Helen Thomas resigns over remarks

[Thunder]

There is clearly a great deal of misunderstanding and miscommunication going on in this thread. Is it purposeful? Who knows.

 

[Pardalis]

I like chocolate ice cream. You like vanilla. Which is correct?

That's taste, not opinion.

The misunderstanding is you own.

 

[Thunder]

Does Helen Thomas have the right to want ALL Israelis to go back to where they came from? Sure.

Does that mean you have to like it? No.

Is there anything you can or should do to change her mind? Not really.

Now back to more important things. Ta ta.

 

[Pardalis]

Does Helen Thomas have the right to want ALL Israelis to go back to where they came from? Sure.

Does that mean you have to like it? No.

Is there anything you can or should do to change her mind? Not really.

Now back to more important things. Ta ta.

Why aren't you this tolerant and accommodating to the "right wing Zionists" you keep debating with on these boards?

 

[DC]

Why aren't you this tolerant and accommodating to the "right wing Zionists" you keep debating with on these boards?

well i do it to try to understand their point of view, and sometimes to explain them my point of view.

ETA: would i not understand their point of view at least a bit, without even agreeing with it, i would find it extremely racist and bigot to say no to a right of return to Palestinians that fled.

 

[Pardalis]

well i do it to try to understand their point of view, and sometimes to explain them my point of view.

I'm sorry, is your username "Thunder"?

 

[DC]

I'm sorry, is your username "Thunder"?

no, parky

 

[Skeptic]

It tells us something that murderous, morally abysmal movements like most Arab nationalist ones, Jihadism, etc., are seen by the usual gang as "liberation" movements, while zionism is seen as illegitimate.

 

[Skeptic]

Why aren't you this tolerant and accommodating to the "right wing Zionists" you keep debating with on these boards?

Because they are Jews.

Different rules apply.

How many times do we have to tell you?

 

[RhodyDave]

Why do people think attributing great discoveries and inventions by individuals to ethnic groups and nationalities is meaningful or useful? Is it a belief that by merely sharing a country or DNA with a genius, members of a grouping the genius belongs to can legitimately expect to have some reflected glory and thanks?

Way to miss the point.

What the article is doing is point out value of a group of peoples who have been persecuted, executed, vilified, and hated throughout their long history. What the article points out is that although there have been many attempts across the centuries to eradicate the Jews, the Jews have continued to be great contributors to the health, productivity, and happiness of many of the very people who would persecute them.

The article points out the historic scope of how and why Jews founded the nation of Israel. It points out the hypocrisy of the "Palestinian" claim to land that they never wanted until Israel existed. Please try to see through your veil of bigotry towards the Jews and attempt to see things clearly.

 

[Pardalis]

Because they are Jews.

Different rules apply.

How many times do we have to tell you?

But the board members who Thunder describes as "right-wing Zionists", which he always argues against are not all Jewish.

He has no problem confronting their opinions vehemently, but he is suddenly very understanding of Thomas' different "opinion", he says that it should be understood in perspective, and that it's not all that important.

 

[Thunder]

But the board members who Thunder describes as "right-wing Zionists", which he always argues against are not all Jewish.

one need not be Jewish to be a Zionist. VP Joe Biden calls himself a Zionist. one need not be Jewish to even be a right-wing Zionist extremist.

I see many non-Jewish right-wing Zionists on the tv and in the papers all the time. One might even argue there are more of them, than Jewish ones.

Unlike Neo-Nazis, I do not use "Zionist" as a code word for Jews. Nor do I believe that anti-Zionism is always anti-Semitic.

 

[Adrian Lopez]

Because they are Jews.

Different rules apply.

That one again? If you at least had evidence of your claim other than people criticizing Israel's actions without simultaneously criticizing every other single act they consider wrong.

 

[Pardalis]

one need not be Jewish to be a Zionist. VP Joe Biden calls himself a Zionist. one need not be Jewish to even be a right-wing Zionist extremist.

I see many non-Jewish right-wing Zionists on the tv and in the papers all the time. One might even argue there are more of them, than Jewish ones.

Unlike Neo-Nazis, I do not use "Zionist" as a code word for Jews. Nor do I believe that anti-Zionism is always anti-Semitic.

Then why do you debate them so much here? If you think opinions can't be debated, then it's their opinion, and you should be accepting right? just as you are so accepting of Thomas' abhorrent claim.

ETA: everytime anyone says anything pro-Israeli you argue against them endlessly, even hurl insults at them, but Thomas' claim was 'just her opinion', this is a 'free country', 'opinions are opinions', there are 'more important things'...

 

[Thunder]

ETA: everytime anyone says anything pro-Israeli you argue against them endlessly, even hurl insults at them,

funny. I consider myself and my views to be very "pro-Israel".

