Helen Thomas resigns over remarks

[DC]

Well, if I were going to recommend a book that puts Jewish history and secular history side-by-side, it would be Max I. Dimont's "Jews, God and History."

I would also recommend reading Mark Twain's "Innocents Abroad" (1869) wherein he describes traveling through the area. This is one telling paragraph:

"Stirring scenes like these occur in this valley no more. There is not a solitary village throughout its whole extent--not for thirty miles in either direction. There are two or three small clusters of Bedouin tents, but not a single permanent habitation. One may ride ten miles, hereabouts, and not see ten human beings."

About Jerusalem, he wrote:

"The population of Jerusalem is composed of Moslems, Jews, Greeks, Latins, Armenians, Syrians, Copts, Abyssinians, Greek Catholics, and a handful of Protestants. One hundred of the latter sect are all that dwell now in this birthplace of Christianity. The nice shades of nationality comprised in the above list, and the languages spoken by them, are altogether too numerous to mention. It seems to me that all the races and colors and tongues of the earth must be represented among the fourteen thousand souls that dwell in Jerusalem. Rags, wretchedness, poverty and dirt, those signs and symbols that indicate the presence of Moslem rule more surely than the crescent-flag itself, abound. Lepers, cripples, the blind, and the idiotic, assail you on every hand, and they know but one word of but one language apparently--the eternal "bucksheesh." To see the numbers of maimed, malformed and diseased humanity that throng the holy places and obstruct the gates, one might suppose that the ancient days had come again, and that the angel of the Lord was expected to descend at any moment to stir the waters of Bethesda. Jerusalem is mournful, and dreary, and lifeless. I would not desire to live here." (Emphasis added.)

Fourteen thousand people. Not very many - even for 1869.

And the land lay fallow and unproductive.

I believe land belongs to those who purchase or win it and make it productive. Solar water heaters, cherry tomatoes, drip irrigation systems, USB flash drives, and the pillcam endoscope (a camera which is swallowed, making colon examinations far less painful and intrusive) - all invented by Israelis. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

So you was supporting Saddam in his "nation building" in Quwait?
im sure when we had let him win he could have increased productivity there.

and why did we hinder the Nazis from their "nation building"?

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

In that case, most of Europe actually belongs to Nazi Germany.

Perhaps you missed the bit where most of the rest of Europe disagreed with the Nazis about who owned which bits of land and killed Germans until they gave up their claims on the land they won previously.

That's what humans do when we believe we own land and can draw a line around it, whether they be they descended from Lucy, Isaac or Ishmael.

 

[DC]

i wonder if Hamas together with Iran and some others would magically be able to beat the IDF, thus win a war, if we all would accept their win and welcome them with their new nation "greater Palestina". Some people here have very strange ideas.

 

[Skeptic]

who would that be?
quotes of those poeple pls?

I am not allowed to do that here since that would count as "personalizing the discussion". But go and read this thread from the first page and see for yourself.

 

[Skeptic]

Perhaps you missed the bit where most of the rest of Europe disagreed with the Nazis about who owned which bits of land and killed Germans until they gave up their claims on the land they won previously.

So your view is, "might makes right"? If only Nazi Germany happened to be stronger than the allies, it would have had a right to create a new empire where all non-Aryans are slaves or exterminated?

 

[DC]

I am not allowed to do that here since that would count as "personalizing the discussion". But go and read this thread from the first page and see for yourself.

LOL thats a nice excuse, really, its a lie, but still nice excuse.

 

[DC]

So your view is, "might makes right"? If only Nazi Germany happened to be stronger than the allies, it would have had a right to create a new empire where all non-Aryans are slaves or exterminated?

well that how it was explained in this very thread.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

So your view is, "might makes right"? If only Nazi Germany happened to be stronger than the allies, it would have had a right to create a new empire where all non-Aryans are slaves or exterminated?

Yes. The history books would have been written and the maps drawn of the Nazi super state in a way that made sure children were educated to believe that they were right, just as the Israelis and Palestinians have done in the past and are doing now with their children.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

This thread makes me feel glad my ethnic heritage is so diverse.

 

[Thunder]

So your view is, "might makes right"? If only Nazi Germany happened to be stronger than the allies, it would have had a right to create a new empire where all non-Aryans are slaves or exterminated?

do not many right-wing extremist Zionists argue that Israel's control of the West Bank and the Golan is "right", because Israel won these lands under the law of "Blood and Iron" aka "Blut und Eisen"?

what's good for the goose of Israel..is good for the European gander..right Skeptic?

 

[RhodyDave]

So you was supporting Saddam in his "nation building" in Quwait?
im sure when we had let him win he could have increased productivity there.

and why did we hinder the Nazis from their "nation building"?

Well, there it is! Comparison of Jews/Israel to Nazis. Congratulations! You win the award for Most Egregiously Ignorant Analogy.

 

[DC]

Well, there it is! Comparison of Jews/Israel to Nazis. Congratulations! You win the award for Most Egregiously Ignorant Analogy.

maybe you should have added the other things that matter to you to support "Nation building".

 

[RhodyDave]

Here is an excellent response to the thinking that Helen Thomas shares with so many others. It summarizes the history of the issue very well.

http://www.jewlicious.com/2010/06/get-the-hell-out-of-my-face/

 

[Adrian Lopez]

So you feel the Israeli motives go beyond self preservation, in their dealings with the palestinians, is that accurate?
Do Israelis value something the palestinians have - such as land - more than peace, in your opinion?

I don't doubt that self-preservation plays a role in the choices they've made, but I also think it serves as a convenient excuse for the Israeli annexation of Palestinian land.

 

[Adrian Lopez]

So you agree that Helen Thomas' remark was appalling?

It depends on how the words are interpreted. If taken literally as "Jews should be deported to Germany and Poland", then yes, they are appalling. If taken as a poorly chosen remark expressing the sentiment that Israel's establishment was essentially a kind of theft, then her words are still appalling on the surface but are also misunderstood.

 

[Adrian Lopez]

So everything Israel does in self defense is a crime?

Is that what I said? I seem to have an amazing talent for saying things I never actually said.

 

[Adrian Lopez]

It's getting harder and harder to distinguish the "progressives" and the murderous Jihadis. So far as I can tell, the main disagreement is whether it is practical or not to actually butcher and expel all the Jews.

When you speak of those who disagree on whether it's "practical or not to butcher all the Jews", do you mean that to apply to the Jihadists alone, or to both the Jihadists and the '"progressives"' that you speak of? I'm hoping you're not so deluded as to think that people like Helen Thomas advocate the extermination of the Jewish people.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

whether they be they descended from Lucy, Isaac or Ishmael.

"Excuse me, are you a Jew?"

"Call me Ishmael!"

 

[Pardalis]

It depends on how the words are interpreted.

Can't you answer a simple question?

If taken literally as "Jews should be deported to Germany and Poland", then yes, they are appalling.

That's exactly what she said.

Then why do you keep defending her in this thread?

To all those proudly standing by Helen Thomas against the evil, censoring zionists, you can take comfort in the fact that Hizbullah officially endorsed her comments, too.

Hizbullah called her "go back to Poland" comments about the Jews as "a courageous, bold, and honest opinion".

Which is precisely what some of the usual gang here said about it.

who would that be?
quotes of those poeple pls?

There you go DC, here's one of them:

If taken as a poorly chosen remark expressing the sentiment that Israel's establishment was essentially a kind of theft, then her words are still appalling on the surface but are also misunderstood.

 

[Adrian Lopez]

Can't you answer a simple question?

Can't you see that I did? It's not exactly hard to miss when the answer to the question follows the very sentence you've cited.

That's exactly what she said.

I know what she said. I'm far more concerned about what she meant.