many posts that have been put into this thread showing that the shadow thingy does not behave as a jetliner would behave, is eratic and inconsistent from one video to the next, is not seen at all in some and always explodes in the wrong place and at the wrong time and never sounds like a widebody jetliner <1000ft above street level at 550mph.
The video is a clear indicator of 9/11 fraud and deception. And, as we clearly know, the witnesses who were present and accounted for almost uniformly report an explosion and not a plane crash.
That about does it for your post, Elmondo.
Do better, if you can.
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