 

[Pardalis]

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Way to miss the point.

What the article is doing is point out value of a group of peoples who have been persecuted, executed, vilified, and hated throughout their long history. What the article points out is that although there have been many attempts across the centuries to eradicate the Jews, the Jews have continued to be great contributors to the health, productivity, and happiness of many of the very people who would persecute them.

You're doing it now as well. The Jews did not do those things, individuals who also happened to be Jewish did. The fact that many of these individuals suffered because others were prejudiced against them because of their ethnicity makes their individual achievements and behaviour even more remarkable.

The article points out the historic scope of how and why Jews founded the nation of Israel. It points out the hypocrisy of the "Palestinian" claim to land that they never wanted until Israel existed. Please try to see through your veil of bigotry towards the Jews and attempt to see things clearly.

If you had been reading my posts and understanding them, what you would have gathered is that I think all parties involved in the dispute are as bad as each other and that the situation will be resolved when one or both sides gets fed up with the bloodshed. I don't think that will be in my lifetime.

 

[RhodyDave]

You're doing it now as well. The Jews did not do those things, individuals who also happened to be Jewish did. The fact that many of these individuals suffered because others were prejudiced against them because of their ethnicity makes their individual achievements and behaviour even more remarkable.



If you had been reading my posts and understanding them, what you would have gathered is that I think all parties involved in the dispute are as bad as each other and that the situation will be resolved when one or both sides gets fed up with the bloodshed. I don't think that will be in my lifetime.

You can't separate any single Jew from the entirety of Judaism. That's an odd type of distinguishing "good" from "bad", in my opinion.

I really take issue with your equating the actions of Israel with those of terrorists. It seems the more you try to rationalize your bigotry, the more apparent it becomes. Israel has tried on numerous occasions to make lasting peace with the "Palestinians", yet every single time, the leaders of the "Palestinians" have refused. The bloodshed is desired by only one side; the "Palestinians".

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

You can't separate any single Jew from the entirety of Judaism. That's an odd type of distinguishing "good" from "bad", in my opinion.

I admit it is odd for me (and some other English people) not to take pride in the performance of the English football team, or not attributing Wayne Rooney's achievements as being partly down to me.

I really take issue with your equating the actions of Israel with those of terrorists. It seems the more you try to rationalize your bigotry, the more apparent it becomes. Israel has tried on numerous occasions to make lasting peace with the "Palestinians", yet every single time, the leaders of the "Palestinians" have refused. The bloodshed is desired by only one side; the "Palestinians".

Thanks for making my point about Israelis and Palestinians being as bad as each other.

 

[GrouchoMarxist]

Well, if I were going to recommend a book that puts Jewish history and secular history side-by-side, it would be Max I. Dimont's "Jews, God and History."

I would also recommend reading Mark Twain's "Innocents Abroad" (1869) wherein he describes traveling through the area. This is one telling paragraph:

"Stirring scenes like these occur in this valley no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent--not for thirty miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride ten miles, hereabouts, and not see ten human beings."

About Jerusalem, he wrote:

"The population of Jerusalem is composed of Moslems, Jews, Greeks, Latins, Armenians, Syrians, Copts, Abyssinians, Greek Catholics, and a handful of Protestants. One hundred of the latter sect are all that dwell now in this birthplace of Christianity. The nice shades of nationality comprised in the above list, and the languages spoken by them, are altogether too numerous to mention. It seems to me that all the races and colors and tongues of the earth must be represented among the fourteen thousand souls that dwell in Jerusalem. Rags, wretchedness, poverty and dirt, those signs and symbols that indicate the presence of Moslem rule more surely than the crescent-flag itself, abound. Lepers, cripples, the blind, and the idiotic, assail you on every hand, and they know but one word of but one language apparently--the eternal "bucksheesh." To see the numbers of maimed, malformed and diseased humanity that throng the holy places and obstruct the gates, one might suppose that the ancient days had come again, and that the angel of the Lord was expected to descend at any moment to stir the waters of Bethesda. Jerusalem is mournful, and dreary, and lifeless. I would not desire to live here." (Emphasis added.)

Fourteen thousand people. Not very many - even for 1869.

And the land lay fallow and unproductive.

I believe land belongs to those who purchase or win it and make it productive. Solar water heaters, cherry tomatoes, drip irrigation systems, USB flash drives, and the pillcam endoscope (a camera which is swallowed, making colon examinations far less painful and intrusive) - all invented by Israelis. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Thanks, that book by Dimont looks like a very interesting read, so I ordered a copy from amazon.

Here's more from Mark twain: Concerning The Jews
I'm sure you're familiar with that one, but others here may not be. It's worth a look.

"All that I care to know is that a man is a human being - that is enough for me; he can't be any worse